Inheritance according to Qur?an

Noon_waalqalami

Thank you Noon waalqalami. I really liked your explanation because this "error" was what kept me in distance the most in the whole Quran. If I'll ever be in paradise that will be thanks to you. Although i still have some questions

what does " what left" stands for in the line for situation when there are above two girls. It's also used in other verses and there it stands for inheritage, not ratio.

Peace McKenna36, you're welcome.

What left/remains whereas from whole to parents/husband/wife/kalala case single gender siblings follows...
min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

What is exactly meaning of " " at the beginning of the same line mentioned before? Is it exactly "else if"? I couldn't find meaning in internet(I cannot really find good arabic dictionary online for studying Quran)

70+ examples and in this context similar to "else if" statement in programming.

224 so if/in addition if/else if laam/not thou do ye of and never thou do ye of so fear ye of the fire the one and fuel its the humankind and the stone prepared for the skeptics

" lildhakari/to the male " Is singular isn't it? I wonder if your division is right.

it's applicable 411 lildhakari/to the male gender

Likewise Kalala case mixed gender siblings conditional IF given covers 1+ males and 3+ females.

4176 and if be they of ikh'watan rijlan wanisan/and womenfolk (3+)
falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)

one
3195, 4124, 1697, 4040, 4913 dhakarin/male ... wa-untha/and female

336 so when delivered her said she lord that I delivered her untha/female and the god of knowledge in what delivered and not is al-dhakaru/the male kal-unth/as the female and that I named her Maryam and that I seek refuge for her in you and progeny hers from the devil the accursed

5321 al-dhakaru/the male ... al-untha/the female
5345, 7539, 923 al-dhakara/the male ... wal-untha/and the female

exactly two
6143, 6144 aldhakarayni/the males two ... al-unthayayni/the females two (likewise 411, 4176)

three+
6139 lidhukurina/to males ours
26165 al-dhuk'rana/the males

4249 al-dhukura/the males ... inathan/females
4250 dhuk'ranan/males ... wa-inathan/and females

hanslan

Peace All

After going tru the tread I'm still confuse, before and after. The short lesson here is leave a good Will.

Unfortunately in Malaysia, the sectarians has overruled the Quran and says the faraid (the ones the Malaysian sectarians created not the Quran's) can overrule the Will. So many God wannabes! In my case, I pity my children and wife who are all females, given that my wealth is to be administered by my brothers???

Peace.

huruf

It is very wicked that the malist tyrany has snatched the religion to make it its instrument, because after that any who wants justice will be forced to attack religion, and inded they may feelinclined to do so,becuse if rligion comes insistently in the form of injustice it will be indeed very sincerely rejected.

Real believers should liberate religion from the clutches of worldly minded petty tyrans.

Salam

Noon_waalqalami

After going tru the tread I'm still confuse, before and after. The short lesson here is leave a good Will.

Unfortunately in Malaysia, the sectarians has overruled the Quran and says the faraid (the ones the Malaysian sectarians created not the Quran's) can overrule the Will. So many God wannabes! In my case, I pity my children and wife who are all females, given that my wealth is to be administered by my brothers???

Peace haslan, siblings only inherit kalala case -- no spouse/children.
Here's summary, not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg377882#msg377882

Yes best to draft a will 100% then nothing left; if partial will e.g. 50% distribute what left accordingly, etc.

2180 written/prescribed on you when comes any of you the death if left best of the instruction/will to the parents dual and the near relatives in the right/fairness duty of on the righteous

Perhaps read sentence at a time let me know which part is confusing or if you have any questions.

Real believers should liberate religion from the clutches of worldly minded petty tyrans.

Salaam huruf,

410 surely the ones are eating wealth the bereaved injustice of only are eating in interior body theirs fire of and shall burning blaze of

Yes dire consequences punishment in this life and next regardless of wealth; reminds of the poem?

?The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.? John Milton, Paradise Lost

huruf

Peace haslan, siblings only inherit kalala case -- no spouse/children.
Here's summary, not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg377882#msg377882

Yes best to draft a will 100% then nothing left; if partial will e.g. 50% distribute what left accordingly, etc.

2180 written/prescribed on you when comes any of you the death if left best of the instruction/will to the parents dual and the near relatives in the right/fairness duty of on the righteous

Perhaps read sentence at a time let me know which part is confusing or if you have any questions.

Salaam huruf,

410 surely the ones are eating wealth the bereaved injustice of only are eating in interior body theirs fire of and shall burning blaze of

Yes dire consequences punishment in this life and next regardless of wealth; reminds of the poem?

?The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.? John Milton, Paradise Lost

Indeed, when a pure person foregoes easy earnings through moral slackness to some he or she may look like an idiot and if the person changes his or her midn because of that she will open hell for herself, but if she keeps his or her purity she will keep heaven.

Salaam

Noon_waalqalami

Wanted to post this summary; not sure if admins can link to beginning of thread save folks time reading?

