How can "salat" mean "learning connection/reading the Qur'an"
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Just a side note
You are right we need to observe His methods all the time. So how can there be a fajr or any other fixed activity? there can't be one, its simple, check out the meaning of the respective words to find another meaning that best fits the quranic ayah.The word that best fits the ayah meaning.
The quranic laws are not bonded to space and time , but to the activities/actions of men - to my knowledge.
This does not really answer my question. What does "salat" mean in 11114, 1778, 2458 in your opinion?
I don't mean to be rude, just wondering what your understanding of "salat" is according to these verses which seem to clearly indicate a specific time.
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In verse 11114, specific time is not mentioned. Two ends of the day and at approach of the night - I understand that to mean all or entire day rather than a specific time.
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This does not really answer my question. What does "salat" mean in 11114, 1778, 2458 in your opinion?
I don't mean to be rude, just wondering what your understanding of "salat" is according to these verses which seem to clearly indicate a specific time.
Peace jtc,
Using Arabic Dictionary
And establish Council of all kinds for Prosperity and go forward from the anxieties indeed the good deeds remove the evil deeds that is indeed worth doing for those who like doing things.
1778
And establish Council and engage the avaricious till the confusion/obstruction/darkness of the anxieties and the desire of the scripture???I am not a language expert.
And sorry this translation can pinch some Brethren.
peace
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peace jtc,
You seem not to have understood the link I gave you. I recommend re-reading.
Perhaps I can clarify with a simple point
If someone gives you a book and says "uphold the bond" - what would you do, or what do you think that might mean?
It's really that simple.
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Peace Wakas.
I honestly would say "what bond?"
I don't mean any insult or disrespect, but sometimes what makes perfect sense to you doesn't really mean anything to me. To the average reader "uphold the bond" is an extremely vague statement. If by "bond" you mean "remember God", should we not be doing that through out the day and not only as dawn and dusk, and why do we have to wash parts of our body before "upholding the bond"?
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I agree with Jtc. I plugged in "uphold the bond" in verses 4101 to 104 and I am not getting it unless "taqsuroo" means something else other than 'shorten'. Still working on trying to understand....
Jtc - I think a lot of these words are not translated right. More and more, I think that some of it is translated literally when it is not meant to be. Ex if I tell you that "I will wash your mouth with soap" or "had my foot in my mouth" or "had my nose up in the air" or "chewing the fat" - these idiomatic expressions (and there are many) are generally understood by the average lay person. Just the same, I think salat and things associated with salat were generally understood by the general public at the time the Koran was revealed which we now are trying to figure out. My thoughts are based on a verses in the where God says that he made it clear, easy to understand..... But they are just thoughts as I seek a better understanding.
This whole washing (ablution) is something else that I don't get and simply doesn't make sense when you think about it.
Wakas - have you written any articles on this subject of ablution? I am still digesting and chewing the fat so to speak of the articles you had written.
I have not had that 'ah-hah' moment of clarity yet on salat besides that it is not this ritual worship.
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peace jtc,
I honestly would say "what bond?"
Exactly.
Answer is in the book you were handed.
peace justamuslim,
I have not written an article specifically on ablution, but I have discussed it on this forum multiple times. You said "...I plugged in "uphold the bond" in verses 4101 to 104 and I am not getting it...". Have you read/studied the link I gave http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm ?
If so, I also recommend http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
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Salaam, I will go straight to the point whoever makes any of these claims that salat is not a physical ritual are only showing their ignorance with the Quran!
Ever since the Internet has been available to anyone anywhere in the world, there has been a surge of new self appointed interpreters who are playing havoc with religion and are inventing many new absurd claims. Perhaps they are ego seekers seeking recognition and one way to get it is by being different!
Needless to say, we have heard these claims before where they claim that Salat is not a physical ritual but that it simply means to uphold commitment to God or even commitment to our daily activities. Others interpreted Salat to mean the state of submission to God.
Those who advocate such claims may sound convincing to innocent readers who may not be familiar with the Quran, but it can easily be shown that all such claims denote a person's poor understanding of the Quran!Let us read the following Quranic verse, it will give us proof that Salat is a physical ritual and not just a commitment (to God).
?And if you are among them and you lead the SALAT for them, led a group of them stand with you and let them have their weapons with them, then when they have prostrated let them stand guard behind you and let another group who have not done the SALAT yet observe the SALAT also while being on guard and armed with their weapons. The disbelievers would dearly like you to be heedless of your weapons and goods, in order for them to take you in a single assault.? 4102
The above Quranic words confirm the following
1- The word Salat in 4102 cannot simply mean a commitment since the words in this verse speak of the Prophet (or leader) leading the Salat. How can the Prophet, or anyone leading the Salat be leading a commitment to God? Commitment to God is a personal attribute inside the believer and is not something that can be led in a congregation.
2- The command in 4102 is for various groups of believers to stand with their arms while observing the Salat. Do we need to be armed to be committed to God? Obviously not, but because the believers are observing a physical ritual which makes them vulnerable to attack from the enemy they would indeed need to hold their arms with them.
