Terribly Confused !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Peace to all Bro and Sis,
Imagine a man, who never in his life has bowed in front of an Idol, never followed any damn superstitions or traditions by the ay never giving a thought on the fact whether God exists or not, sometimes he thinks and comes to conclusion supporting atheists. But ... but the whole world has not seen a philanthropist, social activist, and crystal clear minded man devoted only to do Good Deeds and the whole life he does good Deeds only to support morality and to follow "Do good deeds whatever happens".......what will be its judgement on the Day.......................... I am f***ingly terribly confused......and of course
May Lord Help us All.... pr pr pr
Peace
Harun ) ) ) -
there is NO right or wrong for such guy....ultimate decisions remains in hands of ALLAH our LORD.
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Peace AliHuzaifa
I don't want to state it but...Shirk is an Unforgivable Sin and this guy Has commited it.....
Peace
Harunshirk, how?
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well this guy doesn't believe in God....that's how
Peace
Harunhe dont believe in GOD, but he havent associated any partner with GOD, so how is that shirk?
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Peace AliHuzaifa
he dont believe in GOD, but he havent associated any partner with GOD, so how is that shirk?
Which means that a man who doesn't believe in God is not commiting Shirk....I don't if I am wrong or you...but something terrible is wrong with Our understanding of Shirk.....that guy says....."What the Heck....there is NO God" but doesn't add the next part "but God".......if he says this how can he not be a mushrik.....
The whole Pascal's Wager is based on an atheist being a Mushrik....
Peace
Harun -
kalema tauhid can be recite in many ways...and I am sure if he does GOOD all his life, he understands there is a creator of this universe and we all need to return to him.....this is why I said last decision remains in the hands of ALLAH our LORD.
ALLAH dont leave or reject people of GOOD intention and GOOD deeds....
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Peace AliHuzaifa
I don't want to state it but...Shirk is an Unforgivable Sin and this guy Has commited it.....
Peace
Harun ) ) )Ah, only to die in the state of shirk without change. Those who change for the better before their deathbed are not wasted, ISA.
It seems that ALLAH tends to Guide good people especially to the Deen. Who can say for sure what another person privately believes, and what will come to them later in life? hmm
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Peace Abdul Hadi peace
Thanks for your useful comments, thus Allah would surely show His signs bravo to that guy n order to give him a chance to attain salvation....btw what is your definition of salvation ???
Peace
HarunThanks! sun
My take is that salvation is the promise of good and the end of harm--a move into better circumstances.
4041 "And, O my people, why is it that I invite you to salvation, while you invite me to the Fire!"
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Peace.
If a person can be thrown into hellfire for not believing in God, regardless of the good that he's done for others; and another person can be invited into heaven for believing in God, despite doing all types of wrongdoing and 'repenting' - then that should give these "believers" an indication of the kind of deity that they revere... If Allah merely wants more people to believe in him, and he's willing to reward those who do, then why doesn't he provide proof for his existence?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad.
Look at this Big contradiction!
This is what you said in your post-If Allah merely wants more people to believe in him, and he's willing to reward those who do, then why doesn't he provide proof for his existence?
And this is your signatureThis is because when God alone was advocated, you disbelieved; but when partners were mentioned beside Him, you believed. So, the judgement is to God, the most high, the great. (Al-Qur?aan 4012)
It does not make sense?
Peace.
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Peace, good logic.
Look at this Big contradiction!
This is what you said in your post-If Allah merely wants more people to believe in him, and he's willing to reward those who do, then why doesn't he provide proof for his existence?
And this is your signatureThis is because when God alone was advocated, you disbelieved; but when partners were mentioned beside Him, you believed. So, the judgement is to God, the most high, the great. (Al-Qur?aan 4012)
It does not make sense?
Firstly, how is that contradictory? And secondly, what does that have to do with the posted question?
My signature is a passage from the Qur'aan that I perceived as being very critical to Islamic orthodoxy. I found it interesting, especially when examining it alongside the commonly accepted Islamic beliefs and practices of today. However, that passage doesn't say anything about proof for God's existence, nor does it provide anything that verifies the theistic position concerning him. If anything, it nullifies it!
How?
Read the passage in my "signature block". That Qur'aanic verse doesn't imply that Allah is the only god - it actually implies that Allah is the highest god (e.g. 'the most high' and due to his position of being 'the great(est)', other gods shouldn't be mentioned alongside him to authenticate his position. What's coincidental about this is, in reality, this is the same theological position relayed in ancient Judaism; it was a henotheistic religion, not a monotheistic one. Therefore, the Qur'aan is at least partially justified in claiming to "confirm" (agree with) the ancient law-book known as the Torah (or Tawrah/Tavrah). The two books actually mesh quite nicely together, if you really consider the philosophical implications related to this.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad.
