Are Quran-aloners being arrogant?
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Peace soloman.
Quran is all we need for salvation
The words of the Quran speak in 1964, saying,
We do not come down except by the command of your Lord. To Him belongs our past, our future, and everything between them. Your Lord is never forgetful.
God did not forget, for example, to tell us how to sleep (18109, 3127). Yet, the fabricators of such false doctrine as Hadith & Sunna have come up with religious teachings dictating to their followers how to sleep, and even how to cut your nails and so on...
Claiming we need another source for salvation is a direct contradiction to what God says.
The Quran proclaims that it is complete, perfect, and fully detailed (619, 38, 114, 115; 5045), and that religious regulations not specifically instituted in the Quran constitute a religion other than Islam, (4221, 1746).
The true believers uphold the Quran, the whole Quran, and nothing but the Quran. This principle is confirmed by the Quran. .
Upholding anything else is idol worship.
Peace.
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Peace soloman.
Quran is all we need for salvation
The words of the Quran speak in 1964, saying,
We do not come down except by the command of your Lord. To Him belongs our past, our future, and everything between them. Your Lord is never forgetful.
God did not forget, for example, to tell us how to sleep (18109, 3127). Yet, the fabricators of such false doctrine as Hadith & Sunna have come up with religious teachings dictating to their followers how to sleep, and even how to cut your nails and so on...
Claiming we need another source for salvation is a direct contradiction to what God says.
The Quran proclaims that it is complete, perfect, and fully detailed (619, 38, 114, 115; 5045), and that religious regulations not specifically instituted in the Quran constitute a religion other than Islam, (4221, 1746).
The true believers uphold the Quran, the whole Quran, and nothing but the Quran. This principle is confirmed by the Quran. .
Upholding anything else is idol worship.
Peace.
I wonder, good logic, were all the early muslims idol worshippers? In those days, in the entire Umayyad caliphate, you'd have not more than 5 or 6 copies of the Quran. Islamic practices were carried out by following words of mouth (AKA hadiths).
So, were all the early muslims idol worshippers?
I think your excerpt was copied from rashad Khalifa. This is what I think IMHO is arrogance.
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Peace,
The Quran is not conjecture, it is an infallible revelation from God, no guesswork or wishful thinking.
Separate man-made hadith from the Quran please. Hadith is alleged observations, not revelation.
May God show us the light.
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Peace solomon.
5 or 6 copies? Are these assumptions?
Do you not believe God when He says His book is fully detailed?
What about before that? When Qoran was still being inspired to the prophet?
The fact remains you have Qoran now, and either you believe God, or you do not?
That is the choice we have.
Peace.
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Peace,
The Quran is not conjecture, it is an infallible revelation from God, no guesswork or wishful thinking.
Separate man-made hadith from the Quran please. Hadith is alleged observations, not revelation.
May God show us the light.
Nope, even the Quran is a conjecture. No use denying reality.
If you notice, not even the Quran is the saying of the Prophet. When you are reading the Quran, one verse is "compiled by Uthman, collected by Ziad, collected from Umm Kaab's writing in a tree leaf, heard the Prophet saying .......". Skip to another verse and it is "compiled by Uthman, collected by A who collected from B, who heard the Prophet saying.........".
What you have today is the Quran according to Uthman. Each verse had a distinct chain of transmission that traced back to the Prophet (much like hadiths, only a shorter time period).
There were qurans according to Ali, Ayesha, Ubayy Kaab, Ibn Masud. All those qurans were burnt to avoid dissident. And you're saying Quran isn't conjecture? Get real.
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Nope, even the Quran is a conjecture. No use denying reality.
What you have today is the Quran according to Uthman. Each verse had a distinct chain of transmission that traced back to the Prophet (much like hadiths, only a shorter time period).
There were qurans according to Ali, Ayesha, Ubayy Kaab, Ibn Masud. All those qurans were burnt to avoid dissident. And you're saying Quran isn't conjecture? Get real.
Can you back up your claims with evidence?
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Nothing wrong in reading and following the best of ......... Bukhari, Muslim, Plato, Homer, Hesiod, Aristotle, Patience Strong or your uncle Jack, just don't take it as 'part of religion or Islam'
Concerning stoning in OT, or Torah, yes for certain things, one of which was 'abrogated' or changed to lashing in Quran.
Follow the religion of Abraham...........who was before Moses and any of the books we know of.
peace
I agree we should follow the religion of Abraham, monotheism. Rest are non essentials.
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@soloman
You started out saying that hadiths are the sayings of the prophet then you admitted that hadiths are not the narrations of the prophet. Now you are saying that the Quran is also conjecture just like hadiths.
So let's get this straight. You are a Quran alone Muslim who believes that Quran and hadiths are all conjectures.
