A question regarding the concept of Oath of Engagement
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Ok, you may render it as humanity. The point is, that it refers to a group of at least 3 people. To make things simple, let's assume that four people are being addressed; Jack, Steve, John, and Mike (Cool names huh?).
Not nearly as cool as Hussein, Hassan, Nyma and Muhammad! or Jack, Steve, John and of course Nyma! but nice try.
If any one from you four cannot marry an Al Muhsanat il Mominat, then he may marry anyone of those who your oaths possess from your believing Fatayat
Ok please help me understand where i've gone wrong here
And whoever of you is unable to tawlan to marry the believing independent females, then (he/you. is there a he or you here at all?) marry from what your oaths possess of the believing dependent women.
Without the he or you we get
And whoever of you is unable to tawlan to marry the believing independent females, then marry from what your oaths posess of the believing dependent women.
My uncertainty is on whether we should take famin to refer to he or you. If we take it as you, or just exclude he or you, then there is no problem. If we take it as he, that is where there is a problem with regards to my understanding of MMA at 425.
So whats your take on
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(42510)
which occurs at
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=25?
Don't apologise. I owe you thanksThank you!
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Not nearly as cool as Hussein, Hassan, Nyma and Muhammad! or Jack, Steve, John and of course Nyma! but nice try.
lol, by the way, where are you from?
Ok please help me understand where i've gone wrong here
And whoever of you is unable to tawlan to marry the believing independent females, then (he/you. is there a he or you here at all?) marry from what your oaths possess of the believing dependent women.
Without the he or you we get
And whoever of you is unable to tawlan to marry the believing independent females, then marry from what your oaths posess of the believing dependent women.
My uncertainty is on whether we should take famin to refer to he or you. If we take it as you, or just exclude he or you, then there is no problem. If we take it as he, that is where there is a problem with regards to my understanding of MMA at 425.
In reality, there isn't a 'Marry' or a 'He/You/She'. Literally its 'So from who you rightfully possess from your Fatayat'. However, God I don't think talks like a robot, that He'd literally repeat each and every verb and noun. At the moment I can't get references, but I'm sure there are several examples of this. So technically the reason I add 'He should/may marry' is because the subject is that particular 'He' from the group of Muslims/humanity, and the verb 'He' is doing is 'Marrying' an Al Muhsanat il Mominat, thus if he doesn't have tawlan 'An yankiha al Muhsanat il Mominat' (He marries an Al Muhsanat ul Mominat', 'Fa' (So) Min Ma Malakat Aymanukum Min Fatayatikum al Mominat' ( From who you rightfulyl possess from your believing Fatayat). Besides, if we take it as 'You', how would you explain it? I mean, I don't think there can be a reasonable interpretation of the verse.
So whats your take on
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(42510)
which occurs at
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=25?
I don't get it, where does 'Bism' appear in 425?
Don't apologise. I owe you thanks
Thank you!
Your welcome
My answers in bold
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I'm British-Iranian (dual national)
you?Ok thanks. I've got like an answer to your other question but its kinda late now and I haven't checked to see if it works yet. I'l get back to you soon though.
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I'm British-Iranian (dual national)
you?Ok thanks. I've got like an answer to your other question but its kinda late now and I haven't checked to see if it works yet. I'l get back to you soon though.
Your around 21-22 years old right?
Looking forward to your reply.
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there was this interpretation of 424 that all protected/committed women are prohibited except for MMA, where the interpretation stated that MMA refers to those with whom one has the 'Oath of Engagement'. Based on that it further stated that the Muhsanat in 425 refers to those who are already under one's Oath of Engagement.
Assalamu Alaykum.
I think the your interpretation is wrong for both verses, and that's where the confusion comes in.
Here is my interpretation of the two verses. I believe my interpretation is correct (obviously).
"MMA" in Qur'an 424 is used when Allah is saying that we may remain married to our wives. "MMA" here refers to those women we are already married to.
"MMA" (in context "women from MMA" in Qur'an 425 is referring to slave women of the people the Muslims at the time of the Qur'an's revelation had conquered. "MMA" here refers to conquered people, which makes sense because "MMA" literally means "those whom your (plural) right hands possess."
My reasoning is a LOOOOONG read. If you're up for it, then here it is
InshaAllah I'll break down what each verse means, as each verse uses the same terms but the terms mean different things. I hope you'll be able to understand, as this gets a little complicated.
