Huroof-e-Muqqatat
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Salam
can someone list all the theories out there about huruf muqqatat? Until now, I found only two.(RK and traditional ) I alsso found this page
http//www.biblicalhebrew.com/alphabet.htm
and http//www.biblicalhebrew.com/images/alphabet-pics.gif
has this probably a connection with the huruf muqqatat?Who can help me?
thank you peace ) -
Salams,
well there is the notion that Both Arabic and Hebrew Letters were once used as numbering systems (i.e ABJAD) isn't that right? -
Salam Youssuf
yes you're right. I also know that Rashad Khalifa said verse 46.10 refers to al huruuf muqqatat and code 19 , but different Qur'an commentators have it generally related to the Koran.(but clear this is not a evidence )
Viewed superficially the theory impressed me, but also has its explanation to many uncertainties. I think the initials are signs, but they do not point more to the content of Sura?Quote from the article 19 fact or fiction
Gematrical ValuesAccording to Dr. Khalifa, the Arabic letters (as well as other letters) have gematric values
When the Quran was revealed, 14 centuries ago, the numbers known today did not exist. A universal system was used where the letters of the Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek alphabets were used as numerals.
This approach was used by Dr. Khalifa to produce even more evidence supporting the mathematical structure of the Quran.
I would like to state that, unlike the initials which are called ?signs?, the geamatrical approach has no true basis in the Quran and is flawed in its reliance on a value system which is not authenticated as being in use at the Quran?s revelation (in-fact, numbers were in existence and have been used for centuries through the trade routes with the East).
This approach creates pandemonium as there are no laws that govern which words can be counted for their geamatrical value and which words cane be ignored?What we end up with is a carte blanche for the researcher to come-up with whatever results he/she feels they want to be significant.
The geamatrical count in therefore not found to have any value (literally) in this research.
Salam Mazhar
thank you for your link. i will study it. need a little bit time, my english It would be great if there be such products or such sites also in German...e know that is a complete, which does not contain i.e. a statement. Despite it, if we wish to presume that there is some mysteriousness or occult meanings in these simple letters and signs why should we not presume like this;
(a) the initial Alif stands for Allah;
(b) (b) Laam means and refers to prerogative, something/someone particularly/exclusively assigned to someone; and
(c) Meem , being the First letter of the name of the Last Messenger, should be taken as abbreviation of Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam.
This will render the meanings of as "For Allah is Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam". Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam states this fact as is recorded for ever in the Grand Qur'aan
You, the Messenger pronounce for the information of humanity, "Indeed my Salat, and all my physical acts, and my life and my death are for Allah, the Sustainer Lord of the Worlds"
You explain here that Alif lam mim stands exclusive for Muhammad, the last prophet.it's quite possible, because he is the messenger who brought us the Quran, however, this is an interpretation.Why not Moses indeed?
You say that Muhammad was exclusively for Allah, but this is also the case with the other prophets, and every man is created for God (51.56, I have only created jinn and man to worship me)
Vers 6.162 is generally applicable to all people, not only for Muhammad
Thank you for your big effort and your great analysis, but I can not quite follow you. I would also like to hear your opinion about Sad or alif lam ra , how do you explain these initials?peace
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Please consider this, an understanding based upon language.
Verb form 11
Now make this form root = it can be written as
Root meaning = ?he (man) was in pain or suffered? plus meanings of verbal form 11, which gives a meanings of intensity to the root.
Hence, root meaning + verbal for meaning = ?Man (mankind) has suffered intensely?
Do not need a prophet to understand these so called letters. Just the language, a desire/urge and effort to understand these, as well whole of the Quran.
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You explain here that Alif lam mim stands exclusive for Muhammad, the last prophet.it's quite possible, because he is the messenger who brought us the Quran, however, this is an interpretation.Why not Moses indeed?
