Let's discuss Hoarding

Aryan_Warrior

Hoarding is condemned in the Quran

934 "O you who believe, many of the Priests and Monks consume people's money in falsehood, and they turn away from the path of God. And those who hoard gold and silver, and do not spend it in the cause of God, give them news of a painful retribution."

Well what I want to discuss today is what kind of hoarding is forbidden?

The above said hoarding gold and silver AND not spending it in the name of God is bad. This is what I am getting from it as in you can have wealth saved up but still make sure you spend too and thus the idea of simply accumulating wealth with no intent on spending in the name if God is bad.

The idea i've realized is further supported by how Prophets like Solomon had his kingdom as wealth and fancy horses or how Joseph saved up food for later use (I think it was him at least) and we ecen got verse stating how treasure is here for us to enjoy

314 "It has been adorned for people to love the desire of women, buildings, ornaments made from gold and silver, trained horses, the livestock, and fields. These are the enjoyment of the world, and with God is the best place of return."

So I decided to look up the definition of hoarding

" hoard (h?rd, h rd)
n. A hidden fund or supply stored for future use; a cache

. v. hoard?ed, hoard?ing, hoards

v.intr. To gather or accumulate a hoard.
v.tr. 1. To accumulate a hoard of.
2. To keep hidden or private.

If we were to go by those terms of absolutely no hoarding is allowed then we can't save money for rainy day, for future plans such as a better home or better TV or for your childs fund. Heck even a bank account would not be allowed as its where we keep our money and use it to later buy more food or other things. This would also mean people like Solomon and Jospeh have sinned for keeping treasure and gathering food for the future.

This is why I believe 934 above shows us that with the word AND that its hoarding+ not spending on charity or in the name of God is what is not allowed. This is what Qarun did. He had a ton of money but refused to give a dime of it to the people.

Thus I believe we can have nice things as Solomon did with his horses and kingdom while using his money also in the name of God. As well saving money or stuff for later as Jospeh did with food but still also spent his money in the name of God.

I myself give half of my excess after my paycheck is done to my mother for her to use however she wishes as that is also a form of charity stated in the Quran while the other half of my excess goes to be saved for future use on something nice like video games, buying new film gear (planning to start that as i'm oushing further into the. Film industry) and food and such.

My father also likes to pay me a bit of money each week too which I normally don't include as money to be spent on charity as its simply a gift for buying things as I wish

Of course I am not saying i'm 100% correct and would like your opinions on it too.

mirjamnur

Salam Aryan warrior

Surah 104 - Amount of Verses 9

1041

WOE unto every slanderer, fault-finder!
1042

he shall indeed be abandoned to crushing torment!
1045

And what could make thee conceive what that crushing torment will be?
1046

A fire kindled by God,
1047

which will rise over the hearts
1048

verily, it will close in upon them
1049

in endless columns!

I also believe that hoarding without giving something is the described sin. God gives us Risq and tests people with poverty and wealth. It is a test of how we deal with too much money or too little money. peace peace

Jafar

934 is a great verse because it highlight the common behavior which constantly shown by religious people up until now.

Let's dig into it one by one

The priests consume money (donation) by spreading terror falsehood, hatred and lies..
And they just don't like it when somebody challenges their lies 'version of truth', because the lies within will be easily exposed. Thus it will ruined their image / charisma. Without 'image' / 'charisma' it will be hard for them to spread more hatred and lies make money...

From economy perspective
They consume something from the society without giving back real value to the society, although they're not among those who are weak or impaired.

It's only permissible when the person is in state of 'helplessness' (elderly, weak, impaired) spending money to those folks is considered as 'charity'.. and it's a good deed as it help people in needs (serving them).

Hoarding Gold and Silver and DO NOT SPEND
As I mentioned in many thread before.. money by itself in whatever form (Gold, Silver, Seashells, Magnetic Field, Hole in a Disc, Pigs, Feathers, Paper) does not have any real value. Money shall be valuable if and only if it was being exchanged, and as part of that exchange there's a real value being created / transferred.

