How can "salat" mean "learning connection/reading the Qur'an"
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Peace,
Perhaps this has already been answered, if so I would appreciate a link to the thread, but how can we understand "salat" to mean reading/studying the Qur'an if the Qur'an itself says that people before the book, such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, observed "salat"? What was their "salat"?
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I am in the process of trying to understand meaning of salat from the Koran and putting it all together. I don't agree entirely that salat= learning connection/reading/studying of the Koran based on looking at verses 4101 to 104. If you take this definition and plug it in these verses, does it make sense?
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Peace "justamuslim".
I see what you're saying. I've yet to do a thorough analysis of "salat" myself. I've read many articles and have studied it a bit over the past year, but cannot say that I have done a sufficient job.
As I see it right now, based on the different meanings of the root word I found in Lanes lexicon, the word "salat" may indeed have multiple meanings as one fixed meaning doesn't appear to fit every occurrence. Perhaps it means "prayer" in some verses, "blessings" in others, "support" in others, etc. In terms of the "salat" people are asked to "establish/maintain", I believe this meaning should be one specific meaning throughout those verses at least.
I was considering the idea of "salat" being a time to read/study the Qur'an, but that doesn't seem to fit with the previous generations we are told about who observed/established/maintained/upheld "salat". Although, I do see that there is a connection in 17110-111 about specific words/prayers from the Qur'an to "say". I could be just making a connection based on the word "wa" meaning "and". Perhaps these phrases are not connected as "wa" is used in so many verses.
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As I see it right now, based on the different meanings of the root word I found in Lanes lexicon, the word "salat" may indeed have multiple meanings as one fixed meaning doesn't appear to fit every occurrence. Perhaps it means "prayer" in some verses, "blessings" in others, "support" in others, etc. In terms of the "salat" people are asked to "establish/maintain", I believe this meaning should be one specific meaning throughout those verses at least.
Salaam jtc,
Try
Salaat = Connect/Connection
InshaAllah, it will fit all occurrences in alQuraan.BTW Aqim = Straight
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace Wakas and mmKhan.
I have to respectfully disagree with both of you at this point.
Wakas I read the link you posted. I do not see how you came to the conclusion that "salat = reading the Qur'an". You started off by giving the dictionary definitions of the words, but then chose "reading/reflection" which are not given. Doesn't Qur'an mean reading, why have a different word to say read the Qur'an? It seems like your analysis of what is being talked of in sura 9 regarding the idolaters is quite biased. Why can't "salat" mean prayer in those verses? You pretty much said "it doesn't make sense"; that is not a reason. Could it not be saying that if the idolaters started praying (praying should be to/for God alone not matter what the method is) correctly? Why could that not be a possibility?
mmkhan "connection" doesn't really mean anything to me or an average reader. What connection?
I am not stuck on "salat = prayer", but the alternatives that have been presented so far do not make give a reader of the Qur'an a clearer definition of the word or what to do. I do not see how "salat" simply means "reading the reading"; if it did I would expect that God would have said that in clearer words, and the dictionary definitions do not seem to fit that interpretation, also the question about the Qur'an mentioning previous generations reading a book not in existence is totally illogical. Connection is definitely a more fitting definition as I can see that in dictionaries, but it seems a little loose and open to all kinds of interpretations.
Right not, here is what I can say I know "salat" involves It is to remember God at specific times of the day. Other than that, I am still studying to understand what it is exactly.
I appreciate the input as it helps to see what others understand.
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I too have to disagree with mmkhan on salat=connection. If I fit this definition in verses 4101 to 104, it just doesn't make sense.
@jtc, I don't think salat=remembrance either. Once again looking at verses 4101 to 104.
In another thread, "how to concentrate on salat", I posted my examination of these verses. At this point, what I know is that salat=ritual worship as people have defined it to be. So what does salat then mean? well....I am in the same boat in learning/understanding. Hoping and asking God to help me and guide me to a better understanding.
Need to spend time digesting Wakas posts on salat.....
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2239
...if in fear do salat on horse back......
can one do salat on horse back and not even get off for wudu or tayamum?
peace
This is another place where there is tangential thought. In the verses preceding and after 2238 and 2239, handling of divorce is being addressed. While God is talking about divorce, goes off on a tangent talking about salat, riding horses or being in fear and then comes back to talking about divorce? Doesn't make sense. Some of these verses as they are translated simply don't make any sense to me.
Salat in the context of the verses in 2238 and 239 must have something to do with divorce laws or commandment. Could salat = God's command or laws (pertaining to divorce) in this verse? I am wondering....
Btw - the word for horses is "alkayla" (verse 168 ) which I don't see that word mention in 2239. Did phonetic search of "rukbanaan" but this word is not used elsewhere in the Koran. Does this word have another meaning beside physically riding a horse?
Regardless, how does one pray while on foot or riding? this verse is translated, "if you fear then pray on foot or while riding..." Fear of what though?
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what I know is that salat=ritual worship as people have defined it to be. So what does salat then mean?
Oops meant to say salat is not ritual worship as people have defined it to be.
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This is another place where there is tangential thought. In the verses preceding and after 2238 and 2239, handling of divorce is being addressed. While God is talking about divorce, goes off on a tangent talking about salat, riding horses or being in fear and then comes back to talking about divorce? Doesn't make sense. Some of these verses as they are translated simply don't make any sense to me.
