61:6 AHMED / MUHAMMAD ..... who came?
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Peace all.
And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! why do ye vex and insult me though ye know that I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you?" Then when they went wrong Allah let their hearts go wrong for Allah guides not those who are rebellious transgressors. 615
And REMEMBER Jesus the son of Mary said "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad Tidings of an APOSTLE to COME after me whose NAME shall be AHMAD." Then when HE (AHMED) CAME to them with Clear Signs they SAID, "This is evident sorcery!" 616
Who is told to REMEMBER?
If he is MUHAMMAD, who is REMEMBERING, then who is AHMAD who CAME to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL with clear signs and was rejected?
Thanks
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Peace all.
And remember Moses said to his people
Who is told to REMEMBER?
'Remember' is not part of the verses of 615 and 6. The verses are addressed to all the mankind present then and ever to come after, as a whole. The verses are not addressed to the Muhammad or Ahmad.Then who is AHMAD who CAME to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL with clear signs and was rejected?
Muhammad and Ahmad are both the same. They are not christened names at birth but the name earned by the person who lived amongst a fallen people. Muhammad or Ahmad means the trust worthy, esteemed, admirably respectable, highly regarded etc. Isa only foretold his people of such a character to come after him whom Allah will choose as His Nabi and Messenger. The Nabi will have such unseen, unheard of, un mistakably and un beleivably of high standard in character, with a Wisdom unsurpassed, He was to be full of character, further Bestowed upon, that made his (muhammad's) physical features immaterial to be visualised, by the people lived then. Every one took 'muhammad', the character in their hearts so that after his death none remembered his physical features. Allah saved His muhammad from being idolised, thus !
drfazl
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Peace Joe, all,
Salaam Hafeez,
Interesting. It seems the Dr. did not quite grasp what you were pointing at, but it seems to make sense when one looks closely at it that Ahmad is before the messenger in 7157-158.
Joe
I don't get what you mean, can you explain ?
How do you undertand 7158?
Say ?O people, I am God?s messenger to you all. The One who has the sovereignty of heavens and Earth, there is no god but He, He gives life and causes death.? So believe in God and His Gentile messenger prophet, who believes in God and His words; and follow him that you may be guided.
Thanks
Marie
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Peace be upon you all,
We are ALL to remember this, everyone that hears this message is to remember that.
Isa, son of Mariam, is the WORD of the God. When the mind (mary) removes itself from the tradition (seperated from her family), it has time to reflect without pre concieved ideas, that is when the God's energy/life force(ruh) comes to the feminine mind(nafs) and brings forth the "virgin birth" of the WORD(Isa).
This is why Isa is refered to as "son" of Mariam all the time. A "son" represents the new/fresh idea that projects out from the Mind(mary).
That is why we should all have faith with him(Isa) before our death because we all need to gain new perceptions so we can free our minds of tradition.
(4159) And that from The Book's people, except to believe with him (Jesus) before his (the individual's) death, and (on) the Resurrection Day, he (Jesus) will be on them a witness.One a human being brings about this NEW MIND(Isa), there will come after that the one who is the appreciator(muhammadun).
We should ALL remember that.
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Peace all.
WA- LA- QAD ARSALNAA MOSAA BI- 'AAYAAT -NAA 'ILAA FIRcAWN WA- MALA' -HI FA- QAALA 'INNI -Y RASOL RABB AL- cAALAMEN 4346
We did send MOSES aforetime with Our Signs to Pharaoh and his Chiefs he said "I am an apostle of the Lord of the Worlds." 4346
FA- LAMMAA JAA'A -HUM BI- 'AAYAAT -NAA 'IDHAA HUM MIN -HAA YAD.H.AKON 4347
Then when HE (MOSES) came to them with Our Signs behold they ridiculed them. 4347
WA- 'IDH QAALA cESAA IBN MARYAM YAA BANE 'ISRAA'EL 'INNI -Y RASOL 'ALLAAH 'ILAY -KUM MUS.ADDIQ(AN) LI- MAA BAYNA YADAI -YA MIN AT- TAWRAAH WA- MUBASHSHIR(AN) BI- RASOL YA'TE MIN BAcDI -E ISM -HU AH.MAD 616
And remember Jesus the son of Mary said "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me whose name shall be Ahmad."