3- The words in 4102 also say that while each group is observing the Salat with the Prophet (or leader of the Salat) that another group should stand guard. So if we substitute the word Salat here with commitment to God, or submission to God, then not only would the believers need to hold their arms while being committed to God, but they would also need another group to guard them while they are committed to God!
4- But that is not all, the words ?when they have prostrated let them stand guard behind you and let another group who have not done their Salat yet, observe the Salat with you? would raise further questions. If we use the interpretation of Salat to mean commitment to God, this would mean that the second group who have not yet observed their Salat, or in other words, who have not committed to God?s orders yet, come to the Prophet who will lead them to committing to God?s orders! Yet another proof to confirm that this absurd interpretation of the word Salat is in total violation of every word in 4102.
5- If we assume that observing the Salat means to be committed to God?s orders, or be in submission to God, then it follows that whoever has not observed the Salat yet is not in submission to God yet! We read in 4102 about a group who have not observed their Salat yet, this would mean that they are not in submission to God yet. So what are they doing with the Prophet, and how can they be guarding the believers.
6- Does the act of being committed to God need to be done in groups? Or does it need a leader? Obviously not, this again confirms that the Salat is a physical ritual which can be observed in congregation and under a leader who leads the Salat.
7- The verse continues to say that the disbelievers would dearly love to ambush the believers when they are not standing armed during their Salat. Once again this would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to say that disbelievers would love to ambush the believers while they are committed to God?s orders!
The above Quranic words make it very clear that the Salat is a very specific physical ritual and not merely a state of commitment to God?s orders. And because it is a physical ritual which involves bending and prostrating, it makes the believers vulnerable to attack from the enemy at times of war, thus they need to hold on to their weapons and also need a second group to guard them while they are praying.
Further evidence is found in the following Quranic verses
1- The Quran authorises three Salat and they are given three specific names, they are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn prayer), Salat Al-Wusta (Middle prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night prayer). If Salat meant submission or commitment to God, why would we have three different names for commitment to God? And why would the names of these Salat be related to different times of the day?
2- ?Salat is decreed for the believers at specific times? 4103
Besides the fact that Salat is given three different names in the Quran, we also read in 4103 that God decreed the Salat for the believers for specific times of the day.
Now to claim that Salat means to be committed to God or be in a state of submission to God, then once again this would mean that God allows us to be in submission to Him only at specific times of the day! Surely commitment to God is a concept that is independent of the times of the day!The specific times for the three Salat are given in (1778 and 11114). Once again if Salat means submission to God then we are allowed to submit to God three times a day and only during the specified times for each Salat!
3- ?When you travel in the land, you commit no error by shortening your Salat if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you. Surely, the disbelievers are your ardent enemies.? 4101
Once again if we assume that the Salat means commitment or submission to God, then this would mean that at times of fear from the enemy we should shorten our submission to God! Does this make any sense?4- The words in 56 speak about washing the face and arms and wiping the head and feet before observing the Salat. Once again to interpret Salat to mean submission to God would mean that we cannot submit to God unless we wash first? It would also mean that if we wish to be in continuous submission to God that we should wash non stop all day long? On the other hand, because Salat is a physical ritual which is observed to glorify God then it makes sense to observe a form of physical purification before addressing our Maker.
5- ?When the call for Salat is made on the day of Jummah (Friday) you shall hasten to the commemoration of God? 629
Here we read about a call made for Salat on Friday, the following questions arise
- Does commitment and submission to God need a ?call? or announcement?
- Is there a special call for submission on a Friday?
The believers are to hasten to commemorate God when they hear the call, but the fact that they are believers would indicate that they are already submitters to God, so why would they need another call? Do they need to submit again, and specially on Friday?
6- ?You shall not utter your Salat too loudly, nor secretly; but use a moderate tone.? 17110
Once again if Salat means submission to God then the question of using a loud voice or whispering would not be relevant. However the words advising the use of a moderate voice indicates that God is speaking about a ritual that is spoken and this confirms once again that the Salat is a physical ritual.
To conclude, all the above evidence confirms without any doubt that the Salat is a physical ritual with specific physical acts and not a mere state of submission or commitment to God.
http//www.quran-islam.org/faq/salat_not_physical_%28P1394%29.html -
Salaam, I will go straight to the point whoever makes any of these claims that salat is not a physical ritual are only showing their ignorance with the Quran!
Ever since the Internet has been available to anyone anywhere in the world, there has been a surge of new self appointed interpreters who are playing havoc with religion and are inventing many new absurd claims. Perhaps they are ego seekers seeking recognition and one way to get it is by being different!
Needless to say, we have heard these claims before where they claim that Salat is not a physical ritual but that it simply means to uphold commitment to God or even commitment to our daily activities. Others interpreted Salat to mean the state of submission to God.