411
Children
instructs you the god in offspring yours to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (females)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each) + 1/2 son/s

so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three+ daughters + 1/3 son/s

and if knat/be she whidatan/one (female) so for her the half

1/2 daughter + 1/2 son/s

http//oi65.tinypic.com/fc5pqb.jpg

Parents
and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth from what left if be for said person offspring

1/6 parent + 5/6 child {If mixed gender children use ratios to distribute 5/6}
1/3 parents (1/6 each) + 2/3 child

so if not that be for said person offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (if both parents alive) so to mother said person the third

1/3 mother + 2/3 father

so if be for said person ikh'watun/siblings {i.e. 3+ brothers (use 412) or 2+ brothers & sister or 1+ brothers & 2+ sisters (use 4176)} so to mother said person the sixth

from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
fathers yours and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
Husband
and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them offspring

1/2 husband + 1/2 parent
1/2 husband + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/6 father

so if be for them offspring so for you the fourth from what left they

1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (411) + 7/12 child
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 5/12 child

from after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment

Wife
and for them the fourth from what left you if not that be for you offspring

1/4 wife + 3/4 parent
1/4 wife + 1/3 mother (411) + 5/12 father

so if be for you offspring so to them the eight from what left you

1/8 wife + 1/6 parent + 17/24 child
1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 13/24 child

from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment

Kalala single gender sibling/s
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth

1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent
1/6 brother/sister + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/2 father

so if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third

1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 two brothers/sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent
1/3 three+ sisters + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father

1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176
Kalala mixed gender siblings
seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person offspring and for said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (females) so to them dual the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left

2/3 two sisters + 1/3 brother/s

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each) + 2/5 brother/s
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each) + 1/3 brother/s

http//oi64.tinypic.com/1zvpr0g.jpg

1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 brother + 1/3 mother (411) + 1/3 father

1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 2/3 parent
1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 2/3 parent
2/9 four sisters (1/18 each) + 1/9 brother/s + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

http//oi64.tinypic.com/2rc38mg.jpg

Peace,

Recluse

The Qur'an is not a book of civil law, administrative law or criminal law...

I hope one day Muslims will understand that these are completely useless debates nope

When I was a fundamentalist/literalist Qur'an only Muslim, I had tons of different tafsirs and Qur'an translations on my shelves (still have some) and was constantly trying to figure out what the magical "true meanings" of Qur'an verses were. This is a complete dead-end. These "efforts" will never solve any problems, they will never lead to anything positive in any society. They will not bring more justice or peace to Muslim countries (on the contrary). It has absolutely no benefit whatsoever to anyone anywhere. Also, without historical context there is no meaning.. Qur'an only Muslims are deceiving themselves without knowing to make the Qur'an more "palatable". It's a very innocent and naive attempt but faulty....

Noon_waalqalami

I hope one day Muslims will understand that these are completely useless debates nop

Peace ? was there something that needs further clarification or only posting due to frustration?
Inheritance verses require logical reasoning teach to look at all related if then else statements.

Recluse

Peace ? was there something that needs further clarification or only posting due to frustration?
Inheritance verses require logical reasoning teach to look at all related if then else statements.

Your efforts are futile, that's what I'm saying.

Noon_waalqalami

Your efforts are futile, that's what I'm saying.

No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile. I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.

Armanaziz

Brother Noon

We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.

However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.

Regards,
Arman

Noon_waalqalami

Brother Noon

We had this discussions before. I still hold that the inheritance rules in Qur'an can be implemented in several ways with some core principles being hard-coded. The society has the flexibility to implement within these guiding principles. I view your interpretation as one of the several potential plausible interpretations but not the only possible option.

Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.

However just to highlight a possible confusion from the above summary.. what is your suggested distribution for 10 sons and 4 daughters assuming no other beneficiaries? Are you suggesting sons would get 1/30 each and daughters 1/6 each? That is what your second chart means for me.

Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
411 ... so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

Armanaziz

Peace Arman, one can write a will hence there is the flexibility, otherwise one cannot make stuff up according to what they think it should read and likewise whatever they propose needs to be consist and not contradicting for each of the numerous combinations as in the above examples.

Yes, no confusion it's clearly written...
411 ... so if be nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

Thanks for clarifying your understanding.

Per my reading however " " translates as "If they are women more than two" rather than "If be women more than two". And the implication is vast.

Best regards,
Arman

Recluse

No, your efforts to dissuade and create doubt are futile. I am content and the above verses perfectly clear ? actually beautiful akin to a computer program; then again if one never applies careful logic to each word they may never see it.

I hope one day you will realize that what I said is the truth, it also took me a long time to accept this.

Man_of_Faith

Recluse,

Of course, the whole concept of inheritance here is stupid and one can see that it is the work of clerics.

When a father and mother have both died then their children will split their parents possessions equally. But when their either mother or father is alive in the flesh then certainly all possessions still remains with the widow as he or she is the other's half.

Not so hard to understand without some kind of scripture. Self-explanatory.

The importance for these clerics and scholars who interpreted Quran with inheritance only shows their Pagan (worldly) view.

One of the passages in which speaks of inheritance in the sectarian interpretation actually speaks about the grand responsibility of getting children and advice concerning it, in the real interpretation.

Be well
Amenuel

Noon_waalqalami

Thanks for clarifying your understanding.

Per my reading however " " translates as "If they are women more than two" rather than "If be women more than two". And the implication is vast.

Peace Arman, it's simple count how many; no difference or implications on distributions and to be more precise...

so if kunna/be/are (feminine pl.) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (feminine dual).

Also like to ask posters to stay on topic; thread is on inheritance verses according to Qur'an not about self doubt, futility, or opinions on how to divide wealth etc., perhaps open different topic, this thread is long enough already...

411
Children
instructs you the god in offspring yours to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (females)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each) + 1/2 son/s

so if kunna/be/are (feminine pl.) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (if 3+ daughters) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three+ daughters + 1/3 son/s

and if knat/be she (feminine singular) whidatan/one (female) so for her the half