David Attenborough and God.
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In a recent interview with the 'Metro' newspaper in England, David Attenborough said
InterviewerBut you don?t believe the dear Lord created it anyway, do you? Hasn?t that got you into trouble with the people who don?t believe in evolution?
David Attenborough Not in this country. You get letters but it?s a very easy thing to answer. Someone says ?I believe a God of infinite mercy created every single species and the Lord looks after us and all the animals.?Well, what about that little African boy, five years old, sitting on the banks of a river, and he?s got a worm in his eye that?s going to turn him blind in three years? Did this God that you talk about actually design this worm and say ?I?ll put it in this boy?s eye?? To suggest that God specifically created a worm to torture small African children is blasphemy as far as I can see. The Archbishop of Canterbury doesn?t believe that.
InterviewerHe?s supposed to believe it, though, isn?t he?
David Attenborough Absolutely not! If you said to the Archbishop of Canterbury ?Are you really telling me that God got some mud, blew in it and made a man and when that man said ?I haven?t got a friend?, he took out one of his ribs, rubbed it in his hands and went ?boom, boom??? Williams is a highly civilised, educated man. He wouldn?t for a microsecond be so silly as to believe that. But it does put him in an intolerable position.
What is the answer to the emboldened part?
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Is everything unpleasant or painful necessarily bad? Why? When we are stricken by something nasty, we can either go deeper into resistance to everything, or we can let go of everything and leave it all to God. Events and circumstances are neutral (no matter if they're pleasant, dull or painful), but they way we react and respond to them can be either good or bad for us. We choose. And we can change our reaction later in time to some event. If it brings us closer to Allah and understanding reality, then we did something good of it. We are not victims on that level.
Is it not possible that whatever happens to us has a good purpose in it? This purpose would be to learn a lesson to soften our hearts so that we can lose some resistance and realize real importance in life, which is to totally rely on our Creator for everything. Is there some other reason we are here? Are we here just for fun?
I'm not sure this would convince Sir David, because it would require a sense of God... but he makes sense on his level of pure physical and natural "materiality"... but reality is not only what we see with our eyes and touch with our hands. He has a limited view.
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This is similar to the "problem of evil" or "why does bad happen" questions. Quite simply, if they did not, the laws of physics and free-choice/logic would have to be suspended.......... in other words, the world as we know it could not exist.
Some then respond and say "oh but (according to you) God is almighty and knowledgeable so he could make a world where bad things didn't happen and make it work" to which I usually respond "ok, please describe such a world to me, e.g. if someone wanted to stab another but they could not..... how would that work without free-choice/logic, laws of physics etc" to which they go silent.
Not quite the same as a worm, but same principle, e.g. a lion only attacks its prey not humans etc - how does that work with the laws of physics/logic etc.
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?Well, what about that little African boy, five years old, sitting on the banks of a river, and he?s got a worm in his eye that?s going to turn him blind in three years? Did this God that you talk about actually design this worm and say ?I?ll put it in this boy?s eye?? To suggest that God specifically created a worm to torture small African children is blasphemy as far as I can see.What is the answer to the emboldened part?
To me, that's an opportunity for believers to do something good and ease the suffering of another human while also learning more about how the world works. If that boy is taken to a hospital, the doctors there would have an opportunity to advance the field of medicine by treating him. They would know more about ocular surgery by treating his wound, and if he does go blind, anyway, it's an opportunity for humans to learn more about treating and/or curing blindness. We wouldn't have open-heart surgery if no one ever had a heart attack. We wouldn't know so much about the human brain if it weren't for brain diseases that needed to be cured.
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In a recent interview with the 'Metro' newspaper in England, David Attenborough said
InterviewerBut you don?t believe the dear Lord created it anyway, do you? Hasn?t that got you into trouble with the people who don?t believe in evolution?
David Attenborough Not in this country. You get letters but it?s a very easy thing to answer. Someone says ?I believe a God of infinite mercy created every single species and the Lord looks after us and all the animals.?Well, what about that little African boy, five years old, sitting on the banks of a river, and he?s got a worm in his eye that?s going to turn him blind in three years? Did this God that you talk about actually design this worm and say ?I?ll put it in this boy?s eye?? To suggest that God specifically created a worm to torture small African children is blasphemy as far as I can see. The Archbishop of Canterbury doesn?t believe that.