FA- LAMMAA JAA'A -HUM BI- AL- BAYYINAAT QAALO HAADHAA SIH.R MUBEN 616
Then when HE (JESUS) came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!"
I BELIEVE
It was JESUS who came with CLEAR SIGNS of prophet AHMAD to the Children of Israel and NOT prophet AHMAD came to the children of Israel..
Thanks
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Salaams Br.Hafeez,
You say
And remember Jesus the son of Mary said "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me whose name shall be Ahmad."FA- LAMMAA JAA'A -HUM BI- AL- BAYYINAAT QAALO HAADHAA SIH.R MUBEN 616
Then when HE ( ? ) came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!"
NO OFFENCE BUT
HOW CAN JESUS SAY AN APOSTLE WILL COME "AFTER HIM" AND THEN COME HIMSELF?May be i am not understanding it yet.
Thank you.
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Peace be upon you MZ,
I am not understanding what brother Hafeez is saying either.
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Peace brother Mz357 and brother Idol
I am sorry it was a mix up and thanks for correcting
Actually I was reading the Bible for the clear signs of the coming of the prophet after him and then got mixed up with verse 4346/47, which is a replica of verse 616. It should be AHMAD instead of JESUS as I have mentioned in my earlier post.
Thanks
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Peace all.
And recall what time Isa, son of Maryam, said children of Israi'l! verily I am Allah's apostle Unto you, confirming the Taurat which was before me, and giving the glad tidings of an apostle who cometh after me his NAME will be MORE PRAISEWORTHY (AHMAD). Then when he brought Unto them evidences, they said this is magic manifest. 616
Those who follow the gentile MESSENGER, PROPHET whom they find WRITTEN with them in the TAURAT (Deut, xviii, 15) and the INJEEL (John xiv, 16) for HE commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in HIM honor HIM help HIM and follow the light which is sent down with HIM it is they who will prosper." 7157
The name REVEALED by prophet Jesus of the coming MESSENGER was (AHMAD) the more PRAISEWORTHY. (616)
The signs of the coming gentile MESSENGER, PROPHET, are mentioned in TAURAT and INJEEL (7157)
The last (as of today) gentile PROPHET, MESSENGER sent was (MUHAMMAD) PRAISEWORTHY
Therefore I BELIEVE that the more PRAISEWORTHY (AHMAD) (revealed be Jesus) and the PRAISEWORTHY (MUHAMMAD) the gentile PROPHET, MESSENGER found in the TAURAT and INJEEL are one and the same.
THE MESSENGERS
There were many MESSENGERS during the time of the prophet
O ye (RUSUL) MESSENGERS! enjoy (all) things good and pure and WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS for I am well-acquainted with (all) that ye do. 2351
MANY MESSENGERS WILL COME
Verily, WE WILL INDEED make victorious / help Our (RUSUL) MESSENGERS and those who believe in THIS WORLD'S LIFE and on the Day when the witnesses will stand forth, (i.e. Day of Resurrection), 4050
Thanks
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Salaamun alaikum Hafeez, all,
Don't you all find it very unusual for a messenger to tell his people (who will be dead by then) about ANOTHER messenger ?
All Prophets brought al-kitaab (2/213), essentially the same teachings. What need was there to wait for another messenger.
HafeezI BELIEVE
It was JESUS who came with CLEAR SIGNS of prophet AHMAD to the Children of Israel and NOT prophet AHMAD came to the children of Israel..
Yes, how can Ahmad (supposedly Muhammad) come to THEM ? They'd all be dead if it was 600 years later !
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Don't you all find it very unusual for a messenger to tell his people (who will be dead by then) about ANOTHER messenger ?
