The Avoidance of those who Ridicule the faith? Help please :(
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Peace,
So I am rather confused about this and worried at the same time too.
So it originally started with originally with 557
"O you who believe, do not take as allies those who have taken your system as fun and games from among those who have been given the Scripture before you and the rejecters. And be aware of God if you are believers." (557)
The part taken as allies I heard some saying it actually means friendship due to how the people of the book have already been discussed in regards to friendship in 551.
Then I saw 668.
"And if you encounter those who make fun of Our revelations, then turn away from them until they move on to a different topic; and if the devil lets you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people." (66
Here it is instead saying that we should leave the company of those who make until they change subjects, which if 557 did indeed mean friendship, it would be contradictory as this only seems to forbid being near those who say rude stuff about our faith. Anyone wanna clear this up for me please?
Scariest of all was this one
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4140)
The fact that it states that if we don't move that we are like them bothers me but what does it mean by being like them? As in I am a kaffir even though I am not covering the truth and fully believe?? How about arguing? Can't I simply just tell them to not talk about it as most people will usually just stop at that by saying "please don't talk about that"?
As well what if there is no intention behind their ridicule and making of the faith? for example I being in the film industry might have hear a guy acting out a guy who hates the faith and starts mouthing off the faith.
or how about say on Facebook where you see a post of theirs that has already said such a thing? It was done in the past and I didn't hear it, would that count?
Lastly when stating "your system" does it just directly reference the Quran or does it include God in general as I know enough Atheist who keep calling religion fake and God as being fake or those who say our faith is wrong and theirs is correct? Thus not talking about our faith directly.
Anyways i'm quite scared of this. Please help ( Thank and PLEASE help (
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I don't see what's wrong with saying you are uncomfortable around that kind of talk and leaving really. But I honestly feel that if someone talks smack about God, and I believe in him as my creator and master, I should of course defend him, lets resort to a simple analogy if someone talks smack about me to my friend, and he just sits there I would feel kind of bad actually...actually I would question the person who claims he is my friend! Much more than the person I know hates my guts. Yes I would think of my friend as a hypocrite he claims something, but doesn't act like it.
It would feel deceptive kind of.
Right or not? (Genuinely asking)I think it is very peaceful, that God said just leave them get it over with and just walk away till they stop talking about, because indifference shows being inconsiderate, or that it doesn't really bother you that God is being mocked. But walking away demonstrates you can't put up with that kind of statement.
There is many verses about how that if someone disbelieves do not treat them badly, because you taint God's name in the process. Also says if they deal with you in a good way you should deal with them in a good way yourself.
Arguing doesn't mean punching them in the face. Unless they are punching you in the face themselves.
I guess it shows conviction?
I don't know...but I don't think it is a strange commandment, because honestly, there is a certain brand of 'atheists' rather than let's say agnostics, or people who leave faith out of an injury, that just enjoy calling being religious stupid, brainwashed, and idiotic, and are quiet relentless about their 'intelligence superiority' and accusing faith of causing every single distress in the world. Which is quiet hypocritical and naive in my opinion, BUT most sane religious people understand the concept of to each his own, and don't resort to you are the smart guy who doesn't want to deal the most important question of human life why are we here, why do we die, and what happens.
I guess the word is...according to the Qur'an the idea is to make God number 1 in your life. It takes time to understand that...(I believe) so take the time to do that if you want to ).
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I don't see what's wrong with saying you are uncomfortable around that kind of talk and leaving really. But I honestly feel that if someone talks smack about God, and I believe in him as my creator and master, I should of course defend him, lets resort to a simple analogy if someone talks smack about me to my friend, and he just sits there I would feel kind of bad actually...actually I would question the person who claims he is my friend!
Right or not?
I think it is very peaceful, that God said just leave them get it over with and just walk away till they stop talking about, because indifference shows being inconsiderate, or that it doesn't really bother you that God is being mocked.