InterviewerHe?s supposed to believe it, though, isn?t he?
David Attenborough Absolutely not! If you said to the Archbishop of Canterbury ?Are you really telling me that God got some mud, blew in it and made a man and when that man said ?I haven?t got a friend?, he took out one of his ribs, rubbed it in his hands and went ?boom, boom??? Williams is a highly civilised, educated man. He wouldn?t for a microsecond be so silly as to believe that. But it does put him in an intolerable position.
What is the answer to the emboldened part?
salaam
I've had such conversations with many people, here in the west, where the popular attitute is to deny God because of the suffering in the world. My Question for them was 'why do you think you were created? Just to sit on your backside and plunder the blessing around you ???
On the other hand, when I read the autobiography of Abdul Sattar Edhi, who has seen real misery, inflicted upon people by others/fellow human beings mainly, I was expecting him to ask such a question. But not once did he say anything like this; he just get's on with his work bravo
If Muslims ask this question, I wonder have they understood what is clearly stated in the Quran for them
For now just three versesSahih International
And , when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
6165] Sahih International
And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees that He may try you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful
Sahih International
And remember when He made you successors after the 'Aad and settled you in the land, you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. Then remember the favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption."
If only they understood what is the meaning of the successors upon the earth this world would be a very different place hmm
salaam
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So people here think that a merciful and loving god is loving and merciful by creating a human and then torturing that human here on Earth and then maybe torturing him again in hell?
And that the expectation of a merciful and loving god to be merciful and loving is expecting too much? How exactly has that little boy chosen to be blind by being infected with this worm? I must have missed that.
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David Attenborough said
Well, what about that little African boy, five years old, sitting on the banks of a river, and he?s got a worm in his eye that?s going to turn him blind in three years? Did this God that you talk about actually design this worm and say ?I?ll put it in this boy?s eye?? To suggest that God specifically created a worm to torture small African children is blasphemy as far as I can see. The Archbishop of Canterbury doesn?t believe that.
es, Peace
While all the other living beings have a single frame of physical life, man has twin component in Him, the brain, the physical and the soul, the invisible power. Of the two, in any person, if the soul keeps the brain at a low, then he evolves by the invisible infinite power of wisdom. But, to the contrary if the brain is allowed to overtake the soul, his intuitive power falls to the lowest of low to fall a prey to be eaten even by a worm, a bacteria or even the smallest of creatures, the viruses. The soul receives the 'target-blessings' from God such as the one in this case, the little african boy, the target blessing from God is Do not worry nor would you fear about the worm; you are created as a human being, the finest of creations, having My soul to receive My Command and Wish to have your rule upon from the tiniest to the mightiest physically manifest creations to the metaphysical understanding of your brain, which you have as knowledge and that which I have allowed you only as a test unto you to make you stand a witness as to what you chose between the best and the worst."
God further says to His Soul, He has placed in your breasts, "Let the worm in the eye be eaten away by My power in your soul and clear the sight for you with a much better acuity than what it was before the worm entered your eyes." But the brain with its downtrodden, bedridden knowledge warns you, you will go blind in three years after suffering a series of errors in trials using their brain work for decades that has no prowess at all. O men! Let not the froward brain with its rudimentary knowledge stand up and speak against the infinite power of wisdom in your souls as My Wish, a beautiful command Let the worm in the eye disappear and May the vision become clearer. And be a believer in the best of the words I have placed in your soul; and reject the worst and most evil of the words that comes from your stray brain. Poor David Attenborough, speaks of and airs his brainy view.
Peace, es
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Has anybody paid any attention that 'this kind of discussion' mostly appears in the western part of the world (middle east included)?
And rarely appears in the eastern part of the world?Hint This is what they get when they view God (too much) as a human personality. They start to judge God like other human being.
?For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are Your ways are my ways,?
?As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways
and My thoughts higher than your thoughts"
-- Isaiah 55 -
?For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are Your ways are my ways,?