Salat in the context of the verses in 2238 and 239 must have something to do with divorce laws or commandment. Could salat = God's command or laws (pertaining to divorce) in this verse? I am wondering....
Salaat = Gods Command or laws (pertaining to an issue) any issue - in this case it is divorce. Of course at other places it is in relation to other issues.
Btw - the word for horses is "alkayla" (verse 168 ) which I don't see that word mention in 2239. Did phonetic search of "rukbanaan" but this word is not used elsewhere in the Koran. Does this word have another meaning beside physically riding a horse?
Regardless, how does one pray while on foot or riding? this verse is translated, "if you fear then pray on foot or while riding..." Fear of what though?
Fear of not doing justice in the case of divorce in this case - you can seek the advice/ or council of the wise/ those who have knowledge about such matters.
peace
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Peace 357.
Would you mind explaining how you came to "salat= following God's laws"? Are we not supposed to follow God's laws all the time and not just at "fajr" and "'isha"? I don't see how this meaning can fit in here since "salat" seems to be something observed only at specific times of the day.
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Peace 357.
Would you mind explaining how you came to "salat= following God's laws"? Are we not supposed to follow God's laws all the time and not just at "fajr" and "'isha"? I don't see how this meaning can fit in here since "salat" seems to be something observed only at specific times of the day.
Just a side note
With respects to all brothers who follow the traditional belief system a parasitic hindu doctrine has been forged into the actual methodology of the quran - if you know there where two groups in saudia fighting with one another , unfortunately after the death of the prophet and his companions the prophets family was annihilated and the other group took over bringing with them there beliefs and culture thus then redefining the meanings of the quran - to my knowledge.
You are right we need to observe His methods all the time. So how can there be a fajr or any other fixed activity? there can't be one, its simple, check out the meaning of the respective words to find another meaning that best fits the quranic ayah.
The word that best fits the ayah meaning.
The quranic laws are not bonded to space and time , but to the activities/actions of men - to my knowledge.
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Just a side note
You are right we need to observe His methods all the time. So how can there be a fajr or any other fixed activity? there can't be one, its simple, check out the meaning of the respective words to find another meaning that best fits the quranic ayah.The word that best fits the ayah meaning.
The quranic laws are not bonded to space and time , but to the activities/actions of men - to my knowledge.
This does not really answer my question. What does "salat" mean in 11114, 1778, 2458 in your opinion?
I don't mean to be rude, just wondering what your understanding of "salat" is according to these verses which seem to clearly indicate a specific time.
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In verse 11114, specific time is not mentioned. Two ends of the day and at approach of the night - I understand that to mean all or entire day rather than a specific time.
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This does not really answer my question. What does "salat" mean in 11114, 1778, 2458 in your opinion?
I don't mean to be rude, just wondering what your understanding of "salat" is according to these verses which seem to clearly indicate a specific time.
Peace jtc,
Using Arabic Dictionary
And establish Council of all kinds for Prosperity and go forward from the anxieties indeed the good deeds remove the evil deeds that is indeed worth doing for those who like doing things.
1778
And establish Council and engage the avaricious till the confusion/obstruction/darkness of the anxieties and the desire of the scripture???I am not a language expert.
And sorry this translation can pinch some Brethren.
peace
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peace jtc,
You seem not to have understood the link I gave you. I recommend re-reading.
Perhaps I can clarify with a simple point
If someone gives you a book and says "uphold the bond" - what would you do, or what do you think that might mean?
It's really that simple.
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Peace Wakas.
I honestly would say "what bond?"
I don't mean any insult or disrespect, but sometimes what makes perfect sense to you doesn't really mean anything to me. To the average reader "uphold the bond" is an extremely vague statement. If by "bond" you mean "remember God", should we not be doing that through out the day and not only as dawn and dusk, and why do we have to wash parts of our body before "upholding the bond"?
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I agree with Jtc. I plugged in "uphold the bond" in verses 4101 to 104 and I am not getting it unless "taqsuroo" means something else other than 'shorten'. Still working on trying to understand....
Jtc - I think a lot of these words are not translated right. More and more, I think that some of it is translated literally when it is not meant to be. Ex if I tell you that "I will wash your mouth with soap" or "had my foot in my mouth" or "had my nose up in the air" or "chewing the fat" - these idiomatic expressions (and there are many) are generally understood by the average lay person. Just the same, I think salat and things associated with salat were generally understood by the general public at the time the Koran was revealed which we now are trying to figure out. My thoughts are based on a verses in the where God says that he made it clear, easy to understand..... But they are just thoughts as I seek a better understanding.
This whole washing (ablution) is something else that I don't get and simply doesn't make sense when you think about it.
Wakas - have you written any articles on this subject of ablution? I am still digesting and chewing the fat so to speak of the articles you had written.
I have not had that 'ah-hah' moment of clarity yet on salat besides that it is not this ritual worship.
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peace jtc,
I honestly would say "what bond?"
Exactly.
Answer is in the book you were handed.
peace justamuslim,
I have not written an article specifically on ablution, but I have discussed it on this forum multiple times. You said "...I plugged in "uphold the bond" in verses 4101 to 104 and I am not getting it...". Have you read/studied the link I gave http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm ?
If so, I also recommend http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
