Qur'an and Miracles
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Miracles and Quran
The issue I want to raise is whether Allah sticks to His Ways/Laws (By choice) or not. Does He chooses, sometimes, to change laws of nature?
Parwez and Dr. Shabbir seem to suggest that He does not (He can but chooses not to) based on an ayah or two which says the we will not find Allah Changing His Ways. Some suggest read in context, it means He does not changes His ways when dealing with the rise and fall of nations and not laws of nature.
This creates many issues with interpretting many verses for example Birth of Jesus. Jesus speaking from the cradle, Jesus giving life and healing the blind by Allah's leave. Jesus breathing a soul into a clay bird and releasing it in air, Moses's encounter with the magicians in Pharoes' court and his stick swallowng up their snakes. Ants and birds talking in the story of Solomon. A few incidences regarding the Queen Sheba story, The placing of parts of a bird around mountains and then summoning them back by Abraham, The story of the man who was put to sleep for 100 years and the fleshing of the bones of his dead donkey, etc. etc.
We also repeatedly read about the Mushriks demanding a Miracle which is not granted but the possiblity of miracles is not denied either. Nowhere we read that Allah says that there is no such thing as miracles.They were told that producing miracles in the past did not work for some who are predisposed towards unbelief. If fact we read that Allah warns them if a Miracle was to be granted and if the Mushriks still did not believe they would not be given a chance to repent (if I remember the verse correctly).
Further we read about Miracles in the old and New Testament as well.
It is important that we establish what miracles are and if not with the Ministry of the blessed Rasool Muhammad, did they play an important role with Messengers before him?
Would appreciate any input on this issue. Thanks in advance.
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Miracles and Quran
The issue I want to raise is whether Allah sticks to His Ways/Laws (By choice) or not. Does He chooses, sometimes, to change laws of nature?
Parwez and Dr. Shabbir seem to suggest that He does not (He can but chooses not to) based on an ayah or two which says the we will not find Allah Changing His Ways. Some suggest read in context, it means He does not changes His ways when dealing with the rise and fall of nations and not laws of nature.
This creates many issues with interpretting many verses for example Birth of Jesus. Jesus speaking from the cradle, Jesus giving life and healing the blind by Allah's leave. Jesus breathing a soul into a clay bird and releasing it in air, Moses's encounter with the magicians in Pharoes' court and his stick swallowng up their snakes. Ants and birds talking in the story of Solomon. A few incidences regarding the Queen Sheba story, The placing of parts of a bird around mountains and then summoning them back by Abraham, The story of the man who was put to sleep for 100 years and the fleshing of the bones of his dead donkey, etc. etc.
We also repeatedly read about the Mushriks demanding a Miracle which is not granted but the possiblity of miracles is not denied either. Nowhere we read that Allah says that there is no such thing as miracles.They were told that producing miracles in the past did not work for some who are predisposed towards unbelief. If fact we read that Allah warns them if a Miracle was to be granted and if the Mushriks still did not believe they would not be given a chance to repent (if I remember the verse correctly).
Further we read about Miracles in the old and New Testament as well.
It is important that we establish what miracles are and if not with the Ministry of the blessed Rasool Muhammad, did they play an important role with Messengers before him?
Would appreciate any input on this issue. Thanks in advance.
No. What do you think Allah is a sky god who grants people wishes?
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Here is another view by Br Joseph Islam of wwww.quransmessage.com
If God does not change a 'system', then what did God stop doing in the following verse which He did before?
Something was clearly stopped ? What was it?
017059
"And We refrain from sending signs / miracles (Arabic bil-ayati), only because the former generations treated them as false We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully We only send the signs by way of a warning"This verse in one single stroke in my opinion, puts an end to the claims of those that deny portents ever being received by communities before Prophet Muhammad. Something 'was' clearly stopped by God as the previous people denied it. It cannot be 'verses' as the Quran came with verses.
What was sent to the communities before which they denied and which God stopped from sending any more? This is a simple question.
To anyone who clearly understands Arabic, the 'text' is clear. God says "wama mana'ana an nursila bil-ayati illa .." People can make up their own translations and interpolations all day long, but no one on Earth can change clear Arabic and sincere believers bear clear witness to God?s words.
6101 is clearly negating the claim in 6100 i.e. How can God have sons and daughters when he has no consort? This has nothing to do with God's ability to suspend laws if He so wills! He doesn't beget - Yes, but if he wants a man to be born of a mother alone, He simply says 'kun'! This is no different from when he desired the creation of the first man, He simply said "Kun"! - and then the process simply began (359)
Furthermore, 1064 talks about 'kalimati'. (i.e. that there is no changing (tabdeel) in the words of God). This once again has no connection with God's ability to suspend his laws if He so wills.
The simple question remains. What did God suspend in 1759, if He does not alter His ways?
But let us go back to the fundamental question. What did God stop / withhold / arrest / prevent / refrain / suspend (mana) in 1759 going forward that He had sent to previous communities? Secondly, how could He stop / arrest something if He did not alter His ways?