?As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways
and My thoughts higher than your thoughts"
-- Isaiah 55Life has one goal in that we need to stand by justness and ever appreciative obedience for which exchange of thoughts without pride is essential. This is because none knows whose thought is superior and valuable in a given moment. Isaiah55 is a bit unpleasant in this sense.
Peace
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Has anybody paid any attention that 'this kind of discussion' mostly appears in the western part of the world (middle east included)?
And rarely appears in the eastern part of the world?-- Isaiah 55
Sahih International
Say, "O disbelievers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
Provided in the western part of the world (middle east included) they understand the difference between worship and affluence hmm?For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are Your ways are my ways,?
They believe in the survival of the fittest I/we believe in the responsibility of the fittest.?As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways
And remember when He made you successors ..you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. Then remember the favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption
'Sir' David Attenborough/ you made a lot of money exploring the Africa your people once colonised and still exploit, leaving the Africans that you pretend to care about dry and empty. You the Big Boy, knowing well the root cause of their suffering, dare to shift the blame to God, for the misery of the Little African Boy hypnoand My thoughts higher than your thoughts"
You are finished once you are gone, but I/we beleive in the final return to the Higher Authority and accountability for the privilege of having stayed upon this earth.Hint This is what they get when they view God (too much) as a human personality. They start to judge God like other human being.
Hint Should one view actions of humans as reflecting God's, OR judge humans, according to their rank as God's successor authority here on earth?
Peace
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Life has one goal in that we need to stand by justness and ever appreciative obedience for which exchange of thoughts without pride is essential. This is because none knows whose thought is superior and valuable in a given moment. Isaiah55 is a bit unpleasant in this sense.
Peace
I think you missed the point,
Life events is like a chain reaction no matter how small they are.. Moses story in the Quran teach that..
And from Zillion of possibilities, the one which is actually happening (a.k.a the Will of God) is the 'best' possibility.The similitude will be for example in a game of chess..
Sometime a player might sacrifice a pawn (seem to be a bad move) in order to do a check mate in 3 steps.
And in aftermath the analyst shall say "It's one heck of a move! Great Move!"Take another example Hitler and the Nazis..
Despite all the wicked stuff that they've done.. there ARE good result coming out of WWII as aftermath.
From the end of colonization era up to great invention of automobile, rockets, electronics and computers (the first computer was made during WWII to decipher Nazi's cryptography) etc..The same case with The Mongols invasion which killed and raped millions...
Most of the time we don't understand on why so and so events took place.. but the best attitude is just to accept it.
That's what Jesus did, Moses did (after the lesson apparently) and so does millions of other muslims.. the true muslims that is.. and not the member of a religion named Islam."Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes.
Don't resist them - that only creates sorrow.
Let reality be reality."
-- Lao TseSalam / Peace
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salaam
I've had such conversations with many people, here in the west, where the popular attitute is to deny God because of the suffering in the world. My Question for them was 'why do you think you were created? Just to sit on your backside and plunder the blessing around you ???
On the other hand, when I read the autobiography of Abdul Sattar Edhi, who has seen real misery, inflicted upon people by others/fellow human beings mainly, I was expecting him to ask such a question. But not once did he say anything like this; he just get's on with his work bravo
If Muslims ask this question, I wonder have they understood what is clearly stated in the Quran for them
For now just three versesSahih International
And , when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
6165] Sahih International
And it is He who has made you successors upon the earth and has raised some of you above others in degrees that He may try you through what He has given you. Indeed, your Lord is swift in penalty; but indeed, He is Forgiving and Merciful
Sahih International
And remember when He made you successors after the 'Aad and settled you in the land, you take for yourselves palaces from its plains and carve from the mountains, homes. Then remember the favors of Allah and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption."
If only they understood what is the meaning of the successors upon the earth this world would be a very different place hmm
salaam
Salaam sister
i am agree with you. I think you pointed to the right verses to respond to the problematic of this thread.Earth was delivred to humans. That's a quranic fact. Human Kind is the first responsible of what happen to humans.
However, it seems that God made some interventions. At least, he sent messengers with words through rouh/dream canal of communication.
Is miracles direct actions of God or are they coincidences fitted by God between human history and earth geological History ?