If " Judgement is to God" Like what you say in your signature, this implies that all the " other gods" are irrelevant. Therefore you contradict yourself by saying
that passage doesn't say anything about proof for God's existence, nor does it provide anything that verifies the theistic position concerning him. If anything, it nullifies it!
Or you do not mean what you say?
Peace.
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Peace, good logic.
If " Judgement is to God" Like what you say in your signature, this implies that all the " other gods" are irrelevant. Therefore you contradict yourself by saying
that passage doesn't say anything about proof for God's existence, nor does it provide anything that verifies the theistic position concerning him. If anything, it nullifies it!
Or you do not mean what you say?
You're presenting a straw-man argument. The basis of this discussion doesn't have anything to do with my signature - it's based on the post I made...
If a person can be thrown into hellfire for not believing in God, regardless of the good that he's done for others; and another person can be invited into heaven for believing in God, despite doing all types of wrongdoing and 'repenting' - then that should give these "believers" an indication of the kind of deity that they revere... If Allah merely wants more people to believe in him, and he's willing to reward those who do, then why doesn't he provide proof for his existence?
Now, if your issue is with the signature, I'll once again explain it. It makes the assertion that "judgment is to God". Again, I'm not making that assertion; the Qur'aan is. And again, I didn't say anything about the other gods being irrelevant or insignificant. I merely said that, according to the Qur'aan, they shouldn't be mentioned beside God in order to authenticate his position. In other words, if my greatness is absolute (at least from my perspective), I shouldn't have to compare my position to the position of someone else, since my greatness ultimately speaks for itself.
And, as I mentioned, that position (1) doesn't authenticate God's existence and (2) doesn't promote the concept of absolute monotheism, just as it didn't in the ancient Judaic religion. If anything, it promotes a concept of henotheism, which is the worship of the highest god, at least from their (e.g. Jewish/Islamic) perspective. The Jews worshipped a national god, not a universal one. The Muslims promote a similar ideology, which is why the following concepts must be upheld in the worship of Allah, based on Islamic orthodoxy
- The shahaada (testimony) must be given in the Arabic language, as if God only understands this language.
- The salaat (connection/prayer) must be recited in Arabic, advocating a national or cultural religion.
- The zakaat (tax?) must be paid according to an Arabized system of Islamic institution, not a global one.
- The siyyaam (abstanation) must be taken during the Arabic month of ramadhaan, based on an Arabized calendar.
- The hajj (feast/pilgrimage) is established in the national country of Arabia.
In other words, Islam has been converted into a national religion, with a national god - not a universal one. And, from a henotheistic standpoint, he can be seen as being greater than the gods of other (non-Arabic) nations; he's not necessarily the only god in the universe, and he may not even be the only god under his regional jurisdiction. He's simply the highest (greatest) one.
Do you disagree?
Peace,
Ahmad
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Peace Ahmad.
I disagree with your 5 points.
That is not what " Islam" in Qoran means or requires. That is man made laws.
Islam to me is not a religion. It is a state of mind"Submission" to the creator.
Peace.
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Peace.
If a person can be thrown into hellfire for not believing in God, regardless of the good that he's done for others; and another person can be invited into heaven for believing in God, despite doing all types of wrongdoing and 'repenting' - then that should give these "believers" an indication of the kind of deity that they revere... If Allah merely wants more people to believe in him, and he's willing to reward those who do, then why doesn't he provide proof for his existence?
Peace,
Ahmad
Yes, such a deity doesn't make much sense. That which is called God, is not unfair. An unfair God doesn't make sense. It's a stupid idea altogether. Of course one wouldn't believe in an unfair God. Religions have made all sorts of ridiculous images of God. But religions don't have monopoly on God, and just because those images are illogical doesn't mean there is no God.
And we should also not take for granted that man knows exactly what is fair and what is unfair... just because man has his like and dislikes. What is unpleasant is not necessarily bad, and what is pleasant is not necessarily good. Man is never far from arrogance and over-confidence.... i.e. ignorance...Peace and cheers!
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Dear Ahmad Bilal
What sort of proof from God would satisfy you about his existence?
JavedThis is exactly the right question! But it doesn't have to be a proof from God, it could be a proof in general... but the question is what type of proof people would like to have.