In regard to 5:28- Do we stand idly and get killed?
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Thus I think that maybe since it says because of what happened between the two sons of Adam that Allah decreed the laws of who you can kill under certain conditions which would correct what the son who died could have fought back rather than assume all forms of killing are not allowed. Though that's only a possible theory I am getting from this, but do you think it makes sense some sense here?
Salam brother
To tell you the truth in all honesty I do not think Allah is giving us a law about who is allowed and not allowed to kill under certain conditions. I think the verse is part of an allegorical story and should not be interpreted or read without context. Remember, the Quran stipulates that we are not to make rules for mankind from the allegorical surahs/verses, the story of Adams two sons is IMO completely allegorical.
You should see it as a story and the message can be one, two, three or any number. We are all different and we can find different morals to any story. Allah wants us to be different so we can share different attributes with eachother. I found one really good (christian) message on yahoo answer regarding Cain and Abel;
Cain is the person who tries to please God through works as in trying to be good on his own terms. giving fruit offerings instead of an animal sacrifice which is what was required. It is like humans thinking they are "good" because they can think of people who do worse things than they do.
Ultimately there is a prescribed "good" that God set up with his commandments that can't be substituted. Instead of going back and repenting and doing the "right" thing, he blamed God and his brother for his own shortcomings. (God was unfair).
Abel is the one who followed God's orders and did the right thing even if it was harder to do. They are also a representation of Christ. Abel being the form of Christ and Cain being the sinners in the world who would reject and kill him -
Salam brother
To tell you the truth in all honesty I do not think Allah is giving us a law about who is allowed and not allowed to kill under certain conditions. I think the verse is part of an allegorical story and should not be interpreted or read without context. Remember, the Quran stipulates that we are not to make rules for mankind from the allegorical surahs/verses, the story of Adams two sons is IMO completely allegorical.
You should see it as a story and the message can be one, two, three or any number. We are all different and we can find different morals to any story. Allah wants us to be different so we can share different attributes with eachother. I found one really good (christian) message on yahoo answer regarding Cain and Abel;
Cain is the person who tries to please God through works as in trying to be good on his own terms. giving fruit offerings instead of an animal sacrifice which is what was required. It is like humans thinking they are "good" because they can think of people who do worse things than they do.
Ultimately there is a prescribed "good" that God set up with his commandments that can't be substituted. Instead of going back and repenting and doing the "right" thing, he blamed God and his brother for his own shortcomings. (God was unfair).
Abel is the one who followed God's orders and did the right thing even if it was harder to do. They are also a representation of Christ. Abel being the form of Christ and Cain being the sinners in the world who would reject and kill himAlright then what I wonder is why did he say "..."If you stretch your hand to kill me, I will not stretch my hand to kill you, for I fear God, Lord of the worlds"..."
And can you also show me that verse you mentioned that states that we are not to make rules for mankind from the allegorical surahs/verses?
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Alright then what I wonder is why did he say "..."If you stretch your hand to kill me, I will not stretch my hand to kill you, for I fear God, Lord of the worlds"..."
And can you also show me that verse you mentioned that states that we are not to make rules for mankind from the allegorical surahs/verses?
Your question is a very good one and I don't have an answer for you. I have one for me but it would be wrong of me to say it is right for you. It is my freedom to think, it is your freedom to think.
But if you are interested in what message Cain and Abel has for me it is like I said before, I think it is a message that the most courageous people are those who will not lift a finger to hurt another person, eventhough they could be killed. Gandhi is a good example, Buddha is another.........A true martyr never hurts anyone, he uses passive resistance.
This is what allegory means and it gives the Quran a flexibility to fit into all socities on earth. It also gives flexibility to be timeless, people change and the interpret stories different from year to year.
Surah 3 verse 7 translation from Shakir
He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
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this really made me question self-defense here.
The immediate verse explains the point translated by yousef ali "For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine" means; (I will not stretch forth my hand to kill you. I am very much afraid of disobeying Allah?s Laws,) it may, however, come about that in defending myself some harm may come to you. You will be responsible both for your intention to kill me and the injury you might receive at my hands. This is the exposition of the verse given by Parwez. http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/expo/expo_005.htm
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The immediate verse explains the point translated by yousef ali "For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine" means; (I will not stretch forth my hand to kill you. I am very much afraid of disobeying Allah?s Laws,) it may, however, come about that in defending myself some harm may come to you. You will be responsible both for your intention to kill me and the injury you might receive at my hands. This is the exposition of the verse given by Parwez. http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/expo/expo_005.htm
I'm still unsure what it means.