I cannot respond to this question because it implies to know what means time (the physical dimension) for God.Assuming that God is making, sometimes, direct interventions to change the course of history bring somes problems
- At wich level of injustice God decide to make intervention ? Please note that this question is a relative question since injustice is applied to a very lagre panel of situations.
- What means "God knows future" if he acts on it and change it permanently ? What does mean then "Khalifa on earth" if God change continuously earth destiny ?
On the other hand, "Khalifa on earth" raise the problem of human kind responsability as a whole. Adam was expulsed from a kind of Heaven. He made an error and we, bani Adam, have to assume the consequences of that error. We inherits many things from our parents and from our olds compatriots. Community destiny is many times mentionned in Quran.
Last and not least, we "imagine" that God has to make some interventions relative to injustice criteria. From childhood, we learned to see life from the prism of the bad and the good. Is that the good prism ? Is God going to decide on heaven/hell destiny according to the good/bad criteria ? if Good/bad or justice/injustice are wrong criterias then why should we expect God to make interventions according to these criteria ?
If we think about Noah and Lot history. The criteria of salvation seems clear. It is possible that what we consider "good people" were not saved during Noah and Lot history. All people of Lot (at least women) were certainly not making homosexuality with men.Peace
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I think you missed the point,
Life events is like a chain reaction no matter how small they are..
"Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes.
Don't resist them - that only creates sorrow.
Let reality be reality."
-- Lao TseSalam / Peace
If life is a chain reaction, given the disobedient nature of man the world would have ended billions of years ago caught in the vicious cycle. Yet this cycle is broken and in its place the glad tidings of God is replaced because He is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. And prayer is the surest way of absolute resistance when something evil befalls us lest we would perish.
Peace
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So people here think that a merciful and loving god is loving and merciful by creating a human and then torturing that human here on Earth and then maybe torturing him again in hell?
And that the expectation of a merciful and loving god to be merciful and loving is expecting too much? How exactly has that little boy chosen to be blind by being infected with this worm? I must have missed that.
In another thread Ahmad Bilal raises the same issues. I answered him with this
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You have failed to provide a definition of "omnibenevolence" or "mercy" etc, which would result in any "problem of evil".
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The attribute of mercy has relevance only to an object; it presupposes creation and has no relevance to God ad intra. Thus, whatever your definition of "mercy etc" may be, it cannot result in God contradicting himself ontologically.
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Categories such as mercy or justice have no relevance to God, qua creator. Therefore your objection falls away, as God, qua creator, "...does whatever he wills with the armies of heaven and earth, and none can stay his hand and all the inhabitants of the earth are esteemed as nothing." It would be like going up to an artist and saying your work is "unmerciful" or "unjust", such categories are irrelevant
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Salaam sister
i am agree with you. I think you pointed to the right verses to respond to the problematic of this thread.Earth was delivred to humans. That's a quranic fact. Human Kind is the first responsible of what happen to humans.
However, it seems that God made some interventions. At least, he sent messengers with words through rouh/dream canal of communication.
Is miracles direct actions of God or are they coincidences fitted by God between human history and earth geological History ?
I cannot respond to this question because it implies to know what means time (the physical dimension) for God.Assuming that God is making, sometimes, direct interventions to change the course of history bring somes problems
- At wich level of injustice God decide to make intervention ? Please note that this question is a relative question since injustice is applied to a very lagre panel of situations
salaam noshirk
Al-hamdullilaah, despite giving us free will, ALLAAH does give us a reminder from time to time, and intervention too when the bearer of burdens can take it no more. These are the favours of al-rahman; al-rahim hail.
- What means "God knows future" if he acts on it and change it permanently ? What does mean then "Khalifa on earth" if God change continuously earth destiny ?
On the other hand, "Khalifa on earth" raise the problem of human kind responsability as a whole. Adam was expulsed from a kind of Heaven. He made an error and we, bani Adam, have to assume the consequences of that error. We inherits many things from our parents and from our olds compatriots. Community destiny is many times mentionned in Quran.
Last and not least, we "imagine" that God has to make some interventions relative to injustice criteria. From childhood, we learned to see life from the prism of the bad and the good. Is that the good prism ? Is God going to decide on heaven/hell destiny according to the good/bad criteria ? if Good/bad or justice/injustice are wrong criterias then why should we expect God to make interventions according to these criteria ?