Qur'an 424 - "Also 'MUHSINAAT', except those whom your right hands possess (MMA)...."
According to the majority of both Shia and Sunni scholars, and according to the context, in this verse, 'MUHSINAAT' (literally meaning women who are strong, fortified) refers to a married women. Thus, this verse seems to make it clear that all married women are haraam for us to marry, except those who we are already married to. MMA in this verse refers to women who we are already married to, in my opinion. Allah is telling us that we are forbidden from marriage to a married woman unless we are the woman's husband. While it may seem like Allah is pointing out the obvious, it just seems like He is clearing up any confusion before the people get confused.
Qur'an 425 - "If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed 'MUHSINAAT', they may wed believing girls from among those whom your (plural) right hands possess (MMA)....Wed them with the leave of their 'AHL'..."
MMA in this verse refers to slave girls. I'll explain why later.
'MUHSINAAT' in this verse, again according to Shia and Sunni scholars and according to context, seems to mean the literal meaning of the word chaste, strong women. Allah is saying if we cannot marry chaste, strong women, then we may marry among those whom "your (plural) right hands possess" (MMA) and "with the permission of their people" ('AHL' means "people".
The reasons why "women from MMA" refers to slaves in this verse is because 1) the literal meaning of MMA is "Those whom your (plural) right hands possess" and can refer to those people whom the Muslims of that time had conquered and thus "possessed with their right hands", 2) The requirement to marry with the permission of a woman from MMA's "people" implies that women from MMA refers to conquered people and that a Muslim would need permission from these conquered people to marry one of their women and 3) this is the only meaning that would make sense in this case. Also, looking at history and the time period in which this verse was revealed, we can also see that it means slaves from conquered people. Let me break it down inshaAllah
#1 If MMA refers to conquered people, and Allah says to marry from their believing women, then this makes sense. Many of the conquered people at that time were Christians and Jews. Men are allowed to marry Christians and Jews according to other verses in the Qur'an. So Allah is telling us that we may marry a Christian woman or a Jewish woman from among those people we conquered, with the permission of the people themselves.
#2 We are allowed to marry these women only if we cannot marry MUHSINAAT, or "strong, chaste women." At this time period, the slave girls of "those whom your right hands possess" were usually prostitutes. So therefore they were not MUHSINAAT, or "strong, chaste women" which is why Allah separates them into two categories for the purposes of this verse MUHSINAAT and women from MMA.
#3 We are commanded to marry women from MMA ONLY with the permission of their AHL, or "people." Everywhere else in the Qur'an where Allah mentions the requirements for marriage, He does not include the requirement to have the permission of the woman's people. So therefore, it's clear that MMA in this verse is NOT the same type of women that Allah is talking about in every other verse when it comes to marriage.
#4 Women from MMA, according to the rest of Qur'an 425, are prescribed only half the punishment for adultery as a 'MUHSINAAT' is prescribed. This must mean that women from MMA were most likely not going to be chaste people to begin with, so they are only punished half.
#5 Reading the verse carefully, it all makes sense if we interpret "women from MMA" as meaning "women from the conquered peoples." Furthermore, Allah at the end of the verse tells us that this is for people who fear that they will fornicate with women if they do not marry, and He says that "but it is better for you to practice self-restraint, if ye but knew." So it seems that Allah is warning us against marrying these women because they are not on the same caliber as MUHSINAAT (chaste, strong Muslim women).
#6 According to some Shia and Sunni scholars, 'MUHSINAAT' comes with the implied meaning of "free women" as well. So this would mean that MUHSINAAT, or free, strong, chaste women, are contrasted with "women from MMA", or girls of the conquered Christian and Jewish people who are understood to be slaves by the context.
So "women from MMA" refers to slave girls from the conquered Christian/Jewish people, but at the very least it refers to the women in general (free or slave) of conquered Christian/Jewish people.
As we can see, this verse doesn't apply in today's society since slavery no longer exists, and since there is no longer a Muslim state (and thus, no Christian/Jewish people conquered by Muslims). And no, I don't consider places like Saudi Arabia to be a true, Shari`a Muslim state. It is a perversion of what a Muslim state should be.
If you read all of this, JazakAllahu Khayr because that deserves some good deeds your way with Ramadan haha
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"MMA" here refers to conquered people, which makes sense because "MMA" literally means "those whom your (plural) right hands possess."
