Quranists and testing for clandestine agendas?

Zulf

sun

Wakas

peace Zulf,

Thanks for clarifying your view.

nimnimak_11

It is better if we focus less on others and more on ourselves. It is better if we strive to improve ourselves and aim to find Source (Allah, God...) with ourselves, and free ourselves from the slavery of the mind (which should just be a tool, not the master). We should not judge others, because it will never ever be fair. Let everyone have their agendas. All we can do is to encourage manners and honest and logic ways of thinking. We will never be able to say anything about people's agendas. Why bother anyway?

Peace

Peace Zulf

I agree.
There is only virtue or benefit in thinking the best of others so long as one maintains their caution and prepares well. Judgement of the overall value, worth and goodness of someone is IMO only exclusive to God (since only the God is all-knowing).

What one thinks as a great sin may not be so great in the sight of God and what one thinks as a minor sin may be a great sin in the assessment and judgement of God.

To think oneself as better than another by thinking badly of others is to negate focus on one's own weaknesses and self-improvement. It is also possibly unjust to the other people and possibly an act of arrogance by he/she who forms such beliefs about others or the beliefs of others.

We are told that there are those who think that they are doing good but are only doing bad. IMO this further points to the fact that everyone should be heavily self-critical as well as sufficiently open-minded to make sure that they are not of those people and to make sure that they have done what they can to be aware of their flaws thus make sure that they are heaven-worthy both now and in the hereafter.

Bigmo

Peace Zulf

I agree.
There is only virtue or benefit in thinking the best of others so long as one maintains their caution and prepares well. Judgement of the overall value, worth and goodness of someone is IMO only exclusive to God (since only the God is all-knowing).

What one thinks as a great sin may not be so great in the sight of God and what one thinks as a minor sin may be a great sin in the assessment and judgement of God.

To think oneself as better than another by thinking badly of others is to negate focus on one's own weaknesses and self-improvement. It is also possibly unjust to the other people and possibly an act of arrogance by he/she who forms such beliefs about others or the beliefs of others.

We are told that there are those who think that they are doing good but are only doing bad. IMO this further points to the fact that everyone should be heavily self-critical as well as sufficiently open-minded to make sure that they are not of those people and to make sure that they have done what they can to be aware of their flaws thus make sure that they are heaven-worthy both now and in the hereafter.

I would like to add something. We must remember that the Quranist persuasion is still in its infancy. Its adherence are still searching their identity and their understandings. Its still an evolutionary process. The dust has not cleared yet and ideas are still being formulated. Their is still many resources not available and many are entering everyday starting from scratch. Its still very much a first generation movement with most Quranist coming from an alternative religious understanding prior to their Quranist journey. Often these prior religious understandings still has influences on them.

We must never forget this. Often some Quranist think they have all the answers and try to walk before they learn to crawl. We still don't have a single literature out there outlining the religious interpretations of the Quranist movement. Most books out there deal with an individual's understanding rather than the movements' understanding. We don't have a madhab yet. There needs to be more time in all this. The imprtant thing is that this movement has a great future since we don't have the obstacles with modernity as the Sects do. But its still a community thats still evolving and moulding itself to shape. It still has not taken shape.

Jafar

We must never forget this. Often some Quranist think they have all the answers and try to walk before they learn to crawl. We still don't have a single literature out there outlining the religious interpretations of the Quranist movement. Most books out there deal with an individual's understanding rather than the movements' understanding. We don't have a madhab yet. There needs to be more time in all this. The imprtant thing is that this movement has a great future since we don't have the obstacles with modernity as the Sects do. But its still a community thats still evolving and moulding itself to shape. It still has not taken shape.

We don't need single literature
We don't need yet another religion/cult/sect.
We don't need yet another madhab.
What the world and humanity need is more tolerance, wisdom and understanding.. a.k.a secularism..

A member of this forum said it best.. this forum / movement / community is the 'purgatory' for people who succumbed to sectarianism in the past.

Open up your horizon people... explore world views.. see things from different angles.. read and study (not only) the Quran, but the Gospel/Torah, Gita, Tao Te Ching.. and many other materials as well..

Seek out not only knowledge but wisdom as well... don't be satisfied merely on 'knowing what'.. expand further to 'understand why'. And always test test test your own belief / hypothesis, never stop on asking 'why'..

Salam / Peace

Roshan

I have often wondered if some amongst the "Quranist" community have clandestine/hidden agendas. This could also include authors of works from any sect.