There is many verses about how that if someone disbelieves do not treat them badly, because you taint God's name in the process. Also says if they deal with you in a good way you should good deal with them in a good way yourself.
Arguing doesn't mean punching them in the face. Unless they are punching you in the face themselves.
I guess it shows conviction?
But the thing is that it only mentions the revelations and not God .
"And if you encounter those who make fun of Our revelations " and
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in" (4140)Thus its talking about only the revelations as I see so far, but what I am afraid of is this only talking about the Quranic verses or the previous scriptures too? as many people here try to bash the bible many times as I hear.
My biggest concern is television and other mediums where people might make fun of God and the revelations on there in a fictional sense and that even though its fictional if that still applies O_O &
Or how about mythical movies about some of the Pagan religions which while I take as false if that applies here as the people on screen are taking it as real supposedly thus "rejection" as per 4140.
and to top that off how about when one hears actors who are acting according to a script that has them ridiculing it because the character in the movie is like that? He doesn't believe his ridicule and has no intention behind it and is only pretending to be that actor on screen? Would I still have to leave his presence!?
Heck many athists might go around just saying "God is fake" and explaining why yet would that fit into such a bill!? They simply are stating their belief there and that isn't referencing to just Islam but every religion, yet I fear just cause of them talking about God that is directly applies to the verses too O_O
I honestly am freakin out.... I would be fine with it if it wasn't for the fact that 4140 said that we would be "like them"...this is getting really hard to handle for me....
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D D D
I know how you feel exactly, by saying that you don't want to just all of a sudden become like them. Like it is just something that will print off uncontrollably, like magic.
Look, I can only speak from experience, I may go to hell, but!! I when I used to be in college, when I was around a 'mildly' bad company, It was much easier to get persuaded to do bad things, even though I don't even like doing those things, it is not even as tempting to me as it is to them. I did hash for a while for example, just because my friends wanted me to. It is such a stupid feeling, I don't like it, but my friends seemed to tell me it will help me relax....it just didn't but I just couldn't think they are wrong or it is not for me.
Also my opinions are swayed sometimes according to the company I am around. Because I am unsure of my self, and I think peer pressure is just a powerful influence, and God knows it.
Do not underestimate the power to be influenced I guess is what I am trying to say. But....also, I believe in understanding what you are facing and not just hiding from it. I tried hash and alcohol, also to understand what God means by that mind influencing things are bad. How can I claim I believe in God's revelation if I have not tested them....I don't know how others feel about this, but I always confronted things I felt made me question my faith rather than just avoid them, or be indifferent about them, or worst to me is deny they exist. Because otherwise...I just feel fake.
I believe God says that you shouldn't claim you believe right away, but rather claim that you submit first and then believing comes later, I think it became much easier to me to not feel easily swayed when I understood that believing according to God is an ongoing process, you don't just do it cause you have to, I don't believe you can force it.
http//quran.com/49/14-14
Now revelation wise. Well God doesn't disown the Torat and the Enjeel in the Qur'an they are his revelations too. But the Bible is not just God's revelation, and this is a known idea to Christians themselves it is a collection of many things. So it is important to know what is being criticized, and also mocking/rejecting I believe are different than a real attempt of criticizing to get answers not to just say no you are stupid but I am not.
So study the revelations and then I think it would be much easier to sort out what sounds like God's revelation, and what doesn't seem like it. And I guess always pray to God to not be mislead. I think God wants you to understand how easy it is to be mislead and wants us to always ask for his protection against getting lost that way. So your concern is valid!! you should be. According to my understanding .
Don't panick about it, look as a pharmacist we are taught that we should tell smokers that if they want to quit they need to tell any friends that they decided to quit smoking. They would appreciate if they do not smoke in front of him to not tempt his urge. Otherwise he should avoid them. Same for AA, same for dieting!
So the concept is human limitation. Just understand it and work on it, do not choose to fear it . MY OPINION.