Peace, where exactly is "those" in verse referring to people?
what possess your right hands
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Peace, where exactly is "those" in verse referring to people?
what possess your right hands
Salaam.
Yes, I know "maa" in Arabic means "what". But the two verses here are speaking of either Muhsinaat (chaste, strong women) or 'Al-mu'minaat famin ma malakat aymnaakum" (The female believers from what your right hands possess", so it is clear here that MMA refers to people, either our own wives as in 424 or conquered peoples (implied through context and through knowledge of the time period) in 425.
I said "those whom your right hands possess" because referring to people as "what your right hands possess" is awkward wording in English.
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Salaam.
Yes, I know "maa" in Arabic means "what". But the two verses here are speaking of either Muhsinaat (chaste, strong women) or 'Al-mu'minaat famin ma malakat aymnaakum" (The female believers from what your right hands possess", so it is clear here that MMA refers to people, either our own wives as in 424 or conquered peoples (implied through context and through knowledge of the time period) in 425.
Are you sure you are not working history backwards taking interpretation of slave owners to justify slavery?
424 w-al-mu--a-na-t from al-nisa/women only what possess your right hands
What does the phrase their right hands symbolize; concerning other people or pertaining to the individual?
717 furthermore I will come to them from between their hands and from behind them and from their right hands and from their left and not you find most of them thankful
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Assalamu Alaykum.
I think the your interpretation is wrong for both verses, and that's where the confusion comes in.
Here is my interpretation of the two verses. I believe my interpretation is correct (obviously).
"MMA" in Qur'an 424 is used when Allah is saying that we may remain married to our wives. "MMA" here refers to those women we are already married to.
"MMA" (in context "women from MMA" in Qur'an 425 is referring to slave women of the people the Muslims at the time of the Qur'an's revelation had conquered. "MMA" here refers to conquered people, which makes sense because "MMA" literally means "those whom your (plural) right hands possess."
My reasoning is a LOOOOONG read. If you're up for it, then here it is
InshaAllah I'll break down what each verse means, as each verse uses the same terms but the terms mean different things. I hope you'll be able to understand, as this gets a little complicated.
Qur'an 424 - "Also 'MUHSINAAT', except those whom your right hands possess (MMA)...."
According to the majority of both Shia and Sunni scholars, and according to the context, in this verse, 'MUHSINAAT' (literally meaning women who are strong, fortified) refers to a married women. Thus, this verse seems to make it clear that all married women are haraam for us to marry, except those who we are already married to. MMA in this verse refers to women who we are already married to, in my opinion. Allah is telling us that we are forbidden from marriage to a married woman unless we are the woman's husband. While it may seem like Allah is pointing out the obvious, it just seems like He is clearing up any confusion before the people get confused.
Qur'an 425 - "If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed 'MUHSINAAT', they may wed believing girls from among those whom your (plural) right hands possess (MMA)....Wed them with the leave of their 'AHL'..."
MMA in this verse refers to slave girls. I'll explain why later.
'MUHSINAAT' in this verse, again according to Shia and Sunni scholars and according to context, seems to mean the literal meaning of the word chaste, strong women. Allah is saying if we cannot marry chaste, strong women, then we may marry among those whom "your (plural) right hands possess" (MMA) and "with the permission of their people" ('AHL' means "people".
The reasons why "women from MMA" refers to slaves in this verse is because 1) the literal meaning of MMA is "Those whom your (plural) right hands possess" and can refer to those people whom the Muslims of that time had conquered and thus "possessed with their right hands", 2) The requirement to marry with the permission of a woman from MMA's "people" implies that women from MMA refers to conquered people and that a Muslim would need permission from these conquered people to marry one of their women and 3) this is the only meaning that would make sense in this case. Also, looking at history and the time period in which this verse was revealed, we can also see that it means slaves from conquered people. Let me break it down inshaAllah
#1 If MMA refers to conquered people, and Allah says to marry from their believing women, then this makes sense. Many of the conquered people at that time were Christians and Jews. Men are allowed to marry Christians and Jews according to other verses in the Qur'an. So Allah is telling us that we may marry a Christian woman or a Jewish woman from among those people we conquered, with the permission of the people themselves.