Peace
Let's look at ourselves as parents; we send our children to learn (the name of the words), in the best schools we can afford, and we teach them whatever we can, to make them independent and prosprous. In the process we scold them, punish and reward them, according to our judgement. When they are qualified we expect them to go out into the big world to stand up for themselves, and live a fullfilling life.
Good parents would not interfere too much in their kids affairs; maybe leave them to fend for themselves, as Ibrahim(as) did, and expect them to learn from their mistakes. Only when one see's them in need of guidance, advice is given in light of past experiences. At times one may even hand out a bit of one's savings to help them over in hard times, but no one can live their life for them, no matter how much you try. Everyone has to go through life's ups and downs individually, so what else can a parent do to make life worthwhile for the children?
Do I make sense here? Please comment?If we think about Noah and Lot history. The criteria of salvation seems clear. It is possible that what we consider "good people" were not saved during Noah and Lot history. All people of Lot (at least women) were certainly not making homosexuality with men.
I hope to get answers to above for myself only, when I am well versed in al-kitaab insha'allaah, in the meantime think about Kane and Able; We are the children of Kane & Or does that mean we learn from his mistake and regret? hmm
salaam
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In another thread Ahmad Bilal raises the same issues. I answered him with this
- You have failed to provide a definition of "omnibenevolence" or "mercy" etc, which would result in any "problem of evil".
mer?cy (m?rs)
- Compassionate treatment, especially of those under one's power; clemency.
- A disposition to be kind and forgiving a heart full of mercy.
- Something for which to be thankful; a blessing It was a mercy that no one was hurt.
- Alleviation of distress; relief Taking in the refugees was an act of mercy.
Definition of MERCY
1a compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy>
b imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder
2a a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion
b a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>
3 compassionate treatment of those in distressIn short the opposite of just and cold
- The attribute of mercy has relevance only to an object; it presupposes creation and has no relevance to God ad intra. Thus, whatever your definition of "mercy etc" may be, it cannot result in God contradicting himself ontologically.
I completely disagree. Can you show where this is defined? I think it is the opposite.
You or a being can only show mercy towards a living being. It has no bearing on anything super-natural. No mercy has ever been observed or demonstrated on anything super-natural.
Unfortunately, the human-made attributes are a logical contradiction, as I have shown in my comment.
If a human judge is just, that judge will pass the maximum punishment, the death sentence, for a heinous crime. If this judge adds a bit of mercy, the punishment will not be the death sentence.
If a god is just, the punishment for sin is hell. If this god is merciful as defined above the punishment should not be hell. But hell exists. And the god is called merciful. A logical contradiction.
I am talking about humans assigning human attributes to a super-natural being, called anthropomorphising.- Categories such as mercy or justice have no relevance to God, qua creator. Therefore your objection falls away, as God, qua creator, "...does whatever he wills with the armies of heaven and earth, and none can stay his hand and all the inhabitants of the earth are esteemed as nothing." It would be like going up to an artist and saying your work is "unmerciful" or "unjust", such categories are irrelevant
I agree with you. Which is why I criticise human attributes being assigned to non-humans. This also entails the attribute of merciful to a creator/god.
Can you provide a justification for heaven and hell when people on Earth experience ups and downs? -
?Well, what about that little African boy, five years old, sitting on the banks of a river, and he?s got a worm in his eye that?s going to turn him blind in three years? Did this God that you talk about actually design this worm and say ?I?ll put it in this boy?s eye?? To suggest that God specifically created a worm to torture small African children is blasphemy as far as I can see. The Archbishop of Canterbury doesn?t believe that.
InterviewerHe?s supposed to believe it, though, isn?t he?
What is the answer to the emboldened part?Peace es,
What we have is a lack of understanding! What must be acknowledged is that our
knowledge of the machinations God is extremely limited. What so many humans try
to do is understand God outside of what he has revealed to us as if if we knew the
answers that would somehow lead us to a place of acceptance of what God has created.
To seek to understand some questions like why does God do this or that which he has not
given us the answers to is folly and nonsense and reeks of kufr like a person falling from the sky
into a open volcano, his opinions and questions are meaningless God does as he pleases.It may be that the believers forgot this verse while the kuffar will not acknowledge this verse!