Absolutely! D
Thats why I understand Isa, son of Mariam, to be the concieved idea/word of Truth. The TRUTHFUL idea gives you ENERGY(ruh), which MOTIVates you in the proper direction, at that point, you become one who appreciates(muhammad). So after the idea from within (divine conception, not from EXternal, is followed by appreciation(muhammad/ahmad).
Does this have any errors or contradictions that I am missing?
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Salaamun alaikum Kyle,
Thats why I understand Isa, son of Mariam, to be the concieved idea/word of Truth. The TRUTHFUL idea gives you ENERGY(ruh), which MOTIVates you in the proper direction, at that point, you become one who appreciates(muhammad). So after the idea from within (divine conception, not from EXternal, is followed by appreciation(muhammad/ahmad).
Does this have any errors or contradictions that I am missing?
To me, your basic reasoning is solid. After all, 'maryam' is an 'ayat' which both means 'verse' and 'sign' (in the horizon and in the soul). Not surprisingly, 'maryam' is referred to with a MALE pronoun in 66/12
And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
Notice the translation says (her body). This is because the word used is 'fiHII' (in HIM) instead of 'fihaa'.
So yes, I don't think you're wrong.
I would add some details. That 'maryam' is where the spirit/word from Allah is nurtured before going into the world. Remember that Ibrahim fulfilled the 'words' of Allah and became imam to humankind (2/124).
We need to study the tauraat, injeel, the table which descended and various other Isa-related metaphors.
Good going, Kyle. I'm very much benefitting from your thinking.
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Salaam MQ, all,
And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
Notice the translation says (her body). This is because the word used is 'fiHII' (in HIM) instead of 'fihaa'.
- Also Mary, the daughter of Imran, who maintained her chastity/private parts (farjaha). So We blew into her from Our spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures; and she was of those who were obedient.
"ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feehi min roohina" which is translated by "So We blew into her from Our spirit"
You are correct to translate ?feehi (masculine)? by into her is not accurate. But ?feehi? refers to farj (masculine) ie "So We blew into his farj (masculine)".
Farj and furooj (plural form of farj) means the sexual parts/ private parts, the same word is used in the following verses
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And they cover/guard their private parts.
Waallatheena hum lifuroojihim hafithoona -
Except around their mates, or those who are their dependants, they are free from blame.
Illa AAala azwajihim awma malakat aymanuhum fa-innahum ghayru maloomeena
The believing men the believing women are asked to guard their private parts 2430-33
see also
3335, 70 29-30That 'maryam' is where the spirit/word from Allah is nurtured before going into the world
"kalimatuhu" (the word of Allah) and "waroohun minhu" (and a spirit from Him) are not interchangeable in 4171.
Marie
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Salaamun alaikum Marie,
I have considered your viewpoint before, but I had to reject it because it doesn't make sense to me for Allah to blow into her private part (farj). The word 'farj' is used generically, as you've pointed out, even for men. The word used for womb in Al-Quraan itself is 'rahm' and that word is clearly not used here.
thanks for pointing it out,
salam.
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Salaamun alaikum mquran,
Salaamun alaikum Marie,
I have considered your viewpoint before, but I had to reject it because it doesn't make sense to me for Allah to blow into her private part (farj). The word 'farj' is used generically, as you've pointed out, even for men. The word used for womb in Al-Quraan itself is 'rahm' and that word is clearly not used here.
thanks for pointing it out,
salam.
Allah blows inside (feehi) her Farj (sexual part) from His spirit And inside alfarj we found the womb.
Another example for the word "fee" which means inside/in
"ma khalaqa Allahu fee arhamihinna" translated as "what God has created in their wombs" (222
Allah speak about Maryam as a women
- Also Mary, the daughter of Imran, who (allatee) maintained her (ha) private part (farja) . So We blew inside (hi)(his farj) from Our spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures; and she was of those who were obedient.
Wamaryama ibnata AAimrana allatee (femenine) ahsanat (feminine) farja (masculine)ha (feminine) fanafakhna feehi (masculine)min roohina wasaddaqat (feminine) bikalimati rabbiha(feminine) wakutubihi wakanat (feminine)mina alqaniteena
Hope that helps
Marie
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Salaamun alaikum Marie,
Allah blows inside (feehi) her Farj (sexual part) from His spirit And inside alfarj we found the womb.
