61:6 AHMED / MUHAMMAD ..... who came?

marie

Peace all,

2191 brings an additional information to 6612

The article "ha" in "feeha" refers to the femenine gender which refers to the daughter of Imran Maryam who was selected over the women of the worlds(342)
In 2191, "feeha refers to Maryan the dauther of Imran (femenine gender)
2191. And the one who protected her private part, so We blew into/inside her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.

Waallatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feeha min roohina wajaAAalnaha waibnaha ayatanlilAAalameena

The article "hi" in "feehi" refers to the masculine gender which refers to farja (masculine gender).

Also Mary, the daughter of Imran, who guard her private part. So We blew into/inside "him" (her private part) from Our spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures; and she was of those who were obedient.

Wamaryama ibnata AAimrana allatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feehi min roohina wasaddaqat bikalimati rabbiha wakutubihi wakanatmina alqaniteena

Allah knows best
Marie

mquran

Salaamun alaikum Marie,

Many thanks for showing the contrast, masha Allah. As far I can see, the constants of both verses 21/91 and 66/12 are

allati
ahsanat
farjaha

since all three of these are the same, this means that the gender change of 'fihi' and 'fiha' cannot be because of any of them. This follows because the Quran is 'kitaaban MUTASHABIHAAN mathany' (39/23).

The only difference is 'maryam' and 'ibnaatal imraan' which is absent in 21/91 and present in 66/12. The change therefore would have to be because of either of these 2 terms.

thanks for a very stimulating discussion.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Can you give a summary of what you and Marie just debated? D

I am "lost in the sauce" D

When you have the time brother.

marie

Peace MQ,

No offence intended but you haggle twisted

I cannot continue this discussion and I was glad to debate with you.

I leave you with peace.

Marie

mquran

Salaamun alaikum Kyle,

Peace be upon you MQ,
Can you give a summary of what you and Marie just debated? D
I am "lost in the sauce" D
When you have the time brother.

Sure man, my pleasure

Basically, it went like this

I said in 66/12, the word 'fihi' (in HIM) refers to Maryam, thus showing her to be a metaphor.
Marie rejected this, and said that the 'fihi' refered to 'farj' (private parts) instead of to 'Maryam'.
I replied that that could not possibly the case, because Allah doesn't blow His spirit into private parts, when clearly the word 'womb' is mentioned elsewhere, but not in this verse.
Marie replied that 66/12 mentioned the 'daughter of imran', thus showing maryam to be female.

-I replied that 5/18 used 'sons' metaphorically, so why not 'daughters' ?

Marie suggested looking at 21/91 which said 'fiHA' (in HER) instead of 'fihi', thus showing that Maryam is a female.
I replied that BOTH verses, 66/12 and 21/19 BOTH used 'farjaha' (her private part), yet one says 'fihi' and the other 'fiha'. Therefore, 66/12 must be metaphorical.

hope that helps shock

Idris

peace be upon all,

http//www.toluislam.com/pub_online/exposition/glossary_m_to_n.htm

this glossary from Parwez says that maryium literally means highly placed which would be an appropiate replacement in all the signs containing maryium in the reading (quran), i'm not sure the direct source he got this from but his glossary sources are here http//www.toluislam.com/pub_online/exposition/reference.htm

Kyle, check out this glossary, I'm sure it'll help you a lot in your search of the correct translations especially in words like momin, kafir, rahman, raheem, rabb, hamd, etc. http//www.toluislam.com/pub_online/exposition/expo.htm

The_Anti-Mason

Peace all.

And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! why do ye vex and insult me though ye know that I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you?" Then when they went wrong Allah let their hearts go wrong for Allah guides not those who are rebellious transgressors. 615

And REMEMBER Jesus the son of Mary said "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad Tidings of an APOSTLE to COME after me whose NAME shall be AHMAD." Then when HE (AHMED) CAME to them with Clear Signs they SAID, "This is evident sorcery!" 616

Who is told to REMEMBER?

If he is MUHAMMAD, who is REMEMBERING, then who is AHMAD who CAME to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL with clear signs and was rejected?

Thanks

Children of Israel were present at Baqaa/Makka as well as Yasrab, "REMEMBER"? wink

zenje

Peace Anit-Mason,

And how is bakka, makka? ?