Inheritance according to Qur?an

Man_of_Faith

Not me.

huruf

So does anybody here really believe that inheritance "according to the Qur'an" is more just than inheritance law in Sweden, the Netherlands or Germany, for example?

That implies hat eople here know what the laws of those countries provide and not lessthat they do know what the Qur'an rovides, which obviously is not the same as knowing what the people, whoever says that the Qur'an says. Notto beconfused the Qur'an with what anybody says the Qur'an says.

And not to be forgotten what other laws provide that together with inheritance may in fact turn out in an unfairer or fairer distribution.

Not me.

I am surpried thaxt you do not have here some interretation of the Qur'an of yours that topples all those fantasies about its meanings ther peole have.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Huruf,

I have not yet reached that part yet in the project, albeit once when I was curious I spontaneously deciphered one alleged inheritance verse and I found it spoke about getting children. Details about that will, an sh allah, come in some time.

But it is easy to just reflect logically to see there is absolutely no reason to state some inheritance law as that ought to come clear on its own. I think even an adolescent could work it out.

And I find the weird inheritance claim regarding verses to be unnecessarily confusing for something that simple.

And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything. And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.

And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.

Be well
Amenuel

Recluse

And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.

And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.

Be well
Amenuel

Bingo )

And the simple reason for that is because the Qur'an is mostly addressing the Arabs of 1400 years ago, it's not addressing any of us here. None of those Qur'anic "laws" have any relation to our own reality in the here and now, but this is extremely hard to accept for those who worship the book and equate that book with God (or God's might) Himself. They think the Qur'an is on the same level as God's knowledge when it's just a book confined by time and space, a certain culture (Arab), history and socio-economic situation. To fundamentalists accepting this simple reality would be equal to disbelief in God Himself (because God = Qur'an = Perfect) and enough to deserve eternal Hellfire. I used to think like that too, but when I learned about alternative views (initially by some Turkish Islamic scholars), I understood that I had been duped and indoctrinated from childhood.

As the Qur'an says;

"Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight"

Peace,
?zcan

huruf

Huruf,

I have not yet reached that part yet in the project, albeit once when I was curious I spontaneously deciphered one alleged inheritance verse and I found it spoke about getting children. Details about that will, an sh allah, come in some time.

But it is easy to just reflect logically to see there is absolutely no reason to state some inheritance law as that ought to come clear on its own. I think even an adolescent could work it out.

And I find the weird inheritance claim regarding verses to be unnecessarily confusing for something that simple.

And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything. And I am not buying that the sons have a greater responsibility because the daughters are too married to men who have families with children. The split should be even to be fair.

And if either husband or wife dies then the other will hold the possessions until both are dead and after that the remnants are shared with the children. The wife and husband are as one flesh even through death.

Be well
Amenuel

Indeedyou questionany inrpretation about the Qur?'an butinthis women less than men you haveswallowed the sectarian abassi intrpretation hook line and sinker. Which femalesget les than males? dughters? No. Sisters? No.

Where in the Qur'an says that wome inherit jointly any art? they ar all individual parts. Each person its part. The self-interestedmales have brainwahsed people to read what is not there and ignore logic and common understanding. I would haveexpected you who question evrything to see that. But nevermind.If there is only one female daughter he gets half omatter howmany sons, is that unfair? May be it is, may be it is not, it depends a lot on the circumstances, but it4 certainy aves the one woman to live at the mercy of their brothers, for whom she may be not the most important question.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Yes I question nearly everything.

In the common interpretation clearly women have a disadvantage in terms of inheritance.

Recluse

The problem is not "wrong interpretation", but our own attitude towards this book called Qur'an. And the disadvantage of women is not only related to inheritance of course; women are mere posessions of men according to the Qur'an.. because that was the reality back then. It still is the reality in the Persian Gulf, and in parts of Pakistan, Egypt and many other countries. So when it comes to women, I think we can all agree that Saudis are the best 'Muslims' in this respect..

Peace

Recluse

Yes I question nearly everything.

Why shouldn't we question everything? Why has the Creator given us these amazing faculties called mind, intellect and conscience, if we are not supposed to use them, or question/ponder about everything in life?

If we are sincerely seeking the truth and asking sincere questions, why would a merciful God throw us into Hell? Even if we made certain mistakes or arrived to certain wrong conclusions in our sincere quest for truth? Blind belief and acceptance of anything is the easiest thing in the world to do, blind belief or acceptance is not a virtue, and it does not benefit us, God or anyone else...

Any fool can do that, just shut off your intellect and conscience. If a real "prophet" came today many people on this forum would blindly reject him and tell him that they will only follow what their forefathers have been following for 1400 years. They would call that prophet a kafir/infidel...

Peace

Man_of_Faith

If a real "prophet" came today many people on this forum would blindly reject him and tell him that they will only follow what their forefathers have been following for 1400 years. They would call that prophet a kafir/infidel...

Yes, they do.

Be safe
Amenuel

huruf

And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything.

So indeed, you, who question everything, are indeed buying he arrangement made to the Qur'an done male rule through some centuries ad take it as unchallenged law.

So, indeed, your attitude is not better than that of themany you criticize for taking for granted the views elaborated by humans and diregarding the real wording of the Qur'an. Youcertify their sayings. But the text on inheritance to males and females is indeed very straightforward, the anilulation too obvious to see, but still you cling to it, something that is doneby many who blame the Qur0nfor saying this or tht but that if somebody refutes that "this or that" and shows this or that but somethig quite different, get vary angry and cling to the worst interpretaci?n that can be had.

