question about dress code
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huruf, I am still giggling at "go and get unborn then"!!!!!
I am imagining millions of men going back to be reborn as women,but not a single woman going back to be reborn as male?
Anyway,we know already that "Inna Akramakum inda Allah Atquakum", so let people reflect on that.
Justice and fairness require that we go by GOD s definition only.
Our own views and biases are nothing new ,true or even taken any notice of by either sexes.GOD bless.
Peace. -
Nothing else.
Really mean, so then go and get unborn.
Otherwise you relly make steretypes and generalisations wholesale.
I do not know where you live, by what you say it might be in Saturn, but real life is nto like that poor males tale paying for ex wives who are real witches and so on.
You just don't feel how insulting the whole thing is. Not for me, thank God, I am satisfied with what I have but for many women who have children, just that, yes, and must also be breadwinners and still hear or red the crap some clever ones write.
Real men, do not grudge things to women and are really thankful for the children.
Women look for real men. Many fake it, but it finally it comes out. And there are unfortunately not that many real men. Many keep livng in their dream where women are there for them but not requiring anything they do not fncy. Nothing to do with what the Qur'an teaches. They exact from women, but anything they "give" it burns them like hell, yes, like hell.
So for those who complain about having to pay ex wives, I am gld to hear. It must be so, so, so painful... Oh their wives or their children? Orr for them it all translate as paying the wife because the children life off air?
Who wants that kind of sissy worthless men?
Salaam
You are not consistent. Your post was about how women do everything for men and that their only point in life is to serve men (and you talk about stereotypes after?), my point was it is vise versa. To be fair, we as species live in order to expolit another gender one way or the other, but men clearly have more burden for themselves in their lives. Bearing a child takes 9 months, a man is a slave for his whole life. That is quite the difference. I believe death of species is better than remaining slaves -X
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You are not consistent. Your post was about how women do everything for men and that their only point in life is to serve men (and you talk about stereotypes after?), my point was it is vise versa. To be fair, we as species live in order to expolit another gender one way or the other, but men clearly have more burden for themselves in their lives. Bearing a child takes 9 months, a man is a slave for his whole life. That is quite the difference. I believe death of species is better than remaining slaves -X
Go and read my post, the one you first "answered" obviously you did not read it. Or you resding as people read dthe Qur'an, outting over what the Qur'an say their own idea of what the Qur'an should be saying.
I did not say women do things for men, I said certain men think that women revolve around them, tht everything that is said about women revolves around their usefulness to men.I did not and I will never will say that men do many things for women. They do things for their children, many, many not just deliver them, as you simply put it, but your own thought betray you. That is it. You think women should do things for men and even if it is not there, you see it.
Othe tthan that, I have been lucky to have known real men who relly ressemble the prophets intheir behaviour toward their family and the women in their family and women in general and I do know what they can do and which they would never but never boast about it or parade it. Real men
Your complaints about women smack of spoilt brats complaining about how much they deseive and thy do not get what they want. I won't read that kind of crap, it is deameaning for real males.
Salaam
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Go and read my post, the one you first "answered" obviously you did not read it. Or you resding as people read dthe Qur'an, outting over what the Qur'an say their own idea of what the Qur'an should be saying.
I did not say women do things for men, I said certain men think that women revolve around them, tht everything that is said about women revolves around their usefulness to men.I did not and I will never will say that men do many things for women. They do things for their children, many, many not just deliver them, as you simply put it, but your own thought betray you. That is it. You think women should do things for men and even if it is not there, you see it.
Othe tthan that, I have been lucky to have known real men who relly ressemble the prophets intheir behaviour toward their family and the women in their family and women in general and I do know what they can do and which they would never but never boast about it or parade it. Real men
Your complaints about women smack of spoilt brats complaining about how much they deseive and thy do not get what they want. I won't read that kind of crap, it is deameaning for real males.
Salaam
Excellent answer. Took a while to understand it, try using spell check next time. I never said I believe women owe anything to men. As I said, people exploit the opposite gender, it is natural for us, I don't mean it is good. Your idea of "real men" circles not around prophets, but around your own cultural perception of what a real man is. Prophetic husbands is just an excuse. Such as when you tell that 'real men' in their behavior care towards their family AND women in their family AND women in general. Reminds me of how Muslims persuade others to blindly follow their Arabic religion, by saying Qur'an AND the Sunna AND the Family AND the traditions AND the shahada AND the traditions of the followers of Islam AND the traditions of Muhhammad associates.
Real men choose for themselves what to do, and whom to take care of Real men as opposite to slaves who have to work until their mid 30's to get a chance to marry someone of their age, but who had already met 60 guys so she probably knows more about what a real man is how men should treat her )
Now on the side note. It is clear that some people just fail to understand what others are talking about and call them whiners in case they speak something which opposes the common misbelief regarding the purity and holiness of women. Not sure where she saw me whinning, I was just kindly elaborating my stance on what is going on in CONTEMPORARY societies.
Some people here such as good logic met their wives during the World War II or something (sarcasm but the point is, they met their wives during another ERA, where social values were DIFFERENT) and they have no clue what these days sexual market is. Their conservative values have no value today, women pursue resources AND sex (as opposite to protection and stability as before), men pursue sex (as opposite to genuine companions for themselves). There is no place for mutual care or understanding. Men are becoming slaves, it is so easy to see it is actually funny how I have to explain all this.
You can throw stones at me as much as you want, but truth is truth.
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Indeed. That sums it up much better than any comment I could make. That shows what comes first for whom and all the crap about cultural biases and other mumbo-jumbo.
