Evidence for your faith/belief ?
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Shalom Aleikhem,
The way I always saw it, faith and belief are not the same. Faith is a form of belief that depends on some form of evidence to justify itself.
I was wondering how the members of this website justify their belief/faith in Allah. You can write as much as you like, or as little as you like. Reasons can range from blind-faith to Code-29.... I just need to learn about your perceptions, views and justifications for your belief in Allah.
It can be subjective or objective.
Peace
------------- Student of Allah -
I thought faith was defined as belief without any evidence (or not much), otherwise if you have evidence then it's just simply belief. Hence why atheist hate being called having a 'faith' because they see their way of thinking as logic.
This is the one I found ala google
- strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
But that's semantics anyway, to answer your question. My faith has always come from the Quran itself. I just can't see such a beautiful piece of art, poetry and song all in one book that is so consistent and never contradicts itself. And the great thing is, if you pick up any Quran anywhere and compare it to another, the arabic is always exactly the same (give or take a few pronunciation things) proving Allah's vow to protect it.
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Faith can also be seen / treated as 'hope'..
Hope doesn't necessarily need an 'evidence'.. and the actual instantiation of 'faith' can change over time.. yet it shall continue to give 'hope' and a 'reason to keep on'...Faithless people are hopeless.. and when they have lost their faith / hope, they shall see no reason to live on.. and perform deed like this http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku
That's why for me it's 'mind boggling' to hear other people bashing each other heads on 'difference of faith'... because each and every one of us has different faith anyway..
While to me the presence of "The Ultimate Power Of All Universes" which in arabic symbolized / referred to as Allah, while in Hebrew referred to as YHVH and many other names in different cultures, it is not 'faith'/'belief', it is a fact...
Salam / Peace
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Would like to add one more thing
The real objective of the Quran (and Gospel and others) is NOT to show / prove that there is an "Ultimate Power Of All Universes Who Is In Control Of All Things"
BUT
Is to give reassurance / hope to it's audience that "Ultimate Power Of All Universes Who Is In Control Of All Things" care for you and didn't overlook any single thing which happened to you or the things that you do inthis life on earth. And you can reach Him/It directly and He/It shall answer to your call. Thus don't give up hope.. keep on struggling and striving..
As everyone shall be rewarded accordingly to their deed (and not faith).
Salam / Peace
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I reached a stage in my life where I needed spiritual comfort, so I started doing research and study on "God". I finally came to the conclusion that I could neither prove or disprove the existence of "God". I decided that if the existence of a higher power (known in English as "God" was in fact true then I had more to lose by not believing than by believing. I reasoned that by taking a leap of faith and believing in "God" I stood to gain a lot more than if I disbelieved. Through believing in "God" I had hope that I could become a better person, could overcome my addictions, could begin to love myself more fully, get my life together, and be a good role model for my family. At the same time, I would be saved from the hellfire and have a peaceful and happy life in the hereafter. That was a lot of pluses!! I had been unable to make those changes on my own. I thought I would have a better chance with a "higher power " on my side. But first I had to find a way around a mental block that I had about the patriarchal nature of the term "God". I started using non gender specific language eg. The Almighty to talk about my concept of "God". After reflecting on this higher power, I felt that it could only exist in a concentrated form of "One" and not as a fragmented form of multiple energies. This was not just a rational thought but a feeling that came from deep within my soul. In 2003, I made the decision to believe in and worship "God" Alone, and at that time I wrote a short paper to myself on the reasons I had come to that decision. At one point, while writing, I just fell to my knees and began repenting to "God" for my sins and imploring "God" for forgiveness, and I prayed that I would be guided to a religion that worshipped "God" Alone.
A week later, I put "worship God Alone" in my browser and found Submission.org on the internet and I became a Submitter. Since that time, my Submission to "God" and my worship practices have been ever evolving as my knowledge grows through "God's" guidance. My belief has only grown stronger over the years as I now understand the miracles "God" has wrought in my life and the ways in which "God" has answered my prayers. All Praise and Glory to the Most High, The Almighty, the Best Provider, Forgiver, Most Merciful, Seer of all Things, Knower of the Future, the Most Sacred, Initiator of the Heavens and the Earth and all that is within them. -
It is funny to see so many people having come into the quran-alone fold through the submission website.