Many of you have heard about 'economy crisis'..
And what's the essence / root cause of 'economy crisis'?

It's simple.. it's when people do not spend their money... (in whatever form)
They stack it up thinking that 'money' has a real value, perhaps thinking that money will save them in 'bad future'...

When money is not being exchanged, business will go down and people start to lose jobs...
The whole society shall stop 'creating value'..
In simpler term the whole society stop 'serving each others'...

And what's the opposite? It's known as 'economy boom'..
It's when people spending money (in the valuable manner) the whole society 'value production' shall goes up and people 'serve each others'...

Then.. how about robbery? stealing? why it is bad?
Because robbery / stealing is earning money without giving real value back to the society..
A society full of robber / thieves shall not 'serve each others' they will continuously rob / steal from each others.. until there's no more left to rob or steal.. The whole 'value creation cycle' of the society shall become near zero..... and they will start killing each others due to the lack of needed resources...(which posses the real value)

Thus back to answer your question..
"Spending money for something nice like video games, buying new film gear, food" is ok... it improves the economy and people shall produce more food, video games, film gear etc..

But don't forget.. you need to earn the money that you spend by producing a real value back to the society..
It's the 'value that you give to the society' that matter and not the money..
When people are busy 'serving each other' (read doing business/exchanging real value through mediation of money) they will stop thinking about war or inflicting pain to others..

Salam / Peace

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

There is a difference between stockpiling and hoarding.

Stockpiling is done in times of plenty, such as storing grain in times of plenty for future difficulty. This is sensible and without harm to others. Stockpiling is ethical.

Hoarding is done in times of difficulty or when resources are limited, and exacerbates the situation for others. Hoarding of this sort is taking more than one is entitled/allowed to or able to use. Hoarding may or may not be legal, but it is not ethical.

The function of money is to circulate.

2567 And those who when they give they are not excessive nor stingy, but they are in a measure between that.

2215 They ask you what they should spend, say "What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, GOD is fully aware of it."

2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much they are to give, say "The excess." It is thus that GOD clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Aryan_Warrior

I also believe that hoarding without giving something is the described sin. God gives us Risq and tests people with poverty and wealth. It is a test of how we deal with too much money or too little money. peace peace

Well I don't deny that its not a sin. But regardless so you come under the conclusion as I then that keeping money without ever spending a dime on the people God has told you to spend on is a sin.

But the thing is that there are people mentioned in the Quran which we give to as charity but aren't poor and thus includes relatives and your wife too so I think of it more as spending in the name of God.

herbman

Salam,

my 2 comments

1/ in arabic theres no full stop between first sentence

934 "O you who believe, many of the Priests and Monks consume people's money in falsehood, and they turn away from the path of God.

and this one

And those who hoard gold and silver, and do not spend it in the cause of God, give them news of a painful retribution."

What I mean is Priest and Monks could be the "Those" of the second sentence.

2/ arabic word KANAZA in PRL for example

Kaf-Nun-Zay = to collect and store up, treasure, bury in the ground a treasure.

kanaza vb. (1)
perf. act. 935
impf. act. 934, 935
n. vb. (kanz, pl. kunuz) - 1112, 1882, 1882, 258, 2658, 2876

LL, V7, p 161

Peace

Aryan_Warrior

934 is a great verse because it highlight the common behavior which constantly shown by religious people up until now.

Let's dig into it one by one

The priests consume money (donation) by spreading terror falsehood, hatred and lies..
And they just don't like it when somebody challenges their lies 'version of truth', because the lies within will be easily exposed. Thus it will ruined their image / charisma. Without 'image' / 'charisma' it will be hard for them to spread more hatred and lies make money...

From economy perspective
They consume something from the society without giving back real value to the society, although they're not among those who are weak or impaired.

It's only permissible when the person is in state of 'helplessness' (elderly, weak, impaired) spending money to those folks is considered as 'charity'.. and it's a good deed as it help people in needs (serving them).

Hoarding Gold and Silver and DO NOT SPEND
As I mentioned in many thread before.. money by itself in whatever form (Gold, Silver, Seashells, Magnetic Field, Hole in a Disc, Pigs, Feathers, Paper) does not have any real value. Money shall be valuable if and only if it was being exchanged, and as part of that exchange there's a real value being created / transferred.

Many of you have heard about 'economy crisis'..
And what's the essence / root cause of 'economy crisis'?

It's simple.. it's when people do not spend their money... (in whatever form)
They stack it up thinking that 'money' has a real value, perhaps thinking that money will save them in 'bad future'...

When money is not being exchanged, business will go down and people start to lose jobs...
The whole society shall stop 'creating value'..
In simpler term the whole society stop 'serving each others'...

And what's the opposite? It's known as 'economy boom'..
It's when people spending money (in the valuable manner) the whole society 'value production' shall goes up and people 'serve each others'...

Then.. how about robbery? stealing? why it is bad?
Because robbery / stealing is earning money without giving real value back to the society..
A society full of robber / thieves shall not 'serve each others' they will continuously rob / steal from each others.. until there's no more left to rob or steal.. The whole 'value creation cycle' of the society shall become near zero..... and they will start killing each others due to the lack of needed resources...(which posses the real value)

Thus back to answer your question..
"Spending money for something nice like video games, buying new film gear, food" is ok... it improves the economy and people shall produce more food, video games, film gear etc..

But don't forget.. you need to earn the money that you spend by producing a real value back to the society..
It's the 'value that you give to the society' that matter and not the money..
When people are busy 'serving each other' (read doing business/exchanging real value through mediation of money) they will stop thinking about war or inflicting pain to others..

Salam / Peace

Wow beautiful post there dude D

It makes sense why the economic crisis happened together with the occupy movement. Though there are many rich people who do spend their money on stuff like cars and houses but also give to charity. Bill Gates is an amazing example of one. He is rich and has much money to last generations after but
also still spends billions on charity. Thus it goes to show that those like the bankers who kept all of that money and refused to spend a dime of it on society or charity is what killed the economy.

But as for keeping money for a bad time. Well its needed I think as we might really hit such periods. My. Mother has kept money on the side for emerency and we have had to dip into it many times when bad times were in. But I guess you meant it as in keep the money and not spend a dime from it for even charity and such. But the question begs that the money being hoarded already had a portion of it spent on charity before depositing the rest, therefore it is not about not spending from the hoard but rather spending from what you earn before keeping the rest for rainy days and future expenses.

As for thieves. What about thieves like Robin Hood who steal from the rich and give to the poor XD

Anyways tell me what you think

Aryan_Warrior

Greetings and Peace, all group

There is a difference between stockpiling and hoarding.

Stockpiling is done in times of plenty, such as storing grain in times of plenty for future difficulty. This is sensible and without harm to others. Stockpiling is ethical.

Hoarding is done in times of difficulty or when resources are limited, and exacerbates the situation for others. Hoarding of this sort is taking more than one is entitled/allowed to or able to use. Hoarding may or may not be legal, but it is not ethical.

The function of money is to circulate.

2567 And those who when they give they are not excessive nor stingy, but they are in a measure between that.

2215 They ask you what they should spend, say "What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, GOD is fully aware of it."

2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit." And they ask you how much they are to give, say "The excess." It is thus that GOD clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

So hoarding rather refers to when doing it during a time of when society needs thatt money. Well being in Canada the economic crisis didn't hurt thus nation so I guess that wouldn't apply here?

Aryan_Warrior

Salam,

my 2 comments

1/ in arabic theres no full stop between first sentence

934 "O you who believe, many of the Priests and Monks consume people's money in falsehood, and they turn away from the path of God.

and this one

And those who hoard gold and silver, and do not spend it in the cause of God, give them news of a painful retribution."