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My biggest concern is television and other mediums where people might make fun of God and the revelations on there in a fictional sense and that even though its fictional if that still applies O_O &
Regarding television, I honestly recommend being very wary of just watching anything, just because it is TV, or a show. I don't want to sound paranoid. But even Madonna who TV made her be anything, did not want her kids to watch television, I think because she said it her self a lot of the preconceived ideas the TV gave were false, and not true, but it seemed very true to her when she was growing up. And it makes things that are bad look cool, and vice versa.
So I can't tell you don't watch this and that, but just be wary what is it that you are laughing/enjoy watching. And what kind of message is being given.
Just like porn is damaging to watch for example?.
Pray for guidance, and use your head and heart is my opinion...I could be wrong
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You want to avoid those who ridicule the baseless trust/belief (faith) ?
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Regarding television, I honestly recommend being very wary of just watching anything, just because it is TV, or a show. I don't want to sound paranoid. But even Madonna who TV made her be anything, did not want her kids to watch television, I think because she said it her self a lot of the preconceived ideas the TV gave were false, and not true, but it seemed very true to her when she was growing up. And it makes things that are bad look cool, and vice versa.
And she made good things look bad presumably...most notable example of which would be her acting in movies.
My biggest concern is television and other mediums where people might make fun of God and the revelations on there in a fictional sense and that even though its fictional if that still applies O_O
As far as non-interactive mediums are concerned, you can't interact anyways...either observe or change the channel/movie if it's crap.
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Now revelation wise. Well God doesn't disown the Torat and the Enjeel in the Qur'an they are his revelations too. But the Bible is not just God's revelation, and this is a known idea to Christians themselves it is a collection of many things. So it is important to know what is being criticized, and also mocking/rejecting I believe are different than a real attempt of criticizing to get answers not to just say no you are stupid but I am not.
So study the revelations and then I think it would be much easier to sort out what sounds like God's revelation, and what doesn't seem like it. And I guess always pray to God to not be mislead. I think God wants you to understand how easy it is to be mislead and wants us to always ask for his protection against getting lost that way. So your concern is valid!! you should be. According to my understanding ).
Well first and foremost my beliefs are sturdy enough not to have me misled, so I have no worries about that.
As for the Gospal and the Torah, the problem is that they are books that have been modified and not the original and the verse itself itself seems to always refer to them as "previous revelations" so it seems like they are disowned in favour of the Quran.
Regarding television, I honestly recommend being very wary of just watching anything, just because it is TV, or a show. I don't want to sound paranoid. But even Madonna who TV made her be anything, did not want her kids to watch television, I think because she said it her self a lot of the preconceived ideas the TV gave were false, and not true, but it seemed very true to her when she was growing up. And it makes things that are bad look cool, and vice versa.
So I can't tell you don't watch this and that, but just be wary what is it that you are laughing/enjoy watching. And what kind of message is being given.
Just like porn is damaging to watch for example?.
Pray for guidance, and use your head and heart is my opinion...I could be wrong )
Porn is different, it fits under the catagory of "lower your gaze" The rest I really don't see anything wrong with as they are fictional stories for example you got movies like Thor which has the whole Norse Mythology mixed in and thus by loose attachment one can say it takes the "verse of God" is ridiculed by the film taking Norse Mythology as correct, which is what is scaring me here really... however examining the verse I can see this
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4140)it says "sit with them" which makes me think it can only refer to a company in real life you are dealing with. However my issue is "revelations". I would like to think it only refers to relations here and not to the more general sense. General sense referring to God who presides over all religions and that one person might say in real life that "God is fake" or "God is three" or "God is father" or "God is a human" or "God is wrong" stuff that we shouldn't be saying but I would find it odd to think that simply hearing these interpreations of opinions of God would count as part of the "revelations" as Islam has its own interpreation of God while other people have their own too, but to a muslim it might be "ridicule" cause its the incorrect interpreation which is what frightens me really and thus I am thinking that it can only refer to the text of the Quran if ridiculed and doesn't mention God..though I am so unsure and scared here.