#2 We are allowed to marry these women only if we cannot marry MUHSINAAT, or "strong, chaste women." At this time period, the slave girls of "those whom your right hands possess" were usually prostitutes. So therefore they were not MUHSINAAT, or "strong, chaste women" which is why Allah separates them into two categories for the purposes of this verse MUHSINAAT and women from MMA.
#3 We are commanded to marry women from MMA ONLY with the permission of their AHL, or "people." Everywhere else in the Qur'an where Allah mentions the requirements for marriage, He does not include the requirement to have the permission of the woman's people. So therefore, it's clear that MMA in this verse is NOT the same type of women that Allah is talking about in every other verse when it comes to marriage.
#4 Women from MMA, according to the rest of Qur'an 425, are prescribed only half the punishment for adultery as a 'MUHSINAAT' is prescribed. This must mean that women from MMA were most likely not going to be chaste people to begin with, so they are only punished half.
#5 Reading the verse carefully, it all makes sense if we interpret "women from MMA" as meaning "women from the conquered peoples." Furthermore, Allah at the end of the verse tells us that this is for people who fear that they will fornicate with women if they do not marry, and He says that "but it is better for you to practice self-restraint, if ye but knew." So it seems that Allah is warning us against marrying these women because they are not on the same caliber as MUHSINAAT (chaste, strong Muslim women).
#6 According to some Shia and Sunni scholars, 'MUHSINAAT' comes with the implied meaning of "free women" as well. So this would mean that MUHSINAAT, or free, strong, chaste women, are contrasted with "women from MMA", or girls of the conquered Christian and Jewish people who are understood to be slaves by the context.
So "women from MMA" refers to slave girls from the conquered Christian/Jewish people, but at the very least it refers to the women in general (free or slave) of conquered Christian/Jewish people.
As we can see, this verse doesn't apply in today's society since slavery no longer exists, and since there is no longer a Muslim state (and thus, no Christian/Jewish people conquered by Muslims). And no, I don't consider places like Saudi Arabia to be a true, Shari`a Muslim state. It is a perversion of what a Muslim state should be.
If you read all of this, JazakAllahu Khayr because that deserves some good deeds your way with Ramadan haha
Salam, honestly speaking, I read the 2/3 of it, and skimmed through the last third. The interpretation which you think is mine, is not actually mine. It is Nyma's interpretation, and I am trying to work with him to solve the problem that has occurred in his interpretation through this thread. MY INTERPRETATION happens to be 80% what your interpretation is. I too believe that 424 refers to 'Married women except those married by you', I too believe that MMA is a broad term that has meanings depending on context, I also believe that Muhsanat is a broad term that has two possible meanings depending on context Protected by means of marriage, unmarried but self protected. The only place where I differ with you is Fatayat. I believe that Ahl refers to family, it may refer to people as well, but in my opinion it refers to family. And Fatayat refers to servants, not slaves, and MMA from Fatayat refers to those who are taken under guardianship from the servants.
I also believe that these marriages are actually disliked by God, because of God's saying This is for those who fear distress/hardship, and to be patient is better.
However, the purpose of this thread is not my opinion, but Nyma's interpretation. So I would like it if people don't go off topic. )
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Are you sure you are not working history backwards taking interpretation of slave owners to justify slavery?
424 w-al-mu--a-na-t from al-nisa/women only what possess your right hands
What does the phrase their right hands symbolize; concerning other people or pertaining to the individual?
717 furthermore I will come to them from between their hands and from behind them and from their right hands and from their left and not you find most of them thankful
I partially agree with you. MMA is actually a respectful term.
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Are you sure you are not working history backwards taking interpretation of slave owners to justify slavery?
424 w-al-mu--a-na-t from al-nisa/women only what possess your right hands
What does the phrase their right hands symbolize; concerning other people or pertaining to the individual?
717 furthermore I will come to them from between their hands and from behind them and from their right hands and from their left and not you find most of them thankful
The phrase "What your right hands possess" refers to items that the people in general have ownership over. Allah often uses MMA when talking about people, so a convenient way to translate it would be "Those whom your right hands possess" since that's often the meaning in the Qur'an.