I too found my way through that place. Actually I was convinced through the code 19... I took it as proof of divine authorship.... but now I cannot decide anymore due to the lengthy debates.... but it matters not... I still have Allah.I think I have always had it in me. I was not raised in a religious home. I hate when people promote things like religions, so I would have just resisted more if someone would have tried to convert me to something.
I "just cant help" believing in Allah... I have not solid arguments... it just come naturally to me.... although I constantly work hard on my faith as I find it too weak to what I would like it to be...
Peace
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peace be with you guys as well,
I too found about following the Quran alone through submission.orgI was once an athiest/agnostic, i kind of rest it as, you can't prove or disprove God.
Then i went through ha crisis, and out of nowhere i started to Pray to God. That's when i believed in God. I then knew God Existed. I Knew. The "veil" was taken off.if you want "evidence" then look into the scientific facts that could be derived from the Quran, from big bangs, expansion of the universe, big crunch, black holes, etc...
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Thank you everyone for sharing your views on the subject. I am waiting to read more posts from you and other members of the site.
Peace
--------------- Student of Allah -
peace be with you as well
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Shalom Aleikhem,
peace be with you as well
By the way, you have actually attempted at giving us a hint towards non-subjective reasoning for your faith. Would you mind demonstrating that with evidence ? May be in a new thread if you so wish ?
Peace
---------- Student of Allah -
salaam/peace all,
http//www.quran434.com/Does-God-Exist.pdf
Shalom Aleikhem,
Thanks for sharing that although I already read that long time back. Probably you shared the link in some other topic somewhere in any of the past threads.
I was thinking about starting an investigation on the scientific part of that pdf. Not only the ones you mentioned, there are even more. How much of it is real, and how much is the twisting of words and their meaning to derive a desired outcome. It would be nice to put them to the test.
Peace
------------ Student of Allah -
Salaam Student of Allah I was thinking the same thing.
There are not only 2 options for how the Quran came to be written - a 3rd option is extra terrestials - other forms of intelligent life! JUst because we can't think of other options doesn't mean they don't exist.
It could also be argued by Christians that their Bible brought about the unity of savage tribes (even more savage than the Bedouins!) For example the Maori tribes in Aotearoa-New Zealand were cannibals who gave up such practices as a result of converting to christianity. Also there is still a lot of tribalism practised in Islamic countries and this still causes conflicts and imbalances of power, so the unity is not to the same extent as Christianized western societies who are completely detribalised.
It's my understanding that in fact Mohammed was not illiterate as claimed by corrupted Muslims and popular literary works especially rhyme and poetry are not always the product of academic achievers.
How can we be certain that the reference to the moon splitting is a metaphor? On judgement day perhaps the mountains will literally crumble and the moon will literally split. Or it could also split in the future from other as yet unknown forces in space. Or could the splitting refer to an eclipse that covered half the moon?
The preserved body of Pharoah - preserving bodies was the custom of the Egyptians, so it is not hard to conclude that the bodies would be around in the future.
O you jinns and humans ...... people who believe in spirits also believe they inhabit the heavens, the earth, the trees etc its a big leap to hypothesise that this can only refer to space travel.
The Quran is fully preserved and intact - where are the parchments that Mohamed wrote on? Who put the first Quran together as we know it today - was it Mohammed? Where is that first Quran? Was it burnt? What year is the earliest Quran (in Istanbul? in Yemen?) dated?
Islam is the fastest growing religion - is that True Islam (i.e the original form of Islam "worshipping of God Alone" or the corrupted Islam - the idol worshipping religion of Mohammedism?
2885 Many refugees have the hope and determination that one day they will triumph and return home in a much better condition than when they left.Re no scientific information proven to be incorrect - just taking one of these examples - the embryo- would the stages of development be obvious when dissecting human remains in various stages of pregnancy? Isn't fluid (sperm) also a reasonably obvious connection to pregnancy even for people who lived 1,400 years ago. People in those days could navigate as accurately as we do now through their knowledge of the stars, prevailing winds etc. People (or extra terrestials!) from even earlier times had the mathmatical and scientific knowledge to build the pyraimids and Stone henge. Mathematics, especially numerology was their fundamental way of seeing the world. People of the past knew all the medicinal qualities of their native plants - people of the past were extremely knowledgeable in so many ways! So much of this knowledge has now been been lost, that we are not even aware of it's existence.
I am not disputing the authenticity of the Quran as the word of God, just the examples that have been given to "prove" this.