Another example for the word "fee" which means inside/in
"ma khalaqa Allahu fee arhamihinna" translated as "what God has created in their wombs" (222
2/228 is what I'm trying to get at. The 'farj' isn't something to blow into, the rahm is. No 'rahm' is mentioned in 66/12 , however.
- Also Mary, the daughter of Imran, who (allatee) maintained her (ha) private part (farja) . So We blew inside (hi)(his farj) from Our spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures; and she was of those who were obedient.
Please see 5/18
(Both) the Jews and the Christians say "We are sons of Allah (nahnu ABNAAA Allah), and his beloved." Say "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"
The term 'abnaa' here shows that 'sons' isn't necessarily a gender-specific term, biologically.
In the same way, Maryam, from ayat fil anfus perspective, exists inside every human, whether biologically male or female.
thanks and salaam.
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Salaamun alaikum mquran,
Salaamun alaikum Marie,
Allah blows inside (feehi) her Farj (sexual part) from His spirit And inside alfarj we found the womb.
Another example for the word "fee" which means inside/in
"ma khalaqa Allahu fee arhamihinna" translated as "what God has created in their wombs" (222
2/228 is what I'm trying to get at. The 'farj' isn't something to blow into, the rahm is. No 'rahm' is mentioned in 66/12 , however.
You don't get it, I rephrase what I have said, what is inside the Farj (fee alfarj)? The response is the womb (rahim).
Fee alfarj/inside alfarj = the womb.
In other word Alfarj and inside alfarj are two things which are closely linked.
Allah speaks about the daughter of Imran, and inside her farj is her womb, that seems logical and obvious.- Also Mary, the daughter of Imran, who (allatee) maintained her (ha) private part (farja) . So We blew inside (hi)(his farj) from Our spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures; and she was of those who were obedient.
Please see 5/18
(Both) the Jews and the Christians say "We are sons of Allah (nahnu ABNAAA Allah), and his beloved." Say "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"
The term 'abnaa' here shows that 'sons' isn't necessarily a gender-specific term, biologically.
Agree abnaa in 518 includes male and female.
But Ibnat/daughter is feminine, Ibn/son is masculine, the verse 6612, Allah speaks about femenine gender since the beginning of the verse until the end
- Also Mary, the daughter of Imran, who (allatee) maintained her (ha) private part (farja) . So We blew inside (hi)(his farj) from Our spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures; and she was of those who were obedient.
Wamaryama ibnata AAimrana allatee (femenine) ahsanat (feminine) farja (masculine)ha (feminine) fanafakhna feehi (masculine)min roohina wasaddaqat (feminine) bikalimati rabbiha(feminine) wakutubihi wakanat (feminine)mina alqaniteena
Grammatically, feehi (masculine) refers to inside her farj (masculine) which is her womb and you can deny it.
Peace
Marie -
Salaamun alaikum Marie,
You don't get it, I rephrase what I have said, what is inside the Farj (fee alfarj)? The response is the womb (rahim).
Fee alfarj/inside alfarj = the womb.
In other word Alfarj and inside alfarj are two things which are closely linked.
Allah speaks about the daughter of Imran, and inside her farj is her womb, that seems logical and obviousBut MEN also have furuj. (lifurujihm hafizoon). Therefore, farj cannot refer to a vagina or cervix.
Agree abnaa in 518 includes male and female.
But Ibnat/daughter is feminine, Ibn/son is masculine, the verse 6612, Allah speaks about femenine gender since the beginning of the verse until the end
If 'sons' can be used metaphorically, why not 'daughter' ?
Grammatically, feehi (masculine) refers to inside her farj (masculine) which is her womb and you can deny it.
Indeed I am denying but respectfully so. It would be pointless to continue seeing as we rely on different principles. However, winning academic prizes isn't the point of Al-Quraan. The point is action and subsequent results.
thanks and salaam.