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As far as non-interactive mediums are concerned, you can't interact anyways...either observe or change the channel/movie if it's crap.
I understand, however what if we are discussing the film in real life such as "Thor" which talks about such mythology? like discussing the mythology of it even though I and likely others know it is fake. I know its quite a loose way of going about it but I worry that what if when stating revelations of God in ridicule might also refer to simply discussing other religions which in contrast is ridicule to this faith / As well I work in the film industry, so I technically do interact with the actors who are do their lines and might say such things, would this still apply even though they don't actually mean it?
Still rather depressed...and if not for the part stating that "you would be like them", I would not have been as depressed as it makes me fear that simply hearing it like that makes me a kaffir like that -_-
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I know how you feel exactly, by saying that you don't want to just all of a sudden become like them. Like it is just something that will print off uncontrollably, like magic.
Look, I can only speak from experience, I may go to hell, but!! I when I used to be in college, when I was around a 'mildly' bad company, It was much easier to get persuaded to do bad things, even though I don't even like doing those things, it is not even as tempting to me as it is to them. I did hash for a while for example, just because my friends wanted me to. It is such a stupid feeling, I don't like it, but my friends seemed to tell me it will help me relax....it just didn't but I just couldn't think they are wrong or it is not for me.
Also my opinions are swayed sometimes according to the company I am around. Because I am unsure of my self, and I think peer pressure is just a powerful influence, and God knows it.
Do not underestimate the power to be influenced I guess is what I am trying to say. But....also, I believe in understanding what you are facing and not just hiding from it. I tried hash and alcohol, also to understand what God means by that mind influencing things are bad. How can I claim I believe in God's revelation if I have not tested them....I don't know how others feel about this, but I always confronted things I felt made me question my faith rather than just avoid them, or be indifferent about them, or worst to me is deny they exist. Because otherwise...I just feel fake.
I believe God says that you shouldn't claim you believe right away, but rather claim that you submit first and then believing comes later, I think it became much easier to me to not feel easily swayed when I understood that believing according to God is an ongoing process, you don't just do it cause you have to, I don't believe you can force it.
http//quran.com/49/14-14
Now revelation wise. Well God doesn't disown the Torat and the Enjeel in the Qur'an they are his revelations too. But the Bible is not just God's revelation, and this is a known idea to Christians themselves it is a collection of many things. So it is important to know what is being criticized, and also mocking/rejecting I believe are different than a real attempt of criticizing to get answers not to just say no you are stupid but I am not.
So study the revelations and then I think it would be much easier to sort out what sounds like God's revelation, and what doesn't seem like it. And I guess always pray to God to not be mislead. I think God wants you to understand how easy it is to be mislead and wants us to always ask for his protection against getting lost that way. So your concern is valid!! you should be. According to my understanding .
Don't panick about it, look as a pharmacist we are taught that we should tell smokers that if they want to quit they need to tell any friends that they decided to quit smoking. They would appreciate if they do not smoke in front of him to not tempt his urge. Otherwise he should avoid them. Same for AA, same for dieting!
So the concept is human limitation. Just understand it and work on it, do not choose to fear it . MY OPINION.
I enjoyed reading your post. I have a strong committment to living in a righteous way, as previous to serving God Alone I was extremely sinful. My western workmates like to backbite & they gossip constantly, drink & party, talk about their sexual affairs etc. At first I accepted their social invitations, but I found I was being influenced by them and ever since I became a submitter to God Alone, I don't enjoy being around this type of behaviour, or doing it myself, so I stopped going to their social events. Now I keep to myself at work apart from professional discussions. The rest of my workmates and people in my community follow corrupted form of Islam (Sunnis) and I don't mix with them socially either. I sometimes find it a very lonely and challenging road to be the outsider. I do not have any friends where I live (in a small town in UAE). All I have is Freeminds!!! I live by myself and I am mostly spending my time in the house. I read & study Quran, pray, watch TV documentaries, movies, news. I feel happy most of the time but some days I really feel lonely for righteous friends. I wonder about others who serve God Alone. Do you feel isolated? How do you cope with the lack of social / emotional support?