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Here is another view by Br Joseph Islam of wwww.quransmessage.com
If God does not change a 'system', then what did God stop doing in the following verse which He did before?
Something was clearly stopped ? What was it?
017059
"And We refrain from sending signs / miracles (Arabic bil-ayati), only because the former generations treated them as false We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully We only send the signs by way of a warning"This verse in one single stroke in my opinion, puts an end to the claims of those that deny portents ever being received by communities before Prophet Muhammad. Something 'was' clearly stopped by God as the previous people denied it. It cannot be 'verses' as the Quran came with verses.
What was sent to the communities before which they denied and which God stopped from sending any more? This is a simple question.
To anyone who clearly understands Arabic, the 'text' is clear. God says "wama mana'ana an nursila bil-ayati illa .." People can make up their own translations and interpolations all day long, but no one on Earth can change clear Arabic and sincere believers bear clear witness to God?s words.
6101 is clearly negating the claim in 6100 i.e. How can God have sons and daughters when he has no consort? This has nothing to do with God's ability to suspend laws if He so wills! He doesn't beget - Yes, but if he wants a man to be born of a mother alone, He simply says 'kun'! This is no different from when he desired the creation of the first man, He simply said "Kun"! - and then the process simply began (359)
Furthermore, 1064 talks about 'kalimati'. (i.e. that there is no changing (tabdeel) in the words of God). This once again has no connection with God's ability to suspend his laws if He so wills.
The simple question remains. What did God suspend in 1759, if He does not alter His ways?
But let us go back to the fundamental question. What did God stop / withhold / arrest / prevent / refrain / suspend (mana) in 1759 going forward that He had sent to previous communities? Secondly, how could He stop / arrest something if He did not alter His ways?
Those verses you're citing are as good as temporarily dead, as they have no right translation and could be totally different if translated well.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Quote- as they have no right translation and could be totally different if translated well-
Does this mean you are not sure?
Or show us the translation you have so we can compare.
Peace.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Quote- as they have no right translation and could be totally different if translated well-
Does this mean you are not sure?
Or show us the translation you have so we can compare.
Peace.
I believe in the translations by Dr.Badar and he's still translating the Quran so those particular verses aren't there. But you can see from the translations he already did compared to the mainstream ones that you get much different results.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Dr Badar, If he understands the original text, Why is it taking him this long?
I do not understand this process , How much longer is it going to take?
If judgement day arrives and the whole book has not been fully translated, we will be in trouble.
Peace.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
Dr Badar, If he understands the original text, Why is it taking him this long?
I do not understand this process , How much longer is it going to take?
If judgement day arrives and the whole book has not been fully translated, we will be in trouble.
Peace.
We won't be in trouble. The Quran is a reminder to people who have gone far from being righteous, but you can figure out the right way to live without ever reading the Quran or any other book, I know a person who was a muslim like that without ever reading anything about Islam.
Abdun Nur told me they were going to post the rest of what they translated so far when they find a better way to show it to people or something like that.
It may be long because Dr. Badar might be a busy man also he has to examine the ancient lexicons -
Peace Kaiokenred.
You have a lot of faith in the man?
What about you/ Your own opinion? What is the use of having the Koran?
Are we not meant to study it and try to ponder what it says ? All of it, not just bits of it?
May " Rabb" guide us to his truth.
Peace. -
Peace Kaiokenred.
You have a lot of faith in the man?
What about you/ Your own opinion? What is the use of having the Koran?
Are we not meant to study it and try to ponder what it says ? All of it, not just bits of it?
May " Rabb" guide us to his truth.
Peace.Faith is an utterly awful thing to have. I don't have faith in anything.
I don't care about who the man is, It's just that those translations seem most reasonable to me. So yes it is my own opinion, what did you believe? -
Peace Kaiokenred.
I believe in the Creator.
I believe in the Koran, All of it and all God s Scripture before ths Koran.
I believe in GOD s Prophets/messengers all of them.
Please check my posts, they will give you an idea, also check
http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/who-is-responsible-for-you/
Peace.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
I believe in the Creator.
I believe in the Koran, All of it and all God s Scripture before ths Koran.
I believe in GOD s Prophets/messengers all of them.
Please check my posts, they will give you an idea, also check
http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/who-is-responsible-for-you/
Peace.
Yes please tell me how relevant any of that is to what we were discussing before
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Dear Friends, for those of us who are mere students, this issue of interpretation becomes extremely confusing. Consider what is going on
Two different groups, having extensive knowledge of Arabic differing over this issue of Miracles !!
What is a common man supposed to do?
That leads me to another major point I have with religion
When a Prophet is alive, all such matters are resolved by an authority sent by Allah. When the Prophet is no longer with us within a few years, disputes over interpretation emerge and then conflict starts. Take the differences over Imamat vs Khilafat dispute between Shias and Sunnis. Each argue that their position is right. Now, with the Prophet no longer around what this leads to is division and it's consequences.
Question is when such major disputes arise, how are we to resolve them with no Divine Interpreter present. Sure we have the Qur'an but people differ over it's meaning as well!!