What I mean is Priest and Monks could be the "Those" of the second sentence.

2/ arabic word KANAZA in PRL for example

Kaf-Nun-Zay = to collect and store up, treasure, bury in the ground a treasure.

kanaza vb. (1)
perf. act. 935
impf. act. 934, 935
n. vb. (kanz, pl. kunuz) - 1112, 1882, 1882, 258, 2658, 2876
!
LL, V7, p 161

Peace

Hmm I never thought of it this way actually. It makes sense as its the same verse and priesta have been known for crooked behaviours like that on how they refuse to spend the money that is given to their temples and want to keep for thenselves. My only issue is that is this general to all people or just people like those who receive money to spend speciically in the way of God.

Also interesting, the arabic meaning of hoarding seems to differ from the english in that its simply storing up things without specifically mentioning future use. Thus one can take that it refers to those who just want to build up their fortune for the sake of building it like those billionaire who compete on who is richer /

Jafar

Wow beautiful post there dude D
It makes sense why the economic crisis happened together with the occupy movement. Though there are many rich people who do spend their money on stuff like cars and houses but also give to charity. Bill Gates is an amazing example of one. He is rich and has much money to last generations after but
also still spends billions on charity. Thus it goes to show that those like the bankers who kept all of that money and refused to spend a dime of it on society or charity is what killed the economy.

Bankers and Bill Gates personal wealth constitutes <1% of the total economy..

The system should be if the (private) bankers doesn't circulate the money around... the central bank should take over and do it.... by giving it to the government thus to the people... which will kick started the whole economy.. (Usually called "Incentives" or "Boosting The Spending Power&quot The people will start buying and the seller will start selling...

Remember the #1 commandment Money by itself has no real value

But as for keeping money for a bad time. Well its needed I think as we might really hit such periods. My. Mother has kept money on the side for emerency and we have had to dip into it many times when bad times were in. But I guess you meant it as in keep the money and not spend a dime from it for even charity and such. But the question begs that the money being hoarded already had a portion of it spent on charity before depositing the rest, therefore it is not about not spending from the hoard but rather spending from what you earn before keeping the rest for rainy days and future expenses.

I'm talking at 'macro economic level'.. while what you do is right on 'micro economic level'..
Let's taken an extreme case.. what if everyone "Save their money"?
And they all keeping their 'money' (In whatever form) within their home thus not 'circulated'?
Result Economy Crisis..

As for thieves. What about thieves like Robin Hood who steal from the rich and give to the poor XD

A robber is a robber is a robber including Robin Hood.. he and his gangs doesn't contribute any real value to the society.. other than 'redistributing money' by taking it by force from certain group of people.. The argument that "Sheriff Of Nottingham" is also doing the same thing is not a justification at all.. If the Sheriff is doing the same thing then the society is faced with two big mafias The Sheriff and Robin Hood...

And the "rich" / "poor" is just a labeling... in other cases "Rich" is changed to "Foreigner" and "Poor" is changed to "Our homeland brothers".. Taking money from "Foreigner" and giving it to "Our homeland brothers" seems to be a 'good deed' for some people..

Test Case What if everyone within certain society is doing Robin Hood + Sheriff ?
Result Sodom, Gomorrah or Today's Somalia..

Salam / Peace

No longer a Sunna-rejecter

In simple economic terms, hoarding of goods/services leads to a shortage in the market for that good/service, meaning not enough is being supplied to meet the demand. This leads to long lines in front of sellers, riots, fights, hunger, etc. Just imagine suppliers hoarding food because the prices are rising and they want to wait until they have a really high price for the high demand. This is a reality in many countries, especially in Africa where people hunger, stand in long lines, do not get enough food and resources, etc. Furthermore, this leads to increased black market activities. Money hoarding is bad for the economy because it needs consumption and investment for GDP to rise. Of course the hoarding of goods/services is much worse than money/demand-affecting hoarding.