Are there signs that suggest no agenda / agenda etc? If so, what would they be?

Peace

Backing the zionists?

Backing the wars sponsored by western 'jihadis'?

Roshan

aabdul

I have often wondered if some amongst the "Quranist" community have clandestine/hidden agendas. This could also include authors of works from any sect.

So, I was wondering, is there a way to test this? A way to ensure others or one does not have a hidden agenda, even hidden to oneself?

Salam/ Peace

Indeed there are ways to test this. We can understand whether a person has any hidden agenda, observing the person over a period of time and reading his books and articles and listening to his speeches, and observing his life.

Check whether a person is more inclined to promoting him and his views over and above promoting the message of Quran
Check how humble and down to earth person he is, how much respect he gives to others and their views and whether he abuses or
throws insult at traditional scholars and their views in his writings.
Go through his writings and check whether this person is interested in the establishment of an Islamic Society (State) based on Quran
Check and see how much contribution he has made (by way of writing books and articles) to promote the teachings of the Quran

These are some of the ways to check whether person has a hidden agenda or not. I have come across many schoalrs who claim to uphold Quran alone and I have found that Gulam Ahmad Parwez who could be considered as most sincere in his approach to uphold Quran alone without any hidden agenda.

Let me extract below the points I have mentioned above and I will give a brief explanation how was Parwez (based on the what I have read his works).

Check whether a person is more inclined to promoting him and his views over and above promoting the message of Quran

Parwez has written so many books and articles. I have never seen him wanting to promote himself as a champion of Quranic thought. Just this statement from preface to Urdu edition of Quran is sufficient to know how he considered himself. He wrote; ?Islamic Laws originate from the Quranic text and not from the purport produced by me (or anybody else). I have also drawn inferences from some of the verses. In fact the right to draw such inferences belongs to the Legislative Assembly of an Islamic State, and not to any individual or sect. My inferences are not more than a pointer in this direction.?

Check how humble and down to earth person he is, how much respect he gives to others and their views and whether he abuses or throws insult at traditional scholars and their views in his writings.

I have never found Parwez using any word against other scholars, past or present. All his discussions are on a intellectual level. No one can see any abusive word he used against any scholars. Just to mention an example; when he differed with other schoalrs over the translation of a verse in Quran, what he said what many mufassereens (those who write tafaseer) have translated that verse in a different way and "thus created a difficulty for themselves?.

Also, here is another statement from Parwez which will show how down to earth person he was; ?Lastly, it is necessary to repeat the fact that all my efforts in interpreting Quranic teachings are but a human effort which cannot be considered free from error or forgetting, nor it can be considered as the last word. That is why I have only presented the Quranic verses in this collection, although at certain places conclusions have also been drawn from the purport of the text. If you do not agree with my corollaries, you may ignore them and make your own decisions by contemplating upon the text. My only objective is to facilitate the work of those intending to tread the Quranic path, (helping them along according to my own ability and breadth of vision), so that they my find it easy to reach the goal. I would like to be their fellow traveler, not mentor. I shall consider myself fortunate enough if I can achieve this much.?

Go through his writings and check whether this person is interested in the establishment of an Islamic Society (State) based on Quran

Parwez earnestly sought for the establishment of an Islamic society based on Quran. The issue needed to be discussed in details. I will request those who are interested to read the following works of Parwez from www.resurgentislam.com

Quranic Laws (Qurani Qawaneen) by G.A Parwez
Constitution Of Islamic State By Parwez
Islam A Challenge to Religion By G.A Parwez
Quranic Permanent Values by G.A Parwez
The Basis of Legislation in an Islamic State By Parwez
The Basic Human Rights in the light of the Quran By Parwez
Human Fundamental Rights By Parwez
Decisions in the Light of Quran (Translation of Selected Chapters) By Parwez
Islam a Failure? By Parwez
Check and see how much contribution he has made (by way of writing books and articles) to promote the teachings of the Quran

He has written so many books focusing on Quran only. Two masterpieces of his life achievement are Lughat-ul-Quran (Dictionary of Quran - meaning of each and every word in quran in alphabetic order - mentioning the root word and its different dictionary meanings together with how the word and in what context used at different places in Quran running into more than 1800 pages) & Tabweeb-ul-Quran (each and every subject/ topic mentioned in the Quran in an alphabetic order together with the related all the verses in the Quran under the heading of each topic running into more than 1600 pages). Also the Exposition of the Quran http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/expo/exposition.htm

Some of his works can be read from the following websites.

http//resurgentislam.com/

Kindly download the exposition of the Quran from the above link (first link). It is worthy of reading. Insha Allah. Also you can follow the following link.

http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/BA_Parwez.htm

Peace

unknownuser

Well I will make it very clear now that I have no agenda, unless you consider wanting to learn and be at peace with my worship an agenda.

