Where did "wudu" come from??
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everything that resembles our lower/animistic/satanic nature (specially menstruation and drunkenness) needs some kind of purification!
I fail to understand your statement how a biological process that God had designed resembles lower/satanic nature. A woman doesn't choose to have menses. I am pretty sure women and guys also for that matter would prefer if we didn't. Menstruation is a biological process designed by God.
Your opinion that menstruation is unclean and needs to be purified is based on what? As a woman, I don't "choose" to be "unclean" by having periods. the only way I can stop this resemblance of unclean lower/satanic/animalistic nature as you state is to have my uterus surgically removed or wait for menopause.
Menses is a natural biological process as is urination and defecation. Having menses once a month doesn't make me unclean. What would make me unclean is having poor personal hygiene especially when i am on my menses.
And about the menstruation it says
They ask you about menstruation say, "It is harmful; you shall avoid sexual intercourse with the women during menstruation; do not approach them until they are rid of it. Once they are rid of it, you may have intercourse with them in the manner designed by GOD. GOD loves the repenters, and He loves those who are clean."So , it clearly says that it is unclean.
Really? Can you tell me where God clearly says menses is unclean? When people asked the prophet about menstruation, did God say it is unclean? I suggest that you read the very verse that you have quoted.
Asad translates it as "vulnerable condition"
Ahmed Ali "period of stress"
Picktall "illness"All that God is saying in this verse is that menses is a period of stress. God is talking to men in this verse and the subsequent ones asking that men refrain from having sexual intercourse while a woman is in this state. In the next sentence, God goes on to talk about how He loves those who repent and those who are clean.
So from this verse, I don't know how you came to your conclusion. So what you are saying is that menses is unclean. God clearly states that He loves those who are clean. If menses is unclean and God likes those who are clean, then per what you said God doesn't like women who are unclean with their menses.
Let's see here God created woman. Designed her to have menses every month and along with it there are medical conditions where a woman can have menses for weeks or even months. God considers menses unclean. God likes those who are clean. God is the one who did this to a woman giving her menses and doesn't love her for what He did. Do you not see the fallacy in your statements?
The verse is pretty clear enough where when the prophet was asked about menstruation, God said tell them that this is a "period of stress" or "vulnerable condition" and asking men not to have sexual intercourse while a woman is on her periods. Ok what if couple couldn't control themselves and had sex or if the guy bothered the woman while she was under this period of stress, well God loves those who seek repentance.
The last part of the ayat about God loves those who are "clean". Considering that God is addressing men in this verse and the next verse, and how right before this statement God talks about how he loves those who repent, could it be that having sex with a woman on her menses may be an "unclean" act and God loves those who are clean in their thoughts and actions?
O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying. Nor after sexual orgasm without bathing, unless you are on the road, traveling; if you are ill or traveling, or you had urinary or fecal-related excretion (such as gas), or contacted the women (sexually), and you cannot find water, you shall observe Tayammum (dry ablution) by touching clean dry soil, then wiping your faces and hands therewith. GOD is Pardoner, Forgiver.
It says "O you who believe" which is addressed to both men and women, so your question what about women after sex, or how a menstruating woman should pray, is answered there.
Where? Can you tell me where in this verse that you quoted God mentions how a menstruating woman should pray? I don't see any mention of menstruating woman in this verse.
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I think as physical movements of the Salat=Contact prayer (which is different from just mentally praying-like dua or davening) are necessary to put us in the right state in front of Allah, so the wudu is a symbolic action of approaching the "inner temple". It all functions as means to differentiate the normal awakening state from the more elevated, spiritual one.
You are entitled to your thinking. Koran doesn't define salat=contact prayer as you state. If it does then provide me with your evidence. Wudhu is not mentioned by God in the Koran. So the wudhu is coined by men and the symbolism with the "inner temple" that you mention is your personally feelings. This physical movement of worship may be necessary in your life to put you in the state of mind that you need but that holds true only to you and to others who think and feel the same as you. This physical ritual may function as a means to differentiate your awakening state from the elevated spiritual one and to others like you. What works for you and what you need may not hold for others.
I have no issues with your needs and what works for you but we need to make a distinction between your personal feelings and thoughts and what God says. God doesn't mention wudhu in the Koran. God didn't say salat is this physical ritual to be done a particular way. This is my point.
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w/salaam,
So in sum keep yourself clean and fresh whenever you can.
Personally, I'd modify that to So in sum keep yourself clean and fresh whenever relevant/appropriate.
And another question I have is am I supposed to use water every time I use the toilet? Or just after defecating? What's the arabic root for that word?