I am thinking that when I finish my work contract here, I would like to move somewhere in the world where I can be near to others who have the same beliefs. God willing I will be able to get the necessary visa and financially be able to afford to do this. -
I understand, however what if we are discussing the film in real life such as "Thor" which talks about such mythology? like discussing the mythology of it even though I and likely others know it is fake. I know its quite a loose way of going about it but I worry that what if when stating revelations of God in ridicule might also refer to simply discussing other religions which in contrast is ridicule to this faith / As well I work in the film industry, so I technically do interact with the actors who are do their lines and might say such things, would this still apply even though they don't actually mean it?
Still rather depressed...and if not for the part stating that "you would be like them", I would not have been as depressed as it makes me fear that simply hearing it like that makes me a kaffir like that -_-
There is a distinct difference in something mythological/discussing different faiths whatnot and actually ridiculing God's revelations (e.g. quran). Only an extremist would throw everything like that in the same category and from there the next step is calling it blasphemous and haram. You know this already (given the way you have phrased your response), so there is no issue. An actor is an actor...if he's uncomfortable with his lines for whatever reason, then it's his choice to play the part or not. It has nothing to do with someone else working around them hearing them say their lines...this is plain and basic common sense man!
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Well... I have calmed down a bit (still distressed though)... and gathered my thoughts a bit and here is what I think (and would like clarification)
Well here is that verse again first off
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4140)Fact is that it is talking about God's revelations only that we should avoid. The Torah and the Gospal have been altered are aren't exactly the world of God anymore while the Quran is unchanged and purely the world of God. As far as i'm aware the world Ayat (translated as revelations or signs) has been used so far only for the Quran (Please inform me if I indeed am wrong about this). Thus its text from the Quran as far as I can tell.
Next it just states verses and not the talk about God. I was thinking that talking wrongly of God would also fit into this but this verse makes a differentiation
"And if you ask them they say "We were only jesting and playing." Say "Is it in God and His verses and His messenger you were mocking?" (965)
This shows the verses are separate from God and the messenger as well, so as far as I can gather if one hears one talking wrongly of God it is not a requirement of us to walk off and that makes sense as there are sooooo many different interpretations to God. Some think He doesn't exist, some think he looks human, some think he's Jesus, some think he is 3, some think he is everything and quite frankly they aren't bashing your personal beliefs either as far as i'm aware.
But one would think that because God is mentioned in the verses, it would include God as well. That is what I was thinking, however I am coming to an opinion that its people who directly take those verses and make fun of it, like taking a verse and reading it in a weird way for a joke, or trying to claim that why said verses are fake or denying said verse from being true.
Notice that it doesn't mention the "book" and states we only move in regards to "verses", which makes sense as someone from another faith might simply state "I don't believe in the Quran" when stating his beliefs and hasn't went to detailed descriptions of why such and such verses are being rejected or mocked at. Considering to reject (kufr) requires one to already believe in order to cover the truth for themselves, that isn't seen much and the only other type is someone who never believed who is trying to cover the truth is one that we should avoid.
Then comes the whole thing I mentioned about intention. I was worried about people who were simply acting a role like this in a movie while I am on set as a film maker. Fact is that they don't have intention to covering the truth with that nor are they intentionally making fun of it either. Even so, its quite a taboo nowadays to make a movie that intentionally makes fun of the Quran so I would be safe there.