I think you have made yourself clear to me.
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Peace,
Then I understand you standing, and I do not share it.
In my world the Quran remained intact through the years and a verse even says the scripture is infallible.
I hope you know what you are doing.
Do you mean Quran alone people are arrogant?
May God forgive us.
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Peace solomon.
5 or 6 copies? Is this an assumption?
What about the time when Qoran was still being sent through the prophet?
The fact remains we have Qoran today. Do you believe God when He says His book is fully detailed?
Peace.
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I didn't mean to use the term "quran aloner" in a literal sense. Many Quran alone scholars such as Kassim (from Malaysia), Joseph Islam advocates the following of hadiths which do not contradict the Quran.
Each one of us follow everything according to our own understanding. You understand and follow the Quran according to your understanding too. So, I don't see any problem with subjectivity.
Quoting names of others who follow the same practice as you is not a validation of the practice. And yes I do follow the Quran according to my understanding BUT I DO NOT partake in the ahaadith outside of The Quran.
Quick question for you...
If the ahaadith that Bukhari and Co. collected were Orally passed down from generation to generation (as you had put it) WHY did Bukhari have to travel FAR and WIDE to TRACK DOWN those very few handful of people to hear hadith from? If they were widespread oral traditions passed from generation to generation, Bukhair should have been able to approach anyone and get his ahaadith from them. But by his own admittance he did not do this. So WHAT were the people following and upholding BEFORE Bukhari and Co. concocted these phony ahaadith???
Something I am recommending that everyone here read if/when they can The TRUTH About Hadith
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I used to be the typical naive Muslim who hates israel and supports the Palestinians. Then was persuaded to do more research about the matter by a Zionist. After my research of history and present, I realized the crap that I've been fed all along.
Now I'm a Zionist and firmly support Israel in the conflict and consider Israel to be the only shining beacon of the middle east.
Let's all be sure of who you are. A Zionist.
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@soloman
You started out saying that hadiths are the sayings of the prophet then you admitted that hadiths are not the narrations of the prophet. Now you are saying that the Quran is also conjecture just like hadiths.
So let's get this straight. You are a Quran alone Muslim who believes that Quran and hadiths are all conjectures.
I think you have made yourself clear to me.
I'm simply exposing the fallacy of those advocating complete rejection of hadith. If you reject hadith, you have to do the same with quran
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Peace,
Then I understand you standing, and I do not share it.
In my world the Quran remained intact through the years and a verse even says the scripture is infallible.
I hope you know what you are doing.
Do you mean Quran alone people are arrogant?
May God forgive us.
What if that verse was inserted later on?
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Peace solomon.
5 or 6 copies? Is this an assumption?
What about the time when Qoran was still being sent through the prophet?
The fact remains we have Qoran today. Do you believe God when He says His book is fully detailed?
Peace.
No, this is not an assumption. This is the opinion of historians and archaeologists. This is due to the fact that most people were illiterate and papyrus was expensive.
So, by your Rashadist logic from your previous post, all early muslims were idol worshippers. Explain this first then I'll answer if quan is fully detailed or not.
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Quoting names of others who follow the same practice as you is not a validation of the practice. And yes I do follow the Quran according to my understanding BUT I DO NOT partake in the ahaadith outside of The Quran.
While it may not be a validation, it does disprove your literal understanding of the term "quran aloner". Even quran aloners can be hadith-accepting.
If the ahaadith that Bukhari and Co. collected were Orally passed down from generation to generation (as you had put it) WHY did Bukhari have to travel FAR and WIDE to TRACK DOWN those very few handful of people to hear hadith from? If they were widespread oral traditions passed from generation to generation, Bukhair should have been able to approach anyone and get his ahaadith from them. But by his own admittance he did not do this. So WHAT were the people following and upholding BEFORE Bukhari and Co. concocted these phony ahaadith???
People were obviously following ORAL traditions before the hadith. Again, as I said previously, Bukhari's role was NO MORE than DOCUMENTATION of these oral traditions. If Bukhari didn't do it, somebody else would inevitably later on.
He had to travel far and wide to ensure only trustworthy individuals are selected for Hadiths.
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Peace,
Like I said, in my world the scripture is intact like it was when the prophet wrote it, so no verses were inserted later on. The Quran is the precise words of God, compared to Hadith which is man-made conjecture.
This is my what I believe and I will let you believe what you believe, there is no compulsion in religion. I am not responsible for you and you are not responsible for me.
Still is this arrogance?
Is it arrogance to claim that the Quran is complete and fully detailed, while the Hadith is unreliable man-made conjecture? Quran is revelation, Hadith is not.
We have different opinion about it, but does it make me arrogant?
May God have mercy upon us