The literal translation
- Aw = Or
- Ja'a = Come (past tense)
- Ahadun = One
- Minkum = Of You
- Min = From/Of
*Al = the
*Ghaiti = toilet (hole in the ground)
I would assume that these circumstances would be obvious for cleaning, but then so is when you're ill and after sex.
No it is not obvious, especially "illness". It is perhaps only obvious now.
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Salaam
Amazing post and still waiting conlusion..
Im opinion of justamuslim..Quran translations are terrible, and reduced the Quran to a bunch of rituals like imolating, fasting,pilgrimage with circuit around cube.. etc etc.. problem starts in surat Albaqara if one want too see ritual salat in first verses..all Quran will become a ritualistic guide. but instead if one see Salawat as divine laws/quran study/ponder in signs of Allah wich is the creation the Major sign things become easier..and brighter,
this issue of wuduu and cleaning to soil alweyes made me think..maybe because i took 10 years reading quran withouth mexing in masjids and also not with many muslims, things like hadith and bible are too hard to digest..too irracional like many of translations..
probably you already now this site but i let youhttp//www.aastana.com/URDU/default.asp roll the page down and you have 4books, all are good , but for this casa check truth about salat.
maybe not 100% correct but unleast more logical and beneficial for mankind.. instead of ritualsSAlaam keep going) peace
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Thanks Nomad,
The guy's taken words out of my mouth.
Stunning research.......
http//www.aastana.com/URDU/default.asp
Well said Dr Zamman.
There ought be a link to this website on the main page of Free-Minds.Org
I think. hmm
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Thanks Nomad,
The guy's taken words out of my mouth.
Stunning research.......
http//www.aastana.com/URDU/default.asp
Well said Dr Zamman.
There ought be a link to this website on the main page of Free-Minds.Org
I think. hmm
Stunning research in the sense it's so bad it's surprising someone wrote it?
http//www.scribd.com/doc/65842903/Critique-of-Dr-Qamar-Zaman-of-aastana-wudhu-ablution-verses -
Stunning research in the sense it's so bad it's surprising someone wrote it?
http//www.scribd.com/doc/65842903/Critique-of-Dr-Qamar-Zaman-of-aastana-wudhu-ablution-versesSorry waqas who ever wrote this against Dr Zammans research hasn't realy understand the points Dr Zamman was making - and you didn't check the counter argument did you? hypno
Lets have a look at the first point only to rubbish the whole counter product.
P69
?
3
rd
point - states
?
from the Root QWL and is used for routi
ne talking.??
whilst
I may agree, he seemingly neglects that in many places in AQ it says ?qul/say (rootQWL)...........insert statement here? which is part of AQ itself, thus if one were to saythese ?qul statements? in their ?namaz? (as he calls it) then they would be saying statements that are classified under ?qul? but in their ?namaz?
.
?Kindly note that routine talk is not allowed during Namaaz.?since he calls salat ?namaaz? here, it is hard to differentiate whether his statements are only applicable to what is commonly known as ?namaaz? or ?salat? also. I assume it only refers to?namaaz?. For example IF only applicable to ?namaaz? here then yes, there is no routine talk in?namaaz? as far as I know
(afaik). However, if he is implying routine talk is not allowed during salat,as per AQ, then he should provide Quran references etcAll Dr Zamman was saying (mind i don't have any contact to the man) - according to his explanation (and i bet you will agree) , is that saying "qul" in namaz when reciting the ayah's as part of the namaz doesn'at make sense - who would you be saying "qul-Say" to when reading the quranic ayah's as part of the namaz? so he was just rediculling the concept of reciting the ayah's with the "qul" in namaz.
The persons going against Dr zamman seemingly doesn't seem to realise what Dr Zamman is implying - rediculous.
So the counter argument doesn't hold much weight at all.
peace
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Sorry waqas who ever wrote this against Dr Zammans research hasn't realy understand the points Dr Zamman was making - and you didn't check the counter argument did you? hypno
Lets have a look at the first point only to rubbish the whole counter product.
All Dr Zamman was saying (mind i don't have any contact to the man) - according to his explanation (and i bet you will agree) , is that saying "qul" in namaz when reciting the ayah's as part of the namaz doesn'at make sense - who would you be saying "qul-Say" to when reading the quranic ayah's as part of the namaz? so he was just rediculling the concept of reciting the ayah's with the "qul" in namaz.
The persons going against Dr zamman seemingly doesn't seem to realise what Dr Zamman is implying - rediculous.
So the counter argument doesn't hold much weight at all.
peace
I wrote the critique.
Firstly, what you said is different to what QZ said, or rather, the reasoning/evidence QZ gives. If he meant what you said, then we should both agree that his conveying of this is rather poor. Granted, I believe the English is a translation of what he wrote, but still, poorly worded nonetheless.
And lastly, I find this statement of yours very telling "Lets have a look at the first point only to rubbish the whole counter product."
Your statement is illogical. Even if we assume the first point was a non-point, for sake of argument, that in no way renders the rest "rubbish".
I have noticed something about those who consider QZ's views credible, and that is they frequently make illogical arguments/statements.
Feel free to refute the rest of that critique ;D
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Well the second point in the counter argument;
"P70?5
Th point?claims ?came one of you from...? (i.e. from singular to plural) is a significant point but seemingly fails to consider that it may have been phrased this way to emphasise that going to the toilet (assuming we translate ?al ghaiti? as ?the toilet?) is a personal/individual/private act, not aplural activity (which may well have been relatively common in those days) etc.States
?
?
Therefore, to emphatically say that, if one of you may return from lavatory, then you all may perform tayammam, definitely requires deliberation. At this point, certainly due to an act by one of the community members, the whole community is obliged to undertake some corrective
measure.?but conveniently neglects to mention that immediately after the singular ?al ghaiti? reference it
becomes plural, e.g. ?or you (plural) have touched the women? or ?and you (plural) could not find water?.It is a fact according to how i understand the ayah (do you understand it any different?) the ayah is talking to people in general and then simply says if one does such a thing then you must (all) do tayamum.
So the argument no way tarnsishes waht Dr Zamman has said.
The rest of the counter argument can be no different.............it is some one who does believe in namaz ( i think) and just trying to save the day with baseless arguments.
I think i will see Dr Zamman on my visit to Pakistan if i can - Great work he has done.
peace
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Peace all,
here is a well know book about the Origine of rituals in Islam by Gerald Hawting
for wudhu please check chapter 5
http//books.google.co.uk/books?id=oCvf76uT3wMC&pg=PA3&dq=eugen+mittwoch%2Brite+musulman&source=gbs_toc_s&cad=1&sig=scEmeMyvQJo0cOgUAPQcA42js30#v=onepage&q&f=falsepeace
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SAlaam to all
Thanks for link, jewish manipulations and old pagan myts of arabia (including hindu heritage like caaba sanscript writings that they dont show almost no one, the hair cutting as sacrament, and stone worshiping and circumbulating) and persia is the foundation of hadith full of herry potter and lord of rings magic,rituals and ego salvation.
i just wonder how meka and medina never get nothing in cience or knowledge compered to bagad or alandalus for exemple. yes i know.. they reduced ILM into colections of hadith and rituals, instead of getting knowledge from Quran and the Creation of The Creator and fully apply it.
anyway keep on searching and keep saying.how can we reduce Qurn rules almost to 1 surat full of rituals? strange.. doont make much sense to have holy monuments and holy rituals and holy holywood, holy prophet,holy month,holy food, its to saparete what Creator intended to be united..
So as jews and cristian alweyes said they were the favorites, now the Mohamedians do the same, everyone just forget that we follow the craddle of Ibrahim, hanif, never associate partnership with the One , be kind gentel and focus on objectives and actions with sincerety to full apply divine laws/comandments.. and not rituals, because 5 salat a day and rituals are not making muslim world better..peace handshake
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In the name of God, the most Gracious, the most Merciful
Peace NOMAD,
I agree, we must follow the monotheism religion which started with Abraham.
Believe in God alone and His system, the Hereafter and be good people.
Refrain from idol worship and serve Him alone. Many things can be idol worship, including your own ego.
What is being good people? Well the Quran certainly comes with good examples, but even without it we must just use our brains.
Unselfish, charitable, humble, patient, steadfast, those are among the traits making a righteous person.
To wash yourself and take off your shoes before contacting the most High, is not that more than right and a show of respect.
Postures of prayer everybody knows, even knowledgeable Christians and Jews. The people mentioned in the Bible prostrated, you can verify it yourselves.
Prostrating, like most of us Muslims do, may feel like the Stone age, but are we too proud to humiliate ourselves in front of the Creator?
May God guide us
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but are we too proud to humiliate ourselves in front of the Creator?
So when we bow, is He realy there in front of us? And i thought he was to the right and left , above and below, in front and back of us - and in our hearts also. How do you people stand facing him?
I think we all face Him when we do right , but turn away when we do wrong.........
peace
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In the name of God, most Gracious, most Merciful
Peace,
God is of course present everywhere, but to avoid confusion the congregation was told to face in a certain direction.
Of course God hears you even if you face in a completely different direction, but you would not follow the guide.
If you believe in the infallibility of the Quran, then you know contact prayers are performed by physical prostration.
Remember all you do is part of a big test, all religious practices, your life, moral character and absolutely everything. This life is just a temporary illusion, no reason to get an excessive love for its vanities. Better just be good, and receive your true reward later.
I usually see this world as an unusually real video game, a simulation, way more realistic than the best games available. God set the game world and its rules at creation, and that is why this world feels like it has limitations as God created limitations. God created death and any other feature of the game.
This gives a feeling of the Matrix, does it not?
May God convince you
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SAlaam
thanks 357 good and simple definition. i totaly agree
ok lets see if i spend the same time you spend prostrated fedding the poor or helping neeedy, wich action is more benfical for humanity? my prostration who only will feed my ego and think that im speacil or to use the same time to do good deeds? whats the good in a prostration(physical) am i not awere of Creator if i dont postrate? ..to where this prostration? meka? east?west? ive see milions prostrating ..but no kindness no respect no tolerance.. sujud and ruku are other stuff than physical bow and prostration.. prayer doesnt prevent haram as many say..but discipline training and meditation yes.SAlaam/peace/paz
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In the name of God, the most Gracious, the most Merciful
Peace,
Only observing the prayers is not enough for salvation, it is easy to understand through reading the Quran. Praying does not make you a good person on its own, especially not if you do like millions of Muslims in the world do, mention Muhammad or any other name while you pray.
The Quran says very clearly that charity and other righteous deeds are a must to be admitted into God's paradise.
Stop abrogate the words of God in your distaste of traditional Islam. Everything the traditional Muslims do is not wrong, it would be arrogant to say so.
Wudhu is clearly described in the Quran (56) to be performed before approaching the prayers.
If you say we are not supposed to prostrate physically, I can be so frank as to say you do not believe the Quran. And then I did not intend to offend you. The Quran explicitly talks about praying in the thousands of year old prostration ritual.
May God offer you guidance lest you go astray
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Salaam
PEace bro peace
where word whudu in quran? ok..no water clean to soil? makes sense to you? if you go to force of nature and no water? you think if pass sand in you you get cleaner??? try it yourself..pleaseand traditional islam is not all wrong.. but majority yes..
now that one that if i dont postrate in ground i dont bealive in Quran thats amazing -X .. do you know the ayat when Musa enter city prostrated? do you think he entered the city with head on the ground? amazing.. -X
No ment to be ofensive anyway and realy apreciate youre post..SAlaam peace
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Peace,
No offense taken.
Just in case of Moses it was in a submissive respect-showing way he entered, not literally head on the ground.
As for dry ablution, I have never tried it so I am not sure. There has to be a meaning for the statement anyhow, otherwise the scripture is not infallible.
Wudhu is the washing before prayers, stated in 56. Its steps are clearly explained.
Read about praying in case of war, it cannot be just some "mind prostrations". Be reasonable please.
Do you want to make fun of millions and millions of submitters who have been prostrating for thousands of years?
Have you ever read the Quran from cover to cover and meditated upon it?
Be careful so you do not walk astray. Listen, I say this because I care, not out of arrogance.
God bless you
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SAlaam
ok by youre translation Quran say if no water you just need to purify arms and face in a stone/sand watever..and why not the feet?
..maybe i read Quran from cover to cover more times than you but anyaway thats no the point..many recite allQuran and still dont even know what they are parroting..thats why i dont fall the traps youre falling.. can you please explain this sujud acording to Quran?position? jewish prostration is full body in horizontal..teel me where you can find head on ground in AlQuran?? and please put word whuduu for me in atabic to read please . NOW ok sheck same verse of war and youll find contradiction they Salat with kafir and then let go? or let go if they aqimo sallawat and atuu zakat---get in acordance(sujud) to divine laws and to sustain it? thats more logical to be a pact and contract for peace than to make pray only and let go, ..To short SAlat while traveling is that if you find yourself in hard situation to implent Allah divine laws on its full content the same way you can aplly while in your confort zone and rutine... ..anyway milions in world say jesus is Isa and i dont bealive and other milion say he died in a cross and was son of God and i dont bealive. do you bealive?but in shaa Allah soon ill bring you the verses for you..
Thanks for reply..i was imagine Musa enter the city with head in ground with no ofense ,
Barak Allahu feek
As-Salamu Aleykum -
Peace,
Trust me, I do not read the Quran just for reading and acting like a parrot. I can sit or lie down for hours thinking about what I have read. Please you insult me.
Physical prostration is advocated by the Quran, we just have to face it. It is OK if you prostrate like a Jew, as long as you do it. Just remember the postures standing, bowing and prostrating. Read sura 1 in English, it is just fine or glorify him with you own written poem. Give God compliments. Remember Him all day long.
I think you confuse me with the mainstream Muslims in the world.
Remember the majority of those who believe do not do so without committing idol worship and most people are destined for Hell.
May God forgive our sins
God bless you