Then we got the discussion about non-Islamic religions, which no one is bashing nor covering yours up but simply talking about the other religions. Even if they were to bash those non-islamic Islamic religions and even were Christians and Jews who were criticizing their own books, I wouldn't think it fits into the catagory as its only the Verses of God which means the verses in the Quran.
As well if hearing it on TV, it wouldn't count as the verse directly states "sitting" with them is not allowed and here we are not with them but just hearing it as if we are reading it from a book which I can bet there were books then that had such thing and the Quran didn't forbid us at looking at those.
Thus this is what i'm starting to understand but still am quite unsure about this theory and would like more clarification. Only remaining questions are, what if I wanna debate with them if they are talking smack about the verse of the Quran? or how about instead of getting up I tell them to stop and they do so? I would like some verses to back this up.
Still rather scared but feeling a bit more hopeful. If I indeed have been wrong here then may God forgive me.
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There is a distinct difference in something mythological/discussing different faiths whatnot and actually ridiculing God's revelations (e.g. quran). Only an extremist would throw everything like that in the same category and from there the next step is calling it blasphemous and haram. You know this already (given the way you have phrased your response), so there is no issue. An actor is an actor...if he's uncomfortable with his lines for whatever reason, then it's his choice to play the part or not. It has nothing to do with someone else working around them hearing them say their lines...this is plain and basic common sense man!
Makes sense and as I said in my recent post since the actor has no actual intention of intentionally mocking nor rejecting, that doesn't count in the end.
Thanks. As well one other question I wanna ask you since you personally is what do you take the part saying "same as them" to mean? As in just sitting with that crowd even though they don't believe what they say that they are kaffirs like them? or something else?
Thanks again )
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Makes sense and as I said in my recent post since the actor has no actual intention of intentionally mocking nor rejecting, that doesn't count in the end.
Thanks. As well one other question I wanna ask you since you personally is what do you take the part saying "same as them" to mean? As in just sitting with that crowd even though they don't believe what they say that they are kaffirs like them? or something else?
Thanks again
I take that part to point towards what our intention should be and our interaction comprise of when we come across it. Which in my opinion is pointing towards not being a part of it. Whether that comprises of saying out loud that it's not acceptable and/or moving away from those sorts of conversations/what have you (literally...or figuratively as in finding better company) etc. If you don't do any of the above and just continue to hang about in such a crowd...you are part of the problem. No different from the sheep who refuse to do anything for fear of being kicked out of the herd. The quran is a very pro-active book as I was just discussing with a few people today...it's geared towards optimal solutions and resolutions of our common issues and how to have the proper mindset psychologically to deal with such. It's constantly telling you to go and do something for your betterment and that of others. You can't just sit around and play armchair hero so to say.
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f you don't do any of the above and just continue to hang about in such a crowd...you are part of the problem
This is great advice. I am in a boat like Lena's. I work with ppl who are so used to joking about their own faith, that they just find it normal to joke with any faith. Example. My mother sends me jokes about God or Jesus, that get sent to her from friends. My family is Catholic and I was raised in a moderately strict christian home. But she does not see these jokes as harmful. Sometimes I don't even think they are aware. This is what happens when you make God.. MAN. Anyway. I can understand how you feel.
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I take that part to point towards what our intention should be and our interaction comprise of when we come across it. Which in my opinion is pointing towards not being a part of it. Whether that comprises of saying out loud that it's not acceptable and/or moving away from those sorts of conversations/what have you (literally...or figuratively as in finding better company) etc. If you don't do any of the above and just continue to hang about in such a crowd...you are part of the problem. No different from the sheep who refuse to do anything for fear of being kicked out of the herd. The quran is a very pro-active book as I was just discussing with a few people today...it's geared towards optimal solutions and resolutions of our common issues and how to have the proper mindset psychologically to deal with such. It's constantly telling you to go and do something for your betterment and that of others. You can't just sit around and play armchair hero so to say.