Salaam
I did not really expect anything in return, except a failure to write a coherent answer and instead praising Faith's one line comment as he takes a single phrase of mine out of context, similarly as he does with his Flat Earth. Accepts few silly arguments of theirs and uses it right and left ) Yep, indeed a shame. giveup
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Makaveli - what do you believe the male responsibility to be?
You claim you're slaves till 30's but reality is you are part of a society and have the power to change things provided you find someone who is in agreement with your thinking/views or could compromise. It's not easy but it is possible. Also the things people value will differ regardless of what era, people will always desire things and that's just human nature.
Lots of families ask for large sums for mahr which is ridiculous but how many people do you know actually give this mahr. it seems to be more of a telling than an actual deed from what I have seen.
We're all slaves, men and women. Your views are just biased and I assume based on bitter cultural/societal expectations as well as the ease in how people meet others and their specific preferences.
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Makaveli - what do you believe the male responsibility to be?
You claim you're slaves till 30's but reality is you are part of a society and have the power to change things provided you find someone who is in agreement with your thinking/views or could compromise. It's not easy but it is possible. Also the things people value will differ regardless of what era, people will always desire things and that's just human nature.
Lots of families ask for large sums for mahr which is ridiculous but how many people do you know actually give this mahr. it seems to be more of a telling than an actual deed from what I have seen.
We're all slaves, men and women. Your views are just biased and I assume based on bitter cultural/societal expectations as well as the ease in how people meet others and their specific preferences.
It depends on what we percieve as men. The way how average members of soceity, both men and women, behave is not similar to the way how believing people behave. I believe that the responsibility of a believing man is to marry a chaste beliving woman, pay her from his wealth (55) and treat her kindly (419). That is however not how most so called 'believing men' act. They are often dull in what they choose, they choose women solely by looks and with the sole goal of pleasing themselves, and they mary women who are not chaste and pursuse materialistic and wordly pleasures, and then they wonder why would she act not the way he believes she should act. Many believing women, in contrast, take the "pay them compensation" part to the extreme so that they look for man who is rich and then wonder why does he treat them as an object, even though there is almost no opportunities for someone to become rich and not use people as objects, except in a few rare cases but then again there is a high probability that this person will become arrogant.
It is about choices that we make and the amount of faith that we invest in our everyday lives. That is why a lot of religious communities are perverted, so the society as a whole becomes either too feministic or too patriarchal, and neither of these extremes are righteous or good for people, because they establish tyranny of some sort. That is why some societies introduce religious versions of prostitution, such as temporary marriages or civil unions or domestic partnerships, just to find an excuse to act in accordance with their wordly desires, because their society is unbalanced in terms of finding sexual partners. But they act arrogantly and selfish because there are members of society who cannot afford a spouse (either due to lack of certain financial threshold or due to physical incompatibility, such as illness or disability or because he/she cannot 'integrate' in society and accept the rules of the 'game', but they care not about those, those are treated like useless trash, becasue the meaning of the marriage between two believers is either paganistic or straight atheistic in these so called religious soceity. And by religioin I mean secular societies too, of course. My views on religion are not limited to Islam.
My point was that if we blame men for being those who believe that women owe them everything, then the same is true about women who now have way more civic rights than men, at least in most industrialized societies. Right now it is almost impossible to find a young woman who acts in accordance with faith as described in Qur'an or similar teachings (regarding their parts on marital regulations).
There is no power to change society except through violent means which I did support before when I was inspired by socialist ideas, but I have now change my views on it.
People may become marginalized in any era, i.e. some people may percieve things to work differently than that of general society and this makes them marginalized, but there are vast differences between the views of marriage and families in say the first half of the 20th century U.S. and now.
My views are based on personal observations, experience and contemplation, to be exact. We can philosophize on what is biased, if we take two colors, red and green, and they will appear different to the color blind, but the common understanding of things i.e. how general society views them requires some level of generalization.
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I did not really expect anything in return, except a failure to write a coherent answer and instead praising Faith's one line comment as he takes a single phrase of mine out of context, similarly as he does with his Flat Earth. Accepts few silly arguments of theirs and uses it right and left Yep, indeed a shame. giveup
?Poor Makaveli! Feeling obliged to bring in flat earth to discredit somebody on quite a different question... Sad.
...responsibility of a believing man is to marry a chaste beliving woman...
Provided the believing man is also chaste, otherwise the Qur'an is quite clear.
Salaam
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?Poor Makaveli! Feeling obliged to bring in flat earth to discredit somebody on quite a different question... Sad.
Now that you've used your intelligence capacity to the maximum and even learned to use spellcheck on your iphone, I must say you are slowly but surely turning better. Hope a real man will appreciate you for who you are and add a dictionary and a book on feminine etiquette to your mahr.
And, as a real man I proudly grant you the right of the last word in this 'debate' (more like a tennis match really, than a debate). sun
Provided the believing man is also chaste, otherwise the Qur'an is quite clear.
Key phrase is a 'believing' person.
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Key phrase is a 'believing' person.
That key phrase you did not consider enough for a woman, since you also added chaste, so, beside that silly task of giving birth to new beings she also seems to have extra task of being chaste, according to your appreciation.
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Thanks all for this discussion! Are there any verses that state how men and women should dress during prayer? I don't see in the ayat about wudu that women need to cover everything when they pray? Any logic to this?
Edip at some point discussed this issue https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQGmPJY-Lbo
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Thanks all for this discussion! Are there any verses that state how men and women should dress during prayer? I don't see in the ayat about wudu that women need to cover everything when they pray? Any logic to this?
Quran provides the answer, see http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent of it...
In other words, women can reveal what is ordinarily apparent/visible, and what that is is discussed in the link above. So same goes for during the regular/timed salat of the mumineen.