Sometimes, in such situations one wishes that another Messenger arrives and settles such disputes uniting the Ummah. Since that is no longer the case what are we supposed to do? Differ with grace and agree to disagree? In certain matters not vital for peace we can do so but how about sectarian conflicts. Look what is going on in Syria. It is about to blow up taking down Lebanon with it.
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Dear Friends, for those of us who are mere students, this issue of interpretation becomes extremely confusing. Consider what is going on
Two different groups, having extensive knowledge of Arabic differing over this issue of Miracles !!
What is a common man supposed to do?
That leads me to another major point I have with religion
When a Prophet is alive, all such matters are resolved by an authority sent by Allah. When the Prophet is no longer with us within a few years, disputes over interpretation emerge and then conflict starts. Take the differences over Imamat vs Khilafat dispute between Shias and Sunnis. Each argue that their position is right. Now, with the Prophet no longer around what this leads to is division and it's consequences.
Question is when such major disputes arise, how are we to resolve them with no Divine Interpreter present. Sure we have the Qur'an but people differ over it's meaning as well!!
Sometimes, in such situations one wishes that another Messenger arrives and settles such disputes uniting the Ummah. Since that is no longer the case what are we supposed to do? Differ with grace and agree to disagree? In certain matters not vital for peace we can do so but how about sectarian conflicts. Look what is going on in Syria. It is about to blow up taking down Lebanon with it.
Instead of waiting for a prophet's coming. Which, even if it were to happen, everyone will have issue of his/her authenticity. Who do you think will confirm it? Why shouldn't we try to understand just a word of book, if not a three or four lettered verse, ourself to confirm which is correct.
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Peace Kaiokenred.
You asked me a specific question. I answered your question.
You are dodging the questions and issues most of the time.
If you are not sure in your mind just be honest and say so.
Peace. -
Dear Brother Bkanwar2, that precisely the here Interpretation.
Qur'anic terms are being translated different ways. If you really want to have a good example of what is going on, try visiting aastana.com and read what Dr Qamaruzzaman is upto. Now he says Saum does not means fasting, zina does not mean adultery, nisa means weak of the society and Malik does not means angels but elites !!
But I digress....
In any case I find that some who are Qur'an alone based, differ over intepretation and the example I gave was over the validity of Miracles in the Qur'an and what it means by no change in Allah's ways!!
What is a common person supposed to do? Who is to decide who is right?
There is a couplet in Urdu which says
Illahi teray saada dil Banday
Bataa aakhir kahan jaaen !!(Lord, what us, simple folk, supposed to do?)
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Peace Kaiokenred.
You asked me a specific question. I answered your question.
You are dodging the questions and issues most of the time.
If you are not sure in your mind just be honest and say so.
Peace.I asked you what did you believe about why I believe Dr. Badar now what your spiritual views were
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Peace Kaiokenred.
The simple answer is I do not understand it.It may have some benefit like a lot of other systems, but I do not believe it is the truth.
Peace.
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Dear Brother Bkanwar2, that precisely the here Interpretation.
Qur'anic terms are being translated different ways. If you really want to have a good example of what is going on, try visiting aastana.com and read what Dr Qamaruzzaman is upto. Now he says Saum does not means fasting, zina does not mean adultery, nisa means weak of the society and Malik does not means angels but elites !!
But I digress....
In any case I find that some who are Qur'an alone based, differ over intepretation and the example I gave was over the validity of Miracles in the Qur'an and what it means by no change in Allah's ways!!
What is a common person supposed to do? Who is to decide who is right?
There is a couplet in Urdu which says
Illahi teray saada dil Banday
Bataa aakhir kahan jaaen !!(Lord, what us, simple folk, supposed to do?)
I do visit that site. Problem with most there is that they are stuck in the past. Thinking Dr. Pervaiz did a complete job in translating Quran. Although, Dr. Pervaiz realized correct method of understanding Quran; but unfortunately failed to recognize that it was just not few terms that were changed. It is the basic philosophy of Quran that was changed. Please try to understand Allah = "One who is not a deity for worship". Let this meaning sink in. Once it happens, then one stops worrying about all rituals of current Islam individually.
More important issue then is, what our Rabb wants from us? What is written in this book? To me, ones all energies needs to be put into work in this cause.
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In any case I find that some who are Qur'an alone based, differ over intepretation and the example I gave was over the validity of Miracles in the Qur'an and what it means by no change in Allah's ways!!
What is a common person supposed to do? Who is to decide who is right?
There is a couplet in Urdu which says
Illahi teray saada dil Banday
Bataa aakhir kahan jaaen !!(Lord, what us, simple folk, supposed to do?)
Salaam,
Brother please take a look at the following.
3127
3127 And if whatever trees upon the earth were pens and the sea, replenished thereafter by seven seas, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.How can you expect every individual on the same platform now? You see how much are the words of Allah? It is impossible for everyone to be on a single platform.
There are many ways that takes you to Allah, you can take any way that you like to be correct honestly. Your intention should be to make Allah Raadhi with you. You are only created to serve Him alone. So, look what He asked you to do and do it that is what serving is.
BTW, is that Panjabi or Urdu that you wrote above?
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan