Questions on the preservation of the Quran
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Do you have a reference for this please?
4.44 Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book? they traffic in error, and wish that ye should lose the right path.
10.37 This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
Moses was given The Book, Jesus was given The Book, Muhammed was given The Book but each are a portion of THE BOOK and each confirm each other. Quran is the final chapter in The Book.
Salaam,
Thats a really interesting point. It makes sense that the 'original' is held in safekeeping by God and all the faiths had a portion of the Book.
Its so easy for mistakes/mistranslations/distortions to occur and it does seem logical that the original is with God while we make a fine mess of the one's left in our safekeeping.
Enjoyed that joke about the priests and celebrate vs celibacy laugh
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Do you have a reference for this please?
4.44 Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book? they traffic in error, and wish that ye should lose the right path.
10.37 This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
Moses was given The Book, Jesus was given The Book, Muhammed was given The Book but each are a portion of THE BOOK and each confirm each other. Quran is the final chapter in The Book.
Thanks for clarifying your point.
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I would like to give two simply points which maybe helpful to understand the elimination of last two verses of sura At tawbah
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God preserve Al quran by mathematical code ( code 19 ) to prevent Al quran from any fabrication , distortion or tampering . This code acts like a safety features embedded in currency notes to differentiate the genuine from counterfeit notes .
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Sura At tawbah is a unique sura in Al quran i.e the only one ( out of 114 sura ) without ' basmallah ' on top of the sura . It is believed that basmallah represent as a letterhead for every sura in Al quran .Without this letterhead ( olso known as god's stamped seal ) it's has been assumed that surah At tawbah has been contaminated (contain irregularities ) somewhere within . So code 19 is used to identify the culprits and as a result the last two verses are discarded .
Allah be glorified .
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So sad. Some people have taken Rashad Khalifa as their idol.
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I would like to give two simply points which maybe helpful to understand the elimination of last two verses of sura At tawbah
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God preserve Al quran by mathematical code ( code 19 ) to prevent Al quran from any fabrication , distortion or tampering . This code acts like a safety features embedded in currency notes to differentiate the genuine from counterfeit notes .
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Sura At tawbah is a unique sura in Al quran i.e the only one ( out of 114 sura ) without ' basmallah ' on top of the sura . It is believed that basmallah represent as a letterhead for every sura in Al quran .Without this letterhead ( olso known as god's stamped seal ) it's has been assumed that surah At tawbah has been contaminated (contain irregularities ) somewhere within . So code 19 is used to identify the culprits and as a result the last two verses are discarded .
Allah be glorified .
So have you put god's seal on surah tawba now.
Peace -
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Salam diamantinehoneybunch
Sorry to say I'm not a follower of Rashad Khalifa per se but the follower of Quran 3918
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
God be glorified .
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Salam
I wonder whether God preserve the "oral revelations" (message) or "written revelations" (science)? hmm
Example
The sound of "" can be spelled in many ways and which can produce the same sound for """; ie. the spelling of "Alif"" or ""Aleef"" or "AreLeaf"" can produce the same sound of "", and today's Arabic is not the same Arabic during the revelations.
However, the issue is whether "Alif" (or any other spelling for "", hindu spelling, chinese spelling etc) will produce the same "code" for "" in the Submitter's religion?
How can something that sounds the same could mean differently to Allah? (ie. because of human coding)
example
or http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=30
is not the same code with...
Alif-lam-meem
or
Aleef-lam-meem
or
Alif-lump-meem
or
Alif-lammmmmm-meemmmmmm
or
hindu spelling?
or
chinese spelling?
etc..
Allah only speaks and understand Arabic sounds?
Peace all
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Peace muslims,
The same thing with 'Allah'.
The Creator / Supreme Being only understands Arabic and can only be called the Arabic word Allah?So Arab Catholics are wrong when they call The Creator 'Allah' when speaking Arabic?
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Salam
I'm not referring to "translation", but the relation of "mathematical coding" and the "sounds from spelling certain words in other languages". Same sound, but different coding results. " On the other hand, Allah" and "God" produce two different sounds, and leave room for us to decide whether it is referring to the same meaning.
Peace
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Same sound, but different coding results.
Peace all, continue..
Sounds...