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I would have given myself away a LOOOOONG time ago. )

Peace,

Amina

Jafar

I have found that Gulam Ahmad Parwez who could be considered as most sincere in his approach to uphold Quran alone without any hidden agenda.

Thank you for sharing us your agenda and also Gulam Ahmad Parwez's agenda.. xD

unknownuser

Thank you for sharing us your agenda and also Gulam Ahmad Parwez's agenda.. xD

Oh my goodness...I had to look him up, I had no idea who that was.

Not bad...the man lived to be 109 years old, Masha'Allah.

Peace,

Amina

Bender

Oh my goodness...I had to look him up, I had no idea who that was.

Not bad...the man lived to be 109 years old, Masha'Allah.Peace,

Amina

Salaam Amina,

I think you got your info from wiki

Born
Ghulam Ahmed Pervez
January 9, 1903 (age 109)Gurdaspur

Died
1985
lahore

hypno

Wakas

In my opinion, Parwez's works are some of the best works on Quran based islam, covering many topics. Toshihiko Izutsu is good too, but tackles less areas.

You can find many great works here http//islam-and-muslims.com/islamic-books-online.html

unknownuser

Salaam Amina,

I think you got your info from wiki

Born
Ghulam Ahmed Pervez
January 9, 1903 (age 109)Gurdaspur

Died
1985

hypno

Yup, I sure did...and thank you for pointing that out. Now I remember the reason I don't go there often
lahore

unknownuser

In my opinion, Parwez's works are some of the best works on Quran based islam, covering many topics. Toshihiko Izutsu is good too, but tackles less areas.

You can find many great works here http//islam-and-muslims.com/islamic-books-online.html

Thanks Wakas! I am going to have to have a look.

Peace,

Amina

aabdul

Thanks Wakas! I am going to have to have a look.

Peace,

Amina

Dear Muslima, Assalamu alaikum

I suggest you to read his book Book of Destiny (Kitab-ul-Taqdeer) you can find in the below link.

http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/kt/KT.htm

Alternatively you can download the same from www.resurgentislam.com

thanks, regards

unknownuser

Dear Muslima, Assalamu alaikum

I suggest you to read his book Book of Destiny (Kitab-ul-Taqdeer) you can find in the below link.

http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/kt/KT.htm

Alternatively you can download the same from www.resurgentislam.com

thanks, regards

aabdul,

Thank you for the links and reference...I can't wait!

Peace,

Amina

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace aabdul and everyone else,

Indeed there are ways to test this. We can understand whether a person has any hidden agenda, observing the person over a period of time and reading his books and articles and listening to his speeches, and observing his life.

Check whether a person is more inclined to promoting him and his views over and above promoting the message of Quran
Check how humble and down to earth person he is, how much respect he gives to others and their views and whether he abuses or
throws insult at traditional scholars and their views in his writings.
Go through his writings and check whether this person is interested in the establishment of an Islamic Society (State) based on Quran
Check and see how much contribution he has made (by way of writing books and articles) to promote the teachings of the Quran

I completely agree with number 1 and 2 in your list of "criterias for sincerity." I am not sure about number 3 in your list. But if there is any Quranic which supports number 3 in your list, then I am open to the idea in number 3. Also, I agree with number 4 in your list, but I would add that there are many other ways to spread/promote the message of the Quran. A person can spread/promote the message of the Quran by translating articles about islam/quran from one language to another (you can read about this approach here), by writing summaries of books about islam/quran, by sharing information about islam/quran on the comment fields of popular online news sites, by participating in discussions/debates about islam/quran on different forums etc. I believe that there are many ways to spread/promote the message of the Quran. I will write a post about this issue in the future.

These are some of the ways to check whether person has a hidden agenda or not. I have come across many schoalrs who claim to uphold Quran alone and I have found that Gulam Ahmad Parwez who could be considered as most sincere in his approach to uphold Quran alone without any hidden agenda.