He is never to be asked about anything He does, while all others are questioned.
Peace
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mer?cy (m?rs).......
In short the opposite of just and cold
This is exactly why I asked for your definition.
- Mercy, as a category, is separate but not in itself inconsistent with justice.
- Mercy is most definitely NOT the opposite of justice. The opposite of justice would be...well, injustice. So your "case against God" would be that he is unjust, not that he has contradicted his mercy.
- You were asked for a definition that would result in a "problem of evil", no such definition was provided.
I completely disagree. Can you show where this is defined? I think it is the opposite.
The attribute of mercy/compassion requires an object, even if reflexive. God does not need/have mercy on himself therefore it does not apply to God ad intra, but only to creatures.
You or a being can only show mercy towards a living being. It has no bearing on anything super-natural.
Re-read my definition. You're basically saying the same thing.
No mercy has ever been observed or demonstrated on anything super-natural.
Define super-natural? Mercy can be shown only to a living object. Yet the subject must be rational in order for the act to be interpreted as "merciful/compassionate".
Unfortunately, the human-made attributes are a logical contradiction, as I have shown in my comment.
No such thing was shown, as I will demonstrate below.
If a human judge is just, that judge will pass the maximum punishment, the death sentence, for a heinous crime. If this judge adds a bit of mercy, the punishment will not be the death sentence.
- The term "maximum" is ambiguous. The just Judge will punish to the extant that it is required by the law.
- If the law demands death and the judge does not provide it, then he is no longer just. He may be compassionate and merciful, but just he is not. For justice requires that the criminal be punished to the extant that the law demands, in principle. If not, then it would be equally "just" to fine a murderer a 100$, when the law requires his life. I think so far we agree.
If a god is just, the punishment for sin is hell. If this god is merciful as defined above the punishment should not be hell. But hell exists. And the god is called merciful. A logical contradiction.
This presumes mercy (i.e. spared hell) must be provided to all. Whereas, if God spares only one, then he is merciful.
I am talking about humans assigning human attributes to a super-natural being, called anthropomorphising.
- Notice the definitions you provided did not necessitate that one act as such with all persons, in all situations, and in all times. Therefore, you have gone beyond your own definition.
- Your idea of "mercy" is not even human, since no one would qualify as "merciful" if he ever acted with justice. It would be the equivalent of saying If a man only loves his wife, and does not "love" every other woman in this way, then he is unloving. An obvious non sequitur.
Can you provide a justification for heaven and hell when people on Earth experience ups and downs?
- Explain why it is relevant what people on earth are experiencing.
- Hell is the punishment for being guilty before God. In this, God is glorified for his justice.
- Heaven is the unmerited favour that God bestows on unworthy sinners, for whom he, out of pure grace and mercy, has provided a legal satisfaction for their sins, thus removing their guilt. In this, God is glorified for his mercy.
- Unless you accept that all men born of Adam, by natural generation, are completely spiritually dead and inclined only to evil, then you will not accept my justification.
- If you think men are born "tabla raza" as for instance Roman Catholicism and Islam teach, then you will not accept God's judgement as being just.
- These latter issues relate to scripture, and whether you accept what it teaches.
Remember your initial claim was this
"So people here think that a merciful and loving god is loving and merciful by creating a human and then torturing that human here on Earth and then maybe torturing him again in hell? And that the expectation of a merciful and loving god to be merciful and loving is expecting too much? How exactly has that little boy chosen to be blind by being infected with this worm? I must have missed that.
You contrasted mercy with "torturing" people on earth and then in hell. Strictly speaking this is irrelevant to God, qua creator. It is not the office of a creator to be merciful, as you agreed. It is the office of a creator, to do whatever he pleases with his creation.
Nevertheless the God of scripture, is not God because he created. He would be God without any creation. Therefore, your complaint is without merit; however if you wish to discuss whether God is just, qua judge, that would be another issue.
Thus, as we have seen, you have defined mercy to be "the opposite of just". This is false, mercy is categorically not the opposite of justice. Rather, mercy can be considered generally inconsistent with justice; yet not absolutely and in principle. However, even then your contention is misplaced, for you ought to say that God cannot be merciful, as a just judge, not as creator. For, as I stated in point 4 above, God does indeed show that he is merciful and loving; though these attributes do not correspond to God, qua creator or even judge. Rather these attributes correspond to God qua God; that is, in his person.