Your quoting of Qur'an 717 is an entirely different use of "Right hands". In 424, it is an idiomatic phrase. Just as Allah says in the ending verses of Surat al-Balad (Surah 90) "Companions of the Right Hand" and "Companions of the Left Hand." That doesn't mean the people going to Jannah will be companions of a literal right hand, because that implies 1) something illogical (friends of a hand, not of Allah) and 2) something blasphemous (that Allah has a literal hand). So we cannot assume that the use of "Right hand" in Surat al-Balad is a literal "right hand." Similarly, it's clear that MMA is an idiomatic use of "right hand," meaning something more along the lines of "Your possessions."
The use of the phrase "right hand" was a common Arabic idiom, and even today in the English language it's a common idiom.
But "illa" means "except", not "only." You translated it as "only" in your quoting of 424. And "thumm" means a stressed "Then", not "furthermore" as you quoted it in 717.
Also, I'm not reworking history. It's common knowledge regarding the prominence of slavery in 7th century Arabia. I'm taking my own statements regarding slaves from other tribes from scholars like Abu Hanifa and from scholars who have written tafseer on these verses. Obviously, I disagree with many of their conclusions on many issues but on this issue I agree with them. Furthermore, they lived around the same time period (9th century Arabia, not too far removed) and they had access to tabi`een i.e. those taught by the sahaba. So in this case, I'm sure their conclusions are both accurate and have a strong basis.
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The phrase "What your right hands possess" refers to items that the people in general have ownership over. Allah often uses MMA when talking about people, so a convenient way to translate it would be "Those whom your right hands possess" since that's often the meaning in the Qur'an.
Is verse about people/slaves or that provided you; means, resources, wherewithal, mental, financial, in ones grasp/control?
3028 shows to you example from yourselves shall to you from what possess your right hands from/any partners in what We have provided you so you in it alike?
But "illa" means "except", not "only." You translated it as "only" in your quoting of 424. And "thumm" means a stressed "Then", not "furthermore" as you quoted it in 717.
7029 and the ones who they of their private parts guardians
7030 only over their spouses or what possess their right hands so indeed they not blameworthy"only" is closer to the Arabic (e.g. you have no control over being forcefully strip searched).
"furthermore" i.e. simultaneous act vs. using sequential "then" which causes contradictions.Also, I'm not reworking history. It's common knowledge regarding the prominence of slavery in 7th century Arabia. I'm taking my own statements regarding slaves from other tribes from scholars like Abu Hanifa and from scholars who have written tafseer on these verses. Obviously, I disagree with many of their conclusions on many issues but on this issue I agree with them. Furthermore, they lived around the same time period (9th century Arabia, not too far removed) and they had access to tabi`een i.e. those taught by the sahaba. So in this case, I'm sure their conclusions are both accurate and have a strong basis.
What does slavery at the time and today have to do with them interpreting verses incorrectly to further justify slavery?
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Is verse about people/slaves or that provided you; means, resources, wherewithal, mental, financial, in ones grasp/control?
3028 shows to you example from yourselves shall to you from what possess your right hands from/any partners in what We have provided you so you in it alike?
7029 and the ones who they of their private parts guardians
7030 only over their spouses or what possess their right hands so indeed they not blameworthy"only" is closer to the Arabic (e.g. you have no control over being forcefully strip searched).
"furthermore" i.e. simultaneous act vs. using sequential "then" which causes contradictions.What does slavery at the time and today have to do with them interpreting verses incorrectly to further justify slavery?
MMA doesn't mean the same thing in every verse, but in the verse you quoted it again refers to slaves. It makes sense---Allah is giving the people an example of what they used to do. They used to not give their slaves an equal share of their wealth and they did not give slaves equal status with themselves.
How would MMA mean "wife" (as it does in 424), or "resources" (or any synonym to resource, as you stated in your question to me) in 3028? That would either mean that Allah is OK with us not giving our wives equality (haraam, so no) or that Allah is saying "Do you make your resources equal in status to yourself?" That makes no sense, as nobody shares social status with their resources and it's logically nonsensical to say that we share wealth with our money.
This verse speaks of slaves, and Allah is saying (to paraphrase) "just as you don't share your status with your slaves, I do not share my exalted Status with My slaves"
In response to your second question, slavery is strongly discouraged, but not haraam. Allah encourages us in multiple places in the Qur'an to free our slaves, but not once in the Qur'an does He say that having a slave is haraam. In fact, the opposite is applied since the punishment for some sins is to free a slave or fast if we do not have slaves. Why would Allah only require us to free slaves if we commit a sin, as opposed to freeing them no matter what, if slavery was haraam?
And even if we have slaves, we are commanded to treat them justly in other places in the Qur'an.
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Your around 21-22 years old right?
Looking forward to your reply.
I'm very impressed. You write really well. Conversations with you are awesome and you've pointed out something that no one else picked up on.
Good guess, I'm 23
I've got to apologise to you because i've prioritised the other thread more and so my reply to you has been delayed. This is kind of because there is more to reply in that thread than there is here and also I've been in London since Monday and i've been like really busy and the replies in the other thread are quicker to reply to. I will reply to you with what I hope might solve the issue later on today. -
MMA doesn't mean the same thing in every verse, but in the verse you quoted it again refers to slaves. It makes sense---Allah is giving the people an example of what they used to do. They used to not give their slaves an equal share of their wealth and they did not give slaves equal status with themselves.
This verse speaks of slaves, and Allah is saying (to paraphrase) "just as you don't share your status with your slaves, I do not share my exalted Status with My slaves"
How would MMA mean "wife" (as it does in 424)
Do not put words in Qur'an that are not there. 424 is continuation of prohibition of mixing between sisters "and" women/wives unless one is capable financially mentally etc.
423 prohibited onto you your mothers and your daughters...
... and that you gathered between the two sisters only what hence passed indeed The God is Forgiving Merciful 424 and al-mu-h-sa-na-t from al-nisa/women only what possess your right hands/meansor "resources" (or any synonym to resource, as you stated in your question to me) in 3028?
That would either mean that Allah is OK with us not giving our wives equality (haraam, so no) or that Allah is saying "Do you make your resources equal in status to yourself?" That makes no sense, as nobody shares social status with their resources and it's logically nonsensical to say that we share wealth with our money.
Read correctly that what does not make any sense is inserting (sex slaves) in the verse...
3028 shows to you example from yourselves shall to you from what possess your right hands (i.e. means, resources, wherewithal, etc.) from/any partners in what We have provided you so you in it alike you fear them as you fear yourselves like that We clarify the verses/signs for people who reason
In response to your second question, slavery is strongly discouraged, but not haraam. Allah encourages us in multiple places in the Qur'an to free our slaves, but not once in the Qur'an does He say that having a slave is haraam. In fact, the opposite is applied since the punishment for some sins is to free a slave or fast if we do not have slaves. Why would Allah only require us to free slaves if we commit a sin, as opposed to freeing them no matter what, if slavery was haraam?
And even if we have slaves, we are commanded to treat them justly in other places in the Qur'an.
Yes free a neck, bust open a slave owners or pimps head is encouraged -- how is that condoning slavery?
According to you Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan justified taking sex slaves then free them if they error? -
I'm very impressed. You write really well. Conversations with you are awesome and you've pointed out something that no one else picked up on.
Good guess, I'm 23
I've got to apologise to you because i've prioritised the other thread more and so my reply to you has been delayed. This is kind of because there is more to reply in that thread than there is here and also I've been in London since Monday and i've been like really busy and the replies in the other thread are quicker to reply to. I will reply to you with what I hope might solve the issue later on today.Thanks
It's ok, take your time.
Btw what is that 'Other thread'? I'd like to see what discussion is going on.
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The phrase "What your right hands possess" refers to items that the people in general have ownership over.
It is NOT a phrase. It is a past tense complete Verbal Sentence. Phrase and sebtebce are mutually exclusive. The sentence also has a Phrase in it-a Possessive Phrase "the right hands of you people". The elided object of Verb referring back to Gerneral Relative Pronoun in the beggining can mean "an object, objects, a woman, women, a man, or men" to be determined by other text relating to this verbal sentence.
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MMA doesn't mean the same thing in every verse, but in the verse you quoted it again refers to slaves. It makes sense---Allah is giving the people an example of what they used to do. They used to not give their slaves an equal share of their wealth and they did not give slaves equal status with themselves.
How would MMA mean "wife" (as it does in 424), or "resources" (or any synonym to resource, as you stated in your question to me) in 3028? That would either mean that Allah is OK with us not giving our wives equality (haraam, so no) or that Allah is saying "Do you make your resources equal in status to yourself?" That makes no sense, as nobody shares social status with their resources and it's logically nonsensical to say that we share wealth with our money.
