Shahr/month in the light of the quran

marie

Peace all,

If we believe that the month of ramadhan is one of the four restricted month, then the verse 2189 is clear, the new moons are a timing mechanism for the people and not full moon.

Here the occurences of the word alqamara/the moon 677, 96, 754, 124, 132, 1433, 1612, 2133, 2218, 2961, 3129, 3513, 3639.

Allah often speaks about the sun and the moon at the same time. I think the word 'alqamar' represents the full moon which appears in stages until it returns to being like an old curved sheath/date-stalk;it is a logical evolution

Full moon----> 2)manazil (stages)----> 3)crescent like an old curved sheath.

And the moon We have measured it to appear in stages, until it returns to being like an old curved sheath.

Allah knows best

Marie

unknownuser

Peace be upon you all,

Does anyone think the following reminder gives us any further clues?

(251) And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses...

What are these forthy nights?

unknownuser

Salaams all,
if the translation is up to scratch then just see how allah mentions the "FULL MOON"

Waalqamari itha ittasaqa
And the Moon in her fullness

Salaam.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MZ,

Transliteration Waalqamari itha ittasaqa
Y.Ali And the Moon in her fullness
R.Khalifa And the moon and its phases.
Pickthal And by the moon when she is at the full,
Shakir And the moon when it grows full,
Literal And the moon when/if it organized/evened/gathered.

I am not sure what this verse is saying about the moon, but I am leaning further and further towards Aymans understanding.

EVERYTHING in life is cyclical, everything goes by cycles.

It is beginnig to make prefect sense to me that the phases of the moon tell us about debating(hajj) while the full moon suggests time for us to abstain (it seems from sexual contact) during the days.

When we add the full moon of the hot time, I think about the play by Shakespeare which is called 'MIDSUMMER NIGHTS DREAM'. This play is just another teaching about the Summer Solstice, where people would meditate for those days.

Here is a quote I found on a website

""Full Moons that occur close to the summer solstice are special because they follow the lowest path across the sky of all of the year's full Moons." explains Dr. George Lebo, a NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center Summer Faculty Fellow. "Moons seen just above the horizon look much larger than normal. It's an optical illusion, of course, but it's still a pretty sight."

Just brainstorming out loud hoping someone will make sense of all this.

unknownuser

Salams idol,

you said
"Does anyone think the following reminder gives us any further clues?

(251) And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses...

What are these forthy nights?"

We appointed for Moses thirty nights, and completed (the period) with ten (more)...........(e.t.c)
145.

And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said) "Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts soon shall I show you the homes of the wicked,- (How they lie desolate)."

Isn't that when moses prepared the tablets ,i believe making and writing laws -hatched in stone couldn't be easy and requires a lot of time.

Salaams.

marie

Salam MZ, all,

Salaams all,
if the translation is up to scratch then just see how allah mentions the "FULL MOON"

Waalqamari itha ittasaqa
And the Moon in her fullness

Salaam.

Another verses which can bring an additional information

7116 And made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a radiant lamp.

Moon/Full moon through stages becomes ---->2)Crescent-------->3) Full moon invisible------->4) First new moon (hilal, singular form of ahilat 2189)------>1-----2)--------3)-----4) Second new moon.

We know Alhajj is in the months (ashhurun ) which have been appointed (2197) and the new moons are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for Alhajj (2189); we witness the four restricted months while witnessing the new moons. We witness the first restricted month at its beginning and no at its end. There is not any mention of full moon in these verses.

One cyle is between two new moons in the light of 2189

....................Full moon...................... Full moon........................

New moon....................... New moon..................... New moon

.....................Cycle 1.............................Cycle 2.......................

Marie

unknownuser

Salaams marie,
i don't know if you have seen the deity of hindues ,i think shiva, where the moon is inscripted on the forhead of the deity.

I think we are going too far simerlarly with the moon in the quran as it ,to me,doesn't appear in so many ayats as you people are making out.

New moon = AL-HILAAL QAMAR and its not AHAL THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS.
AHAL=family,family member,household,people belonging to a community
or locality.
AHILA = to get accustomed to, to welcome anyone.
AHALA = to marry

The one used in the ayat 2188 is a two eye H ,and therefore that it appears actualy comes from the usual word AHAL(used all over the quran) which has the two eye H

and this signifies a family,and slight changes in the word denotes people
and in the case of our ayat 2188 the word is actualy denoting/talking about the previous ayat (people in the previous ayat 2187)

(Mind you this word is mistranslated in a number of other ayats as well-i think,2173,53,6145 BUT STILL NEEDS CHECKING)

2187

it is talking about property owners ,usurping properties of others by bribing officials/authorities....

2188

Allah says "They ask you about such people"(about the property owners ,who cheat,in the previose ayat,AlAhlate),"Say arrange /or has been arranged a fixed time for them and the Haj.........." (Use lanes and qd)

And to me the Haj is when they will have to swear to uphold the quranic laws,and if they don't the prophet was ordered to saught them out ,obviously for very hienous crimes they would even be killed (sura 9)when found.

Full moons description in the quran.
084.018
YUSUFALI And the Moon in her fullness
PICKTHAL And by the moon when she is at the full,
SHAKIR And the moon when it grows full,

New moons description in the quran.
036.039
YUSUFALI And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.
PICKTHAL And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.
SHAKIR And (as for) the moon, We have ordained for it stages till it becomes again as an old dry palm branch.

Haj hasn't any connection to the moon,sorry but keep researching DON'T IMAGINE.

Salaams.

Grourself

Peace mz357

My research has led me to understand exactly as you say. The translations are corrupt and smack of pagan traditionalism. Just as ?white thread from black thread? has nothing to do with looking to the sky.

shuaib

105 It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.

2189 They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say They are but signs to mark fixed PERIODS OF TIME in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper.

696 He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark) He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time) Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you all,

In my area we have a full moon tommorrow night. I will try to make an effort to stay up and study and REFLECT, as the moon reflects the light of the sun.

I am thinking right now that there must have been a reason that many people began worshipping the sun and moon. Like most tools, people take them too far sometimes, but in our process to remove idols, I don't think we should totally disacrd thier purpose. Shuiab brought forth some verses which are relevant. One of them is disputed by MZ but the other two i don't think I have heard any dispute about.

I ask that if anyone else is getting the full moon soon, to do some observing and see if any information becomes more clear or not, just as a simple experiment.

marie

salam mz

I think we are going too far simerlarly with the moon in the quran as it ,to me,doesn't appear in so many ayats as you people are making out.

New moon = AL-HILAAL QAMAR and its not AHAL THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS.
AHAL=family,family member,household,people belonging to a community
or locality.
AHILA = to get accustomed to, to welcome anyone.
AHALA = to marry

Sorry, you confuse "Ahillat/hilaal 2189" and "Ahaalin(n)/Ahloona/Ahl 2105, 2126, 2196, 2217, 3121, 425"
The two words (ahillat and Ahla) are well explained in the light of the quran.

The one used in the ayat 2188 is a two eye H ,and therefore that it appears actualy comes from the usual word AHAL(used all over the quran) which has the two eye H

There is no "AHL" in 2188, we read the word "alhukkami" which means the judges

No offence intended, you need to revise seriously your courses of arabic language.

Peace
Marie

unknownuser

Salaams marie,
without any type od disrespect ,when a person is in mud he is so used to it he stops noticing it - dear you have to get out of it and look at it from the outside.

One thing i find confusing you here are trying to research but your minds are still closed to anything coming in from the ouitside and you still hold to your paganistic believes -and not just you but quit a few people here.

And no i havn't got it wrong if you have qd see page 36 and i think the AHAL is well explained and if thats not enough its explained even more in the lanes.

Salaams.

Thanks.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you all,

I hope someone else will jump in on this dilemma between MZ and Marie. I need to know if 2189 deals with the phases of the moon or with people.

MZ, regarding the context, for a quite a few verses after that, the "messenger" is being asked several different questions. I do not see it to be contextually wrong to be asking about the phases of the moon. But I am awaiting the solid proof of what this word means.

marie

mz,

Please express your self without calling name and verify your information in the light of the quran before spreading wrong information

Allah says "They ask you about such people"(about the property owners ,who cheat,in the previose ayat,AlAhlate),"Say arrange /or has been arranged a fixed time for them and the Haj.........." (Use lanes and qd)

Peace

unknownuser

Salaams,
i will add some info for anybody who has a lanes and qd could check something enlightening.

page 121 lanes

Inahum laahlo al-ahillati = verily they are sojourners ,or settlers,possessed of property.

so al-ahillati=sojourners ,settlers,property owners.
mawakeeto=time appointed for the performance.
Hee=though may prepare/arrange/he/it.

Now look at what the ayat 188 is talking about

And you see shooting the moondown,in ayat 189 and using the said translation makes it clear Allah is talking about the people ,possessers of property who are bribing the judges in the ayat 188
188.
And do not eat up your property among yourselves for vanities, nor use it as bait for the judges, with intent that ye may eat up wrongfully and knowingly a little of (other) people's property.
189.
Yas-aloonaka AAani al-ahillati qul hiya mawaqeetulilnnasi waalhajji walaysa albirrubi-an ta/too albuyoota min thuhooriha walakinnaalbirra mani ittaqa wa/too albuyoota min abwabihawaittaqoo Allaha laAAallakum tuflihoona
They ask thee concerning such people. Say It has been arranged/appointed for the people with the Haj,But it is no virtue that you enter the houses from their backs but It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper.

May Allah guide/you /me and everybody to his dominion.

Salaams idolfree ,all.

marie

They ask thee concerning such people. Say It has been arranged/appointed for the people with the Haj,But it is no virtue that you enter the houses from their backs but It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper.

"Wa Alhajj" is translated as "as well as for alhajj" or "and for Alhajj", with is a wrong translation for the letter "Wa"

You translate mawaqeet by "arrange, appoint", where is the notion of time (alwaqt) in your translation of the word "mawaaqeet?