I once read an article by Ghulam Ahmad Parwez. It was an article about women's dress code according to the Quran. It was the best article I have ever read regarding the quranic perspective on dress code. The article had very powerful arguments and convinced me that women don't need to wear head-covering. Unfortunately, I didn't copy and paste it into a Word document. Therefore, I don't have the translation of the article. I have tried to find the translation of article by searching for it on the internet the last few years, but with no luck. The reason why I want to find the translation of the article, is because I want to find the original title of the article. By finding the translation of the article, I might be able to find the original article by doing a search on the internet.

Aabdul, if you or anyone else in the forum have read Parwez's original article (about women's dresscode according to the Quran) in Urdu, then please send me a PM with the title of the article. In my view, if this article gets translated into English, French, Arabic or another major language, then it can reach many traditional muslims around the world and help promote/spread the message of the Quran tremendously.

Some years ago I read an article by Kassim Ahmad on Edip Yuksel's site 19.org. And I liked his article a lot. His article can no longer be found on that site. If I remember correctly, the title of his article was "25 beautiful principles and rules from the Quran." Just like Parwez's article, I didn't copy and paste it into a Word document. Therefore, I don't have this article. If any members on this forum have Kassim Ahmad's article, please send it to me. If you send me a PM, I can give you my email adress and then you can send me the article to my email. The reason why I want this article is because it influenced my thinking in regard to Quranic islam. It was a very inspiring and interesting article, in my opinion.

By the way, there was also another article on 19.org in the past which I liked a lot. The article was written by Arnold Yasin. But the article can no longer be found on 19.org. As far as I remember, in his article, he argued that if someone rejects God, then he or she will reject a part of reality. Thus, a person will not have access to that part of reality. This article was also very inspiring and interesting, in my opinion. Therefore I would like to have it. So if any members on this forum have Arnold's article, please contact me by sending me a PM.

Aabdul, I agree with you when you say that Ghulam Ahmad Parwez could be considered as most sincere (among the scholars) in his approach to uphold the Quran alone without any hidden agenda. In my view, Syed Ahmad khan was also very sincere in his approach to uphold the Quran alone. Also, Muhammad Asad seemed like a very sincere muslim scholar/thinker.

By the way, there is a verse in the Quran in regard to sincerity. I'd like to share it with you and everyone else in this forum.

Quran 102 Do people deem it strange that We should have inspired a man from their own midst "Warn all mankind, and give unto those who have attained to faith the glad tiding that in their Sustainer's sight they surpass all others in that they are completely sincere-? they who deny the truth say, "Behold. he is clearly but a spellbinder!"

reel

Do normal Quran followers qualify for detection?

I think we had a few fake Quran following Muslim members here.

NewFreeMind

I think everyone has their own agenda and like you said, some might genuinely think that what they believe in is the right way, which in reality might not be the case.

In my honest opinion, instead of focusing on people that might or might not have a hidden agenda, what should be done is improve the foundation, which the Quranist ideology relies upon.

In the world of science, a hypothesis will be challenged by a lot of criticism and alternative hypothesis, simply because it doesn't provide solid grounds for agreement. However, if that hypothesis is backed by strong facts, the number people trying to challenge will diminish.

I have been participating this forum for some time and came across some really bright people, I changed my views about several topics as well; however, i must admit that many times ,given explanations ,gave me a strong perception of being opinions based on some experience/study (not that there's something wrong with that) but nothing concrete behind that, leaving it to be a simple hypothesis rather than a fact and therefore vulnerable to multiple interpretations.

Comrox

I think everyone has their own agenda and like you said, some might genuinely think that what they believe in is the right way, which in reality might not be the case.

In my honest opinion, instead of focusing on people that might or might not have a hidden agenda, what should be done is improve the foundation, which the Quranist ideology relies upon.

In the world of science, a hypothesis will be challenged by a lot of criticism and alternative hypothesis, simply because it doesn't provide solid grounds for agreement. However, if that hypothesis is backed by strong facts, the number people trying to challenge will diminish.

I have been participating this forum for some time and came across some really bright people, I changed my views about several topics as well; however, i must admit that many times ,given explanations ,gave me a strong perception of being opinions based on some experience/study (not that there's something wrong with that) but nothing concrete behind that, leaving it to be a simple hypothesis rather than a fact and therefore vulnerable to multiple interpretations.

It's really hard to test for one's agenda, I think, especially if they don't know of it themselves.

IMO, the beauty of this "movement" is the abundance of interpretations. None of us know, and only God knows, but we can still discuss and put forth our own ideas. And let the God forgive us all if we are ever in the wrong.

I don't know if you've seen it, but there's the "Can we have consensus?" thread that you might want to take a look at if you're looking for people to agree on some ideas.

Peace. peace