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I have always had the idea that God existed since I was a small child but never had what could be called "evidence" until I really started reading Intelligent Design arguments and that set a light off in my head/heart, so to speak. Intelligent Design is a completely rational, logical, scientific based argument for the existence of our Creator that is not dependent upon any kind of Scripture.
The only absolutely irrefutable evidence for God would be to see Him personally but that is not something we can do in this universe. It really comes down to a preponderance of the circumstantial evidence available to us, IMO. Some call that faith or belief and it depends on how much "evidence" an individual looks at or uses for the surety of such faith. For me, the structure of universe, the structure of our bodies and all living things, DNA, the structure of cells, microbiology, biology and chemistry all point towards a Creator. I always viewed the argument that there is an irreducible complexity to these things that random, purposeless, chance cannot account for. Hence the only rational, logical conclusion is God exists and He is the Creator. (this is a very abbreviated argument here)
Some very good, short, easily readable books on this is Darwins Black Box by Michael Behe and Signs of Itelligence by Behe and James Kushiner. They are scientists who put forth a non theological, scientific argument for the existence of a Creator and they make it easy for the average reader to understand the science behind it. For me, they were, among some other books too, absolutely profound in cementing my belief in the existence of God.
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The only absolutely irrefutable evidence for God would be to see Him personally but that is not something we can do in this universe.
Really?? And why is that?
How do you think 'we can see or cannot see' God?
And why do you think we cannot do it in this universe? thus it's possible in other universe?
And what is "God" to you? -
Really?? And why is that?
How do you think 'we can see or cannot see' God?
And why do you think we cannot do it in this universe? thus it's possible in other universe?
And what is "God" to you?So when Moses came to Our appointed time, and his Lord spoke to him, he said "My Lord, let me look upon you." He said "You will not see Me, but look upon the mountain, if it stays in its place then you will see Me." So when his Lord revealed Himself to the mountain, He made it crumble; thus Moses fell unconscious. When he awoke, he said "Glory be to You, I repent to You and I am the first of those who believe." (7143)
Similarly 531-18, 255, 4153
God is our Creator, the Almighty etc. Is that a trick question?
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Whether something exists or not can only be relative to something beyond existence altogether. That something (i.e. absolute reality/truth) is given the name "God".
Rephrased All things are born and they die. For this to happen there must be something unborn and deathless to witness & control these creations and destructions. We call this God.
Rephrase again All change happens against an unchanging background.Ch114 of the quran wraps this up eloquently All things depend on one uncreated self to which nothing can be equal to nor does it create equals. See the redundancy? You can reduce this to 'one absolute uncreated self'.
The flaw of non-belief or agnosticism is that they assume non-reality to be the absolute reality then wonder how this "came out of nothing".
Does not man see that We have created him from the small seed? Then lo! he is an open disputant.
And he strikes out a likeness for Us and forgets his own creation. Says he Who will give life to the bones when they are rotten?You don't need anything more than this to be certain of God. All one must do is rewind their life back to birth and look at the emptiness behind that. To grasp this is to grasp peace. In Zen there is a saying What does your face look like before you are born?
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I have always had the idea that God existed since I was a small child but never had what could be called "evidence" until I really started reading Intelligent Design arguments and that set a light off in my head/heart, so to speak. Intelligent Design is a completely rational, logical, scientific based argument for the existence of our Creator that is not dependent upon any kind of Scripture.
The only absolutely irrefutable evidence for God would be to see Him personally but that is not something we can do in this universe. It really comes down to a preponderance of the circumstantial evidence available to us, IMO. Some call that faith or belief and it depends on how much "evidence" an individual looks at or uses for the surety of such faith. For me, the structure of universe, the structure of our bodies and all living things, DNA, the structure of cells, microbiology, biology and chemistry all point towards a Creator. I always viewed the argument that there is an irreducible complexity to these things that random, purposeless, chance cannot account for. Hence the only rational, logical conclusion is God exists and He is the Creator. (this is a very abbreviated argument here)
Some very good, short, easily readable books on this is Darwins Black Box by Michael Behe and Signs of Itelligence by Behe and James Kushiner. They are scientists who put forth a non theological, scientific argument for the existence of a Creator and they make it easy for the average reader to understand the science behind it. For me, they were, among some other books too, absolutely profound in cementing my belief in the existence of God.
Shalom Aleikhem,
I am teleporting this to another thread which is more appropriate for discussing that. Meet me there if you wish. I will reply to your comment there.
Link Evolution or Intelligent design ?
Peace
---------- Student of Allah