This verse speaks of slaves, and Allah is saying (to paraphrase) "just as you don't share your status with your slaves, I do not share my exalted Status with My slaves"
In response to your second question, slavery is strongly discouraged, but not haraam. Allah encourages us in multiple places in the Qur'an to free our slaves, but not once in the Qur'an does He say that having a slave is haraam. In fact, the opposite is applied since the punishment for some sins is to free a slave or fast if we do not have slaves. Why would Allah only require us to free slaves if we commit a sin, as opposed to freeing them no matter what, if slavery was haraam?
And even if we have slaves, we are commanded to treat them justly in other places in the Qur'an.
Very interesting . So according to you, I could quranically buy 100 male slave and have sex with them all? Would I according to the Quran be allowed to rent out my male slaves to my female friends for sexual purposes? And what should I do according to the Quran if one of my male slave refuse to have sex with me or my female friends ? Shall we then sell him or rape him ?
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Do not put words in Qur'an that are not there. 424 is continuation of prohibition of mixing between sisters "and" women/wives unless one is capable financially mentally etc.
423 prohibited onto you your mothers and your daughters...
... and that you gathered between the two sisters only what hence passed indeed The God is Forgiving Merciful 424 and al-mu-h-sa-na-t from al-nisa/women only what possess your right hands/meansRead my first post again I've shown how MMA refers to the wife in 424.
424 - "And al-muhsinaat from the women EXCEPT what your right hands possess..." In other words, we are forbidden from being married to married women except "what our right hands possess" i.e. our wives. This wording is used by Allah to clear up any confusion.
Plain and simple 425 introduces a new requirement for marriage AND it introduces a reduced punishment for "Al-mu'minaat famin MMA". Why would Allah, if He is talking about the same exact group of women (i.e. free Muslim women), suddenly switch mid-verse from the word "Al-Muhsinaat" to "Al-mu'minaat famin MMA"? And why would Allah mention the need to seek permission from the woman's "people" and why would Allah mention a reduced punishment for the sin of adultery ONLY when talking about "Al-mu'minaat famin MMA" and NOT for "Al-muhsinaat" here in this Surah nor for "An-nisaa'" in other places in the Qur'an where He talks about marriage?
Read correctly that what does not make any sense is inserting (sex slaves) in the verse...
3028 shows to you example from yourselves shall to you from what possess your right hands (i.e. means, resources, wherewithal, etc.) from/any partners in what We have provided you so you in it alike you fear them as you fear yourselves like that We clarify the verses/signs for people who reason
Read the post you quoted again to see why "resources" makes zero sense. It seems more like you're the one putting words in the Qur'an that are not there.
And, where did I say "sex slave"? Sex slaves are haraam that's why Allah says "If you find not the means to marry Al-muhsinaat, THEN MARRY THE BELIEVING WOMEN FROM WHAT YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESSES"
So your argument is useless because nobody is arguing for sex slaves, and I have not even used that terminology.
Yes free a neck, bust open a slave owners or pimps head is encouraged -- how is that condoning slavery?
There's a difference between "Condoning" and "Allowing". Allah allows slavery. He doesn't condone (i.e. support) it.
And if you disagree with this, then show me one verse in the Qur'an where Allah declares slavery to be forbidden.
I'll point out multiple places in the Qur'an in which it would not make any sense if slavery was forbidden
"O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman..." - Qur'an 2178
"Do not marry unbelieving women, until they believe A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry to unbelievers until they believe A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you..." - Qur'an 2221 - This verse in a way connects back to 425. Allah is saying here that it is better to marry a slave than an unbeliever, and Allah tells us in 425 that if we fear committing a sin, then marry a slave girl
And finally, this was the verse I mentioned in an earlier post as showing slavery to not be forbidden
Never should a believer kill a believer but by mistake. If one kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave. If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, a fast for two months running by way of repentance to Allah for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom. - Qur'an 492
If slavery was haraam, Allah would not decree a punishment of freeing a slave if one accidentally kills a believer. That would make no sense since all slaves would be free no matter what if slavery was haraam.
According to you Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan justified taking sex slaves then free them if they error?
Never did I say or even imply sex slaves. I'm not sure how one can come to such an illogical conclusion when my entire argument is that Allah is commanding us in 425 to marry slave girls if we cannot resist committing the sin of fornication.
Furthermore, don't disrespect the troops of my country committed to fighting for their various reasons. I personally know people in the American military, and they're not all sinning sex fiends like you seem to try to portray them as.