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David Attenborough Not in this country. You get letters but it?s a very easy thing to answer. Someone says ?I believe a God of infinite mercy created every single species and the Lord looks after us and all the animals.?Well, what about that little African boy, five years old, sitting on the banks of a river, and he?s got a worm in his eye that?s going to turn him blind in three years? Did this God that you talk about actually design this worm and say ?I?ll put it in this boy?s eye?? To suggest that God specifically created a worm to torture small African children is blasphemy as far as I can see. The Archbishop of Canterbury doesn?t believe that.
What is the answer to the emboldened part?
About physical events, termed . natural evil?, the Quran says ?We have not created the skies and the earth and what is between them (the Universe), but rightfully (<Haq)? 15/75). The many-faceted word "Haq" here means something constructive. Contrarily, ?? <bathil (wrong) means destructive. Therefore, the Quran pronounces the universe constructive (good) as a whole. there are countless FORCES OF NATURE at play according to Allah?s law. Man has the potential of discovering and harnessing those forces ? ?Whatever is between the skies and the earth is rendered harnessable for you (all)? (4513). Until the discovery of physical laws governing a force (SCIENCE), it remains uncontrolled and destructive. It becomes constructive when harnessed. Many forces of Nature were awesomely destructive during Man?s infancy. They become constructively useful as they were gradually harnessed through scientific work. The Quran felicitates men who approach the Universe with a scientific mind and make discoveries and thus help probe the rightfulness of the Universe and its forces. Quran states;
?In the creation of the earth and the heavens and the alternation of night and day, there are signs for those gifted with understanding. These people keep Allah?s Laws in mind whilst standing, sitting or reclining. After reflecting upon the creation of the heavens and the earth, they cry out, ?O our Sustainer! You have not created this Universe in vain or for destructive purposes?* Your Schemes of things are much above flaw. Grant us the insight to understand the functioning of these things, so that we benefit from them and remain safe from suffering.?(3190-191) (Exposition of the Quran By Parwez)
- The word ?? <bathil as opposed to "Haq" (1575) is used here
Man has harnessed hitherto awesomely destructive forces of Nature --- and considered ?evil? --- and have rendered them useful, constructive and ?good?. Rain water is flood if not controlled, uncontrolled fire is another such force. Yet another example is a wide variety of poisonous creatures (snakes, scorpions, etc.) which are now a valuable source of antidotes! Pain in considered by some as the ultimate example of evil. But it is actually the warning signals sent out by a body when it malfunctions. In the absence of pain, one would not be aware of a physical or physiological problem until it is too late. Pain is a blessing in disguise!
The verse 326 states the principal that "Allah?s hand has ?good? alone and He has measures / standards for all things" Verse 2216 states ?It may be that you ignore what is actually good for you and want what is actually evil. Allah knows and you know not? - (it means don?t depend upon your own knowledge of good and evil. Go by Allah?s knowledge). Quran further states all good is from Allah whereas evil is brought upon Man by himself. ?What is (wrong) with them? They don?t try to understand. Remember, the pleasantness you get is from Allah and your troubles are from you yourselves? (479) ?There is no calamity but brought upon you by your own hands? (4230) Sura Beni Israel says ?When We bless Man with Our bounties, he acts indifferent; when he is in problems, he is frustrated? (1783; 4151). Elsewhere, the Quran says ?When We give Man a taste of bounty, he gets carried away. When he begets problems from his own doing, he gets depressed (and disappointed)? (3036; 424. Sura Aaraaf says ?Fertile land yields well (by Allah?s law) whereas bad land not so well? (75. However all events happen according to Allah? laws; Quran says ?when they are in a pleasant situation, they attribute it to Allah, but blame the Prophet for their troubles. Tell them ?everything is from Allah? (?s law) 478- (All events (actions) bear results pre-determined by Allah?s law). And finally, ?If you are hurt by Allah (?s law), the only respite is from Allah (?s laws), as He has established measures for everything? (617, 10107), also 393.