Aryan_Warrior

I'm talking at 'macro economic level'.. while what you do is right on 'micro economic level'..
Let's taken an extreme case.. what if everyone "Save their money"?
And they all keeping their 'money' (In whatever form) within their home thus not 'circulated'?
Result Economy Crisis..

Okay lets back up for a moment. While you state the mechanics of how society runs here and therefore it is a problem once hoarding is at a macro economic level, thing is that Quranically going how is it looked at in a micro economic level? Give a portion to charity or other stated people and then afterwards keep in a bank for either further building to do things with it later or as backup for if something goes wrong for you at some point? and what about those who simply hoard but its during a time when the economy isn't a problem?

Aryan_Warrior

In simple economic terms, hoarding of goods/services leads to a shortage in the market for that good/service, meaning not enough is being supplied to meet the demand. This leads to long lines in front of sellers, riots, fights, hunger, etc. Just imagine suppliers hoarding food because the prices are rising and they want to wait until they have a really high price for the high demand. This is a reality in many countries, especially in Africa where people hunger, stand in long lines, do not get enough food and resources, etc. Furthermore, this leads to increased black market activities. Money hoarding is bad for the economy because it needs consumption and investment for GDP to rise. Of course the hoarding of goods/services is much worse than money/demand-affecting hoarding.

Course it does hurt economy, but the question here was that if simply giving the required portion and then hoarding it up for later consumption or as backup will it be sinful? Many business need such backup plans to stay alive incase their business is starting to collapse let alone any civilian.

savage_carrot

Course it does hurt economy, but the question here was that if simply giving the required portion and then hoarding it up for later consumption or as backup will it be sinful? Many business need such backup plans to stay alive incase their business is starting to collapse let alone any civilian.

Checks and balances should exist and the risks must be real with appropriate contingencies in place. Same as for individuals; risk assessments and so on. The danger is in needless or destructive hoarding as that is useless and at worst intentionally harmful.

Aryan_Warrior

Checks and balances should exist and the risks must be real with appropriate contingencies in place. Same as for individuals; risk assessments and so on. The danger is in needless or destructive hoarding as that is useless and at worst intentionally harmful.

Well the idea now is what are we defining hoarding as?

Is hoarding more the idea of growing your money more and more with intention of using it at some point for getting new things like a better house or car, saving for when or if you are old, and as a fallback incase you run into bad times. This was what one of the online dictionary sites defined the english word known as "hoarding" as gathering for future use.

Or is it rather simply gathering wealth for the sake of gathering with no intention of ever knowing what to do with it and therefore just wanna have it? A poster in this topic stated it the arabic word for hoarding rather means more this where the money is put away and never used again "Kaf-Nun-Zay = to collect and store up, treasure, bury in the ground a treasure."

savage_carrot

Well the idea now is what are we defining hoarding as?

Is hoarding more the idea of growing your money more and more with intention of using it at some point for getting new things like a better house or car, saving for when or if you are old, and as a fallback incase you run into bad times. This was what one of the online dictionary sites defined the english word known as "hoarding" as gathering for future use.

Or is it rather simply gathering wealth for the sake of gathering with no intention of ever knowing what to do with it and therefore just wanna have it? A poster in this topic stated it the arabic word for hoarding rather means more this where the money is put away and never used again "Kaf-Nun-Zay = to collect and store up, treasure, bury in the ground a treasure."

Sorry hadn't read the entire thread before posting. It's being used in 934 as negative and that's apparently the only place I can see it while doing a concordance. The rest of the verses people opine are about hoarding use terms like accumulation/gathering for example. This can be bad or good depending on how it's used. It'd say the latter above in the quote is one of the ways that it can be destructive/useless/wasteful. There is no injunction where buying a better car/house or saving for our futures so on and so forth is forbidden or frowned upon. As in all things balance i.e. enjoy wealth wisely and responsibly not being stingy or wasteful (extremes).