Not that it surprises me.

Salaam

Man_of_Faith

Are you dealing with rhetorics or joking or did you not read my post or think about my stance, huruf?

I disprove of the interpretation you claim I do. You likely misinterpreted my words.

What surprises you? I have sound arguments, do I not? Point out any logical fallacy please.

Man_of_Faith

Redundant post.

Recluse

Redundant post.

?verfl?dig? !

Just kidding, but I actually recognized the Swedish word you mentioned in another thread without having to look it up;'skurkstat' ...because it sounds very much like Dutch; 'schurkenstaat'. Interesting..

Noon_waalqalami

The problem is not "wrong interpretation", but our own attitude towards this book called Qur'an. And the disadvantage of women is not only related to inheritance of course; women are mere posessions of men according to the Qur'an.. because that was the reality back then. It still is the reality in the Persian Gulf, and in parts of Pakistan, Egypt and many other countries. So when it comes to women, I think we can all agree that Saudis are the best 'Muslims' in this respect..

Women aren't mere possessions of men, off topic spamming thread.
I disagree -- Saudis are most ignorant and clueless about the book.
It is straight forward women are not disadvantaged on inheritance.

411 instructs you the god in offspring yours to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (females)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each); 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each); 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

so if be/are (feminine pl.) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two so for them third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each); 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each); 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each); 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each); 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she one so for her the half

1/2 daughter; 1/2 son
1/2 daughter; 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter; 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person offspring and for said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her offspring

1/2 sister; 1/2 brother
1/2 sister; 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister; 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (females) so to them dual the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each); 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each); 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each); 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each); 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each); 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each); 2/5 four brothers (1/10 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each); 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each); 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each); 1/3 four brothers (1/12 each)

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

See complete summary...

Also like to ask posters to stay on topic; thread is on inheritance verses according to Qur'an not about self doubt, futility, or opinions on how to divide wealth etc., perhaps open different topic, this thread is long enough already...

http//oi64.tinypic.com/2rc38mg.jpg

Peace

huruf

And it seems only to deal with fiscal matter as it clumsily partitions a greater deal to males as if money is all that is worth anything.

Yo said that in your mail. Frothat I understand that you are attributing to the Qur'an favouring males over females. But the Qur'an does ot do so, however since the time of he abasids the jurisprudence has twisted the clear an straightforward words of th Qur'an to inject into a it asumptions and conjecctures that are not there, and if you say that the Qur'an favours males then you are doing the same.

If it is not that what you meant, make it clear because Icould not fet any other thing from what you wrote.

Salaam

Recluse

Yo said that in your mail. Frothat I understand that you are attributing to the Qur'an favouring males over females. But the Qur'an does ot do so, however since the time of he abasids the jurisprudence has twisted the clear an straightforward words of th Qur'an to inject into a it asumptions and conjecctures that are not there, and if you say that the Qur'an favours males then you are doing the same.

If it is not that what you meant, make it clear because Icould not fet any other thing from what you wrote.

Salaam

The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think

Peace

good_logic

Peace Recluse.

May be according to your understanding ,you may say this

The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think

According to my understanding, it is you who is not honest with GOD s words. Qoran never implies what you say. GOD is fair and just.

Those who take words /verses out of context are telling lies about GOD, and you are not checking properly.
Be fair to Qoran and study it with honesty and sincerity . Do not take what others say about it as truth!!!

GOD bless you.
Peace.

huruf

The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think

Peace

You do need the Qur'an to be awful and you do need that somebody in your place (eg. the Qur'an) bashes women so that you can come up as a redeemr of them.

You seem to me one more run of the mill Qur'an and women hater that attempts to play the Qur'an against women and the women against the Qur'an and to present himself as a redeemer of women in the face of the horrible, tyranical Qur'an.

That is your problem, not the problem of the Qur'an and you parade too much your lack of knowledge of it. the only arguments you seem to be able to use are to repeat ad nauseam that the Qur'an does this and does that. Your word. In that you are exactly like the Muslim bigots, who have their males club and do not want anybody to shake their little arrangment.

If you were sincere, you would be very, very happy to know or to realise that the Qur'an indeed is not like the sick figment you are made to believe. But not only you are not happy with that, you get angry and fight with feet and claws in order to impose that the Qur'an is evil. You prefer an evil Qur'an rather than a sincere and upright Qur'an and you fight so that people do not find any good in the Qur'an.

As far as I am concerned if what you want is what you seem to want you are miserably failing The Qur'an is good, it is up to date and up to sincere peoples hearts and all your venom does not make a dent in its truthfulness. and its pull on upright people.

Salaam

huruf

Peace Recluse.

May be according to your understanding ,you may say this

The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think

According to my understanding, it is you who is not honest with GOD s words. Qoran never implies what you say. GOD is fair and just.

Those who take words /verses out of context are telling lies about GOD, and you are not checking properly.
Be fair to Qoran and study it with honesty and sincerity . Do not take what others say about it as truth!!!

GOD bless you.
Peace.

There is a lot of clinging at straws dressing them up as sequoias in order to defame the Qur'an and in that, not surprisingly, the apparent extremes go hand in hand.

Salaam, good logic.

huruf