You say that Muhammad was exclusively for Allah, but this is also the case with the other prophets, and every man is created for God (51.56, I have only created jinn and man to worship me)
Vers 6.162 is generally applicable to all people, not only for Muhammad
Thank you for your big effort and your great analysis, but I can not quite follow you. I would also like to hear your opinion about Sad or alif lam ra , how do you explain these initials?This is not appropriate inference drawn. What I said was only for people like Rashad Khalifa and many others who are always trying to find some mysteriousness and occult signals in one letter and two consonants of Arabic language conveniently forgetting that it is a language of Syllables.
Read it in this context given therein
It might be difficult to deny that the first listeners of the Grand Qur'aan had the excellent command over the niceties and delicacies of the Arabic language and manners of communication through this medium. None of them expressed any unfamiliarity with this style of introducing the Book with initial. Had they expressed any such surprise or objected to it the same would have found mention and answer in the Grand Qur'aan since their even such stupid assertions are also mentioned and answered in which they alleged that the Qur'aan is taught/read to him by a person while that person was identified as non-Arab . It thus indicates that nothing is unusual in these letters and signs found in the beginning of Grand Qur'aan and its chapters.
We know that------ is a complete-----, which does not contain ----- i.e. a statement. Despite it, if we wish to presume that there is some mysteriousness or occult meanings in these simple letters and signs why should we not presume like this; -
I am trying to figure out Rashad's Khalifa's theory validity as well.
What really scares me is that if he was so adamant that he is a messenger, and if he turns out oh so wrong, then it will just make the smoke regarding God much thicker to me, because he really really felt he was doing a favor for humanity, and if his feelings were misplaced, then I am sorry that gives ammo to people who claim that divinity is something that humans made up. Am I wrong to perceive it that way?
What makes his story different than the Qur'an many stories?. I have not yet looked thoroughly into his claims, but perhaps I am too scared to find out he was wrong.
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Salam
bkanwar2 thanks for the tip so simple, I've never looked at until now !
Mazhar Thank you also for your help . which still employs me, or what I stumbled, the fact that apparently similar stock characters or letters can be found in the Torah. (and there gave occasion for speculation)It might be difficult to deny that the first listeners of the Grand Qur'aan had the excellent command over the niceties and delicacies of the Arabic language and manners of communication through this medium. None of them expressed any unfamiliarity with this style of introducing the Book with initial. Had they expressed any such surprise or objected to it the same would have found mention and answer in the Grand Qur'aan since their even such stupid assertions are also mentioned and answered in which they alleged that the Qur'aan is taught/read to him by a person while that person was identified as non-Arab . It thus indicates that nothing is unusual in these letters and signs found in the beginning of Grand Qur'aan and its chapters.
We know that------ is a complete-----, which does not contain ----- i.e. a statement. Despite it, if we wish to presume that there is some mysteriousness or occult meanings in these simple letters and signs why should we not presume like this;You say that those letters for first listeners was clear. Why then gave the various scholars such differentiated statements about it? Could be something clear suddenly so complicated? Or there is the tendency of people to seek occult correlations, where there is nothing?
or even more, these letters were specially used to sow discord by them by giving them a much deeper and more occult importance?this is very well possible, I think.
Anyway Thanks a lot for your answers ) you help me much
Peace -
Salam
can someone list all the theories out there about huruf muqqatat? Until now, I found only two.(RK and traditional ) I alsso found this page
http//www.biblicalhebrew.com/alphabet.htm
and http//www.biblicalhebrew.com/images/alphabet-pics.gif
has this probably a connection with the huruf muqqatat?Who can help me?
thank you peace )Salam mirjamnur,
this is also one of my long term quests.. thanks for bringing it up.. \
i feel that the hint is from the verse about the knowledge to name everything that is understandable by Adam AS.
a sort of metadata for language construction of some sort..?
inflection pattern but at it's most fundamental level? maybe it has something to do with code 19 as well..?
and the flower of life?what if the occurrence between alif-lam-mim, etc represents some vertices of a graph inside the flower of life?
maybe we need to fiddle with aggregation, juxtaposing of some way or the other to form a certain pattern inside/around it?i think we need more hints from the chapters where they occur,
like theme of the chapter, word counts, root counts, word-root-relations, word-root-theme-relations, etc..wallahua3lam,
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You say that those letters for first listeners was clear. Why then gave the various scholars such differentiated statements about it? Could be something clear suddenly so complicated? Or there is the tendency of people to seek occult correlations, where there is nothing?