As far as the english goes, I'd choose saving over hoarding (if I was using it in a positive way) I suppose as I don't come across someone saying 'they were saving rice to sell it to others higher later' often. Probably personal choice since hoarding can encapsulate a more destructive form of saving...and saving usually connotes valid personal use I guess? The emphasis is on use (how/what (purpose) is it being used for, will it actually get any proper use etc).

In either case, my opinion is as above balance and that wealth is something to be used constructively and with proper thought. It can be wasted and destructive in the hands of some and cause lots of good for many/some in the hands of others. If you're worried about there being a difference between general use and spending it in the way of God, just divvy it up and use it for a little of each purpose, the ratios changing with changing circumstances, adjusting it to the various factors so on and so forth and for most intents and purposes this would cover a lot of bases generally and keep the balanced aspect.

Aryan_Warrior

Sorry hadn't read the entire thread before posting. It's being used in 934 as negative and that's apparently the only place I can see it while doing a concordance. The rest of the verses people opine are about hoarding use terms like accumulation/gathering for example. This can be bad or good depending on how it's used. It'd say the latter above in the quote is one of the ways that it can be destructive/useless/wasteful. There is no injunction where buying a better car/house or saving for our futures so on and so forth is forbidden or frowned upon. As in all things balance i.e. enjoy wealth wisely and responsibly not being stingy or wasteful (extremes).

As far as the english goes, I'd choose saving over hoarding (if I was using it in a positive way) I suppose as I don't come across someone saying 'they were saving rice to sell it to others higher later' often. Probably personal choice since hoarding can encapsulate a more destructive form of saving...and saving usually connotes valid personal use I guess? The emphasis is on use (how/what (purpose) is it being used for, will it actually get any proper use etc).

In either case, my opinion is as above balance and that wealth is something to be used constructively and with proper thought. It can be wasted and destructive in the hands of some and cause lots of good for many/some in the hands of others. If you're worried about there being a difference between general use and spending it in the way of God, just divvy it up and use it for a little of each purpose, the ratios changing with changing circumstances, adjusting it to the various factors so on and so forth and for most intents and purposes this would cover a lot of bases generally and keep the balanced aspect.

Well said. )

So in the end the end what is sinful is keeping it locked up for the sake of locking it up as "treasure" therefore no one gets any use out of it, not even the owner. Course I am now curious if a "coin collection" counts as this? P

And so the English one would work better as "Saving" then eh, thus why I guess they say people have "savings" accounts P

As for the rest of what you said, yeah we also can't go around throwing money everywhere to the point where it cuts into our needs. Course spending itself does help society get better especially in places like Canada where the government charged 13% on everything you buy, thus you pay a little charity with everything you buy too, but one has to in the end not let it cut into his needs, which is why we also have that command where we should not overpay in charity.

So I guess in the end as long as I pay my charity, have plans for my money that i'm storing up in the bank or whatever and not simply throwing it there and have plans on never touching it then i'm okay )

Course I have noticed that in stories like Qarun where hoarding was more that he had so much that everyone around him was suffering. I wonder if the Quran is referring to those types of extremes as result? Afterall the Quran hasn't forbid us of having treasure as Solomon had his Kingdom, and how God said we are to enjoy them in 314. I am thus coming up witht the theory that it means to excessively hoard to the point where society is being damaged around you and is sinful if doesn't give from it to charity or spend it in any way in the name of God as stated in 934.

Course I don't care for treasure as I got a use my money to buy things such as food and video games, save for later use, save as backup, or invest for the future and never to stay as idle with the purpose of never wanting to use it.

Course the new question that pops up is having a collection? People collect coins, stamps movies and even a video game collection such as myself. I myself buy a lot of video games and do play them but after I beat them, I keep them as collection. Some might say "why not sell them or give then away" but honestly they are like a form of treasure to me now and would not ever wanna give up this collection. Which got me wondering if that is like hoarding? I already did buy them so they belong to me, so its not like i'm withholding unused stuff but simply merchandise I bought with money.

savage_carrot

Well said. )

So in the end the end what is sinful is keeping it locked up for the sake of locking it up as "treasure" therefore no one gets any use out of it, not even the owner. Course I am now curious if a "coin collection" counts as this? P
Depends on whether the collector is planning on taking it with him into the grave I suppose?

And so the English one would work better as "Saving" then eh, thus why I guess they say people have "savings" accounts P
If you're using it in a positive way, yes.

As for the rest of what you said, yeah we also can't go around throwing money everywhere to the point where it cuts into our needs. Course spending itself does help society get better especially in places like Canada where the government charged 13% on everything you buy, thus you pay a little charity with everything you buy too, but one has to in the end not let it cut into his needs, which is why we also have that command where we should not overpay in charity.
Definitely.

So I guess in the end as long as I pay my charity, have plans for my money that i'm storing up in the bank or whatever and not simply throwing it there and have plans on never touching it then i'm okay )
Think you're good there.

Course I have noticed that in stories like Qarun where hoarding was more that he had so much that everyone around him was suffering. I wonder if the Quran is referring to those types of extremes as result? Afterall the Quran hasn't forbid us of having treasure as Solomon had his Kingdom, and how God said we are to enjoy them in 314. I am thus coming up witht the theory that it means to excessively hoard to the point where society is being damaged around you and is sinful if doesn't give from it to charity or spend it in any way in the name of God as stated in 934.

Agreed, that's pretty much how I see it as well.

Course I don't care for treasure as I got a use my money to buy things such as food and video games, save for later use, save as backup, or invest for the future and never to stay as idle with the purpose of never wanting to use it.
Course the new question that pops up is having a collection? People collect coins, stamps movies and even a video game collection such as myself. I myself buy a lot of video games and do play them but after I beat them, I keep them as collection. Some might say "why not sell them or give then away" but honestly they are like a form of treasure to me now and would not ever wanna give up this collection. Which got me wondering if that is like hoarding? I already did buy them so they belong to me, so its not like i'm withholding unused stuff but simply merchandise I bought with money.

Just will it away if you'd really like to collect and keep in your lifetime. The added benefit of that is with time it might have a higher value (monetary or otherwise). For example, the games would go to a museum of digital art preservation or somesuch ;D Or the kids/whoever gets it just might sell it and use it, um usefully who knows.

Aryan_Warrior

Just will it away if you'd really like to collect and keep in your lifetime. The added benefit of that is with time it might have a higher value (monetary or otherwise). For example, the games would go to a museum of digital art preservation or somesuch ;D Or the kids/whoever gets it just might sell it and use it, um usefully who knows.

Well say what if I didn't will it? Basically i am asking if collecting mechandise is a forn of hoarding as the Quran states? Or rather is already bought stuff known as hoarding if I am not planning to use it and just keeping it as a collectable? Also even if one can do a will then wouldn't mean one could put even hoarded money on will?

Course I guess in the end we gotta look at 934 where it calls hoarding+not giving anything to charity a sin? Therefore if I already gave money to charity that I am good to keep these prized possessions of mine worryfree?

savage_carrot

Two different things

You buy something (keeping everything else more or less in balance) and keep it with you forever = then you die.
You refuse to use your wealth (nothing else is more or less in balance) and keep it locked away forever= then you die.

As you can clearly see, one of these is the issue the quran talks about. And it's not 1. The responsible thing to do with 1 would be to will it away/see it used properly within your lifetime. If you don't, well then...not sure if it's a 'sin' but it is irresponsible. And we are told to be responsible. If you deliberately bury/burn/hide it so that no one can ever use it after you die, that's intentionally just being a jerk Whatever we have is a loan from God and material possessions temporary. If you see things this way, makes more sense. As for hoarded money, dude that's what you will away anyways? In one form or another? It has value in some form or another? No one wills air do they?

Once again, just try to keep it balanced because that's the issue we need to worry about. Strangely enough, not just regarding hoarding.