And it is He who created the heavens and earth in truth
And the day He says, "Be," (ن <- sounds? Allah does not say "He wrote".
and it is (ُ
His word is the truth <- sounds?
And His is the dominion the Day
the Horn is blown <- sounds?
Knower of the unseen and the witnessed
and He is the Wise, the Acquainted
(673)Can the "Be" (ن stops? cease? dead? Need to say it repeatedly for every each living creatures? laugh
Therefore it is obvious that Code 19 theory is FALSE as a method of preservation of the Qur'an since there are other spellings producing the same sounds, or sounds from other scriptures which are not corroborated with this theory. It must mean something else, more than any human beings can imagine. It is thus better for us to follow what is precise or entirely clear wording from the Qur'an.
Smart and brilliant people can never know reality and Allah. Because they are too smart.
Allah knows best.
Peace
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Does not preservation of Quran imply protection from deleting, corrupting and adding verses, especially when the Quran itself claims to be a Book ? ......
Yes.
Wouldn't this also mean protection from the beginning of its revelation? ......
Well, I would assume that its talking about protecting the entire thing from start to finish. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
Would The Almighty make a deliberate mistake in collecting His Wise Book only for it to be corrected some 1400 years later?
Well, if you start with the assumption that GOD promised to preserve it, you can't then say it was impure for all of humanity for some 1400 years until someone corrected it. I am assuming that GOD does not make false promises here. I can understand that nobody can stop people from making as many versions of the Qur'an as they like. But that is not the same as the Qur'an being universally impure (with the addition of those 2 verses) for about 1400 years. If it was the case that there were 10 version of the Qur'an and one of them was without those 2 verses from start till now, may be it would make sense. But it isn't the case. So GOD made a false promise about preserving it when in reality he meant he would preserve it 1400 year later. P
If so, would this not be a flagrant contradiction? I am referring to those who claim the last two verses of Surat At-Tawbah to be false.
Indeed.
Having said that, the preservation of the Qur'an is merely a claim. It is not anything factual. I couldn't find any means of verifying if the version of Qur'an I use has anything to do with the original document/s. There simply is no way of verifying it. May be if we had some verified original manuscripts, we could match our modern version of the document with it, from start to finish, to determine if it has changed. Due to the lack of such manuscripts, I couldn't find a way to verify the claim that the Qur'an is preserved. What I am pointing out is that the "preservation" is a belief, not a fact. Therefore it makes little sense to argue so much over it.
Peace
----------- Student of Allah -
So have you put god's seal on surah tawba now.
PeaceReferring to this verse Al quran 2730
2730 "It is from Solomon, and it is, `In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.'*
Solomon has a rights to use " Basmallah " (god's seal ) on top of his letter to Sheba cos he is a prophet /messenger of god . So Rashad Khalifa ( if he is the true messenger of the covenant as he claimed ) he also has the authority to do the same (after the sura has been purified ) .
God be glorified .
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Peace Student of Allah.
Nice to see you back, How are you?
May be you have explained/evidenced this quote of yours somewhere else
If it was the case that there were 10 version of the Qur'an and one of them was without those 2 verses from start till now, may be it would make sense. But it isn't the case.
Otherewise this also remains just a claim.
Peace to you brother.
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Shalom Aleikhem,
Peace Student of Allah.
Nice to see you back, How are you?
Good to see you too. I am alright. Thanks for asking. How are you? I hope you are doing great.
May be you have explained/evidenced this quote of yours somewhere else
If it was the case that there were 10 version of the Qur'an and one of them was without those 2 verses from start till now, may be it would make sense. But it isn't the case.
Otherewise this also remains just a claim.
It is not a claim. I don't know what you are talking about. I started the statement with "IF", lol. I didn't say that that is the case. I was talking about a hypothetical scenario which might lend some credibility to the 2 verse removal issue. For example, let me say this "If everyone in this world loved peace, may be we would not have so many wars". That is my opinion where I am entertaining the thought of a world where people are peace loving. I don't see why anyone would read it and say that I am making claims.
Peace
------------ Student of Allah -
Peace Student of Allah.
I am fine ,thank you.
I did start with " explained/evidenced" your quote.
Now you have explained I understand your quote better.
Sorry about the misunderstanding.Peace to you.