They knew that these are merely the symbols of Alhabet which represent absence or presence of a signular sound and signs representing elongation of sound of that consonant. Nothing else. They did not question about these letters being sensible and intelligent people of their times.
And for later generation it indicates the Book in hand is in Arabic and shows its writing style. They knew that alphabets with signular sound do not convey meanings since meanings in Arabic are only in the syllable. They also knew that Alif Laam Meem does not represent a Root since Roots do not have letter Alif in them and nor have elongations signs therein.
There has never been dearth of people like Rashad Khalifa those who stupidify their selves and others by meaningless exercises of finding meanings in things where no meanings exist.
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Peace Mazhar.
The initial letters have a role to play in the great Qoran
1587 "We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Qoran." GOD is saying they have a role? HE mentions them specifically.
Also this is what GOD says in that context, same chapter
1590 We will deal with the dividers.
1591 They accept the Quran only partially.
1592 By your Lord, we will question them all, or.
Their role is to prove the Qoran is from the Creator
Peace. -
Peace Mazhar.
The initial letters have a role to play in the great Qoran
1587 "We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Qoran." GOD is saying they have a role? HE mentions them specifically.
Also this is what GOD says in that context, same chapter
1590 We will deal with the dividers.
1591 They accept the Quran only partially.
1592 By your Lord, we will question them all, or.
Their role is to prove the Qoran is from the Creator
Peace.I could not understand the logic if there is any in the inference "The initial letters have a role to play in the great Qoran" and the quoted Ayahs.
I do not find "pairs" anywhere in Ayah 1587.
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Their role is to prove the Qoran is from the Creator
Why not to accept this fact through simple and straight forward verbal communication that this Qur'aan is sent and communicated by the Creator of all that exists. Please calculate how many times this fact has been mentioned in Qur'aan in plain and simple words.
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Peace Mazhar.
The "Seven pairs" are the 14 initials. A L M...etc... What else could they be?Peace.
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Peace Mazhar.
The "Seven pairs" are the 14 initials. A L M...etc... What else could they be?Peace.
But the question was where the word "pairs" is in the Ayah.
And you are forgetting there are not 14 initial letters but actually 14.5 letters so to say since "Ha" has two different shapes. This makes it exactly half of the Arabic Alphabet of 29 signs.
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Peace Mazhar.
I never heard of" Half Alphabet". May be you have another book you uphold and you find anything you want in it?
7 pairs make 14. there are no halves that I know of.
Peace. -
Peace Mazhar.
I never heard of" Half Alphabet". May be you have another book you uphold and you find anything you want in it?
7 pairs make 14. there are no halves that I know of.
Peace.Salam good logic,
This is an interesting interpretation.
If the first 7 halves is laid down on an xy plane.
The second 7 halves is laid down on a zy plane.
both planes having a flower of life formation
we would get a 3d representation of the flower of life in the form of it's inner sphere cross sections .Do you happen to have any favorite sites that you refer for interpretations pertaining these verses?
Peace
Johan -
Peace johan.
No, I read different translations. You are familiar with my wedsite " Total loyalty to GOD Alone". I refer to it in many of my posts.
It is always interesting to hear other views/ translations/points . I keep asking my Lord to guide me to do better every day.
I find your posts interesting, I like reading your views.
Peace.
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Peace Mazhar.
I never heard of" Half Alphabet". May be you have another book you uphold and you find anything you want in it?
7 pairs make 14. there are no halves that I know of.
Peace.What I pointed out is that One alphabet of Arabic has a peculiarity that it changes its shape depending upon its location in the word. It is "Ha" which appears in disjointed alphabets in the beginning of Surat in both shapes.
However, the question remains unresponded as from where you have taken the word "pair" to make 14 alphabets as seven pairs.
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Peace Mazhar.
Simple- " Sabaan mina almathani" means 2 x 7= 14 ( 14 initials).
Peace.