However that cannot be what it means due to how God has stated in that very verse that we may return once they change topics. So it has nothing to do with the company we hang out with otherwise we be told not to be with them whatsoever. But honestly being in the west, I hear sometimes ny friends casuallly saying Christian mockery or God which while this verse isn't talking about those and only the verses of the Quran as I believed, they just briefly make a a mockery and move on. I don't participate on it nor respond, just wait till its over before continuing.
Thus say if it were to make a mockery of the Quran and I avoided by not talking or paying attention till done, I would indeed be damned as a Kaffir!? Even though I believe and don't cover the truth nor say or join the conversing?
That last part seems problemsome. I would understand it simply being a sin but being Kufr seems a bit much and doesn't make much sense either /
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This is great advice. I am in a boat like Lena's. I work with ppl who are so used to joking about their own faith, that they just find it normal to joke with any faith. Example. My mother sends me jokes about God or Jesus, that get sent to her from friends. My family is Catholic and I was raised in a moderately strict christian home. But she does not see these jokes as harmful. Sometimes I don't even think they are aware. This is what happens when you make God.. MAN. Anyway. I can understand how you feel.
Well there is a difference between joking and mocking. I see jokes that happen but I see the Quran mentioning mockery/ridicule which unlike joking which has no intention of damaging, mocking is when one pokea out certain "flaws" in their views and says bad stuff about it. Considering they are saying stuff like that about their own religion and not the verses of God (the Quran) then I see no reason why not to keep close with them. Even so the command is to simply avoid and come back later so its jot like we should avoid such people if they are overall good people )
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Peace Indelwyn.
Funny you mention " Boat". I feel like Noah when he was building the boat. Everyone around you think you are " crazy" , deluded and following " tales of the ancient". It is not easy to ignore those around you.
Sometimes I feel like I am living with "deafs,blinds and mutes". I end up talking to GOD a lot. Maybe I am crazy, thinking one day they will realise! I keep hoping. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
Peace.
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Peace Indelwyn.
Funny you mention " Boat". I feel like Noah when he was building the boat. Everyone around you think you are " crazy" , deluded and following " tales of the ancient". It is not easy to ignore those around you.
Sometimes I feel like I am living with "deafs,blinds and mutes". I end up talking to GOD a lot. Maybe I am crazy, thinking one day they will realise! I keep hoping. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
Peace.
And neither does God tell you to ignore everyone like that. Only move away when they ridicule the "verses" of the Quran and not simply for ridiculing yourself. God said this isn't suppose to be a burdenafterall
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Eurika!!! I think I finally got the solution and I wish for your opinions too.
So lets revisit that verse again and gonna bold 3 words
"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together." (4140)
Rejected AND Ridiculed. That "and " is a very important word as it shows that what must happen is both rejection AND ridicule, not rejection OR ridicule.
I would like to bring you to this horrible site
http//skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm
This is a website that tries to cover the Quran through taking its verses and making them sound bad by saying they are cruel and whatnot. A perfect example of ridicule AND kufr (even though there is no command telling us not to look at such text and only to human to human contact is such a command).
Fact is that the only reason one would be so condemned like that must be cause they are doing the covering of truth and that doesn't come without Ridicule. Ridicule is mocking or bashing and not sinply joking thus why such a word was used. Thus they bash in order to cover the truth. This is further supported by the phrase at the end as it states the hypocrites and kaffirs will go to hell. To become a Kaffir you gotta cover the truth, and that is what this verse is getting at. It doesn't mean simple jokes, or expression of why they believe, but pure covering with ridicule right in your face.
As for being like them... that one I have a guess but not much evidence yet. I think it rather doesn't mean you ARE a Kaffir like 6121 states you are a Mushirk, but states you are simply like them. Thus makes it seem like a big sin but not kufr for just listening as you've done no covering. Not sure why though it would be mentioned that you are like them but for now I conclude here for this till I further understand.
What does everyone think?