Those who advocate such claims may sound convincing to innocent readers who may not be familiar with the Quran, but it can easily be shown that all such claims denote a person's poor understanding of the Quran!Let us read the following Quranic verse, it will give us proof that Salat is a physical ritual and not just a commitment (to God).
?And if you are among them and you lead the SALAT for them, led a group of them stand with you and let them have their weapons with them, then when they have prostrated let them stand guard behind you and let another group who have not done the SALAT yet observe the SALAT also while being on guard and armed with their weapons. The disbelievers would dearly like you to be heedless of your weapons and goods, in order for them to take you in a single assault.? 4102
The above Quranic words confirm the following
1- The word Salat in 4102 cannot simply mean a commitment since the words in this verse speak of the Prophet (or leader) leading the Salat. How can the Prophet, or anyone leading the Salat be leading a commitment to God? Commitment to God is a personal attribute inside the believer and is not something that can be led in a congregation.
2- The command in 4102 is for various groups of believers to stand with their arms while observing the Salat. Do we need to be armed to be committed to God? Obviously not, but because the believers are observing a physical ritual which makes them vulnerable to attack from the enemy they would indeed need to hold their arms with them.
3- The words in 4102 also say that while each group is observing the Salat with the Prophet (or leader of the Salat) that another group should stand guard. So if we substitute the word Salat here with commitment to God, or submission to God, then not only would the believers need to hold their arms while being committed to God, but they would also need another group to guard them while they are committed to God!
4- But that is not all, the words ?when they have prostrated let them stand guard behind you and let another group who have not done their Salat yet, observe the Salat with you? would raise further questions. If we use the interpretation of Salat to mean commitment to God, this would mean that the second group who have not yet observed their Salat, or in other words, who have not committed to God?s orders yet, come to the Prophet who will lead them to committing to God?s orders! Yet another proof to confirm that this absurd interpretation of the word Salat is in total violation of every word in 4102.
5- If we assume that observing the Salat means to be committed to God?s orders, or be in submission to God, then it follows that whoever has not observed the Salat yet is not in submission to God yet! We read in 4102 about a group who have not observed their Salat yet, this would mean that they are not in submission to God yet. So what are they doing with the Prophet, and how can they be guarding the believers.
6- Does the act of being committed to God need to be done in groups? Or does it need a leader? Obviously not, this again confirms that the Salat is a physical ritual which can be observed in congregation and under a leader who leads the Salat.
7- The verse continues to say that the disbelievers would dearly love to ambush the believers when they are not standing armed during their Salat. Once again this would make absolutely no sense whatsoever to say that disbelievers would love to ambush the believers while they are committed to God?s orders!
The above Quranic words make it very clear that the Salat is a very specific physical ritual and not merely a state of commitment to God?s orders. And because it is a physical ritual which involves bending and prostrating, it makes the believers vulnerable to attack from the enemy at times of war, thus they need to hold on to their weapons and also need a second group to guard them while they are praying.
Further evidence is found in the following Quranic verses
1- The Quran authorises three Salat and they are given three specific names, they are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn prayer), Salat Al-Wusta (Middle prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night prayer). If Salat meant submission or commitment to God, why would we have three different names for commitment to God? And why would the names of these Salat be related to different times of the day?
2- ?Salat is decreed for the believers at specific times? 4103
Besides the fact that Salat is given three different names in the Quran, we also read in 4103 that God decreed the Salat for the believers for specific times of the day.
Now to claim that Salat means to be committed to God or be in a state of submission to God, then once again this would mean that God allows us to be in submission to Him only at specific times of the day! Surely commitment to God is a concept that is independent of the times of the day!The specific times for the three Salat are given in (1778 and 11114). Once again if Salat means submission to God then we are allowed to submit to God three times a day and only during the specified times for each Salat!
3- ?When you travel in the land, you commit no error by shortening your Salat if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you. Surely, the disbelievers are your ardent enemies.? 4101
Once again if we assume that the Salat means commitment or submission to God, then this would mean that at times of fear from the enemy we should shorten our submission to God! Does this make any sense?4- The words in 56 speak about washing the face and arms and wiping the head and feet before observing the Salat. Once again to interpret Salat to mean submission to God would mean that we cannot submit to God unless we wash first? It would also mean that if we wish to be in continuous submission to God that we should wash non stop all day long? On the other hand, because Salat is a physical ritual which is observed to glorify God then it makes sense to observe a form of physical purification before addressing our Maker.
5- ?When the call for Salat is made on the day of Jummah (Friday) you shall hasten to the commemoration of God? 629
Here we read about a call made for Salat on Friday, the following questions arise
- Does commitment and submission to God need a ?call? or announcement?
- Is there a special call for submission on a Friday?
The believers are to hasten to commemorate God when they hear the call, but the fact that they are believers would indicate that they are already submitters to God, so why would they need another call? Do they need to submit again, and specially on Friday?
6- ?You shall not utter your Salat too loudly, nor secretly; but use a moderate tone.? 17110
Once again if Salat means submission to God then the question of using a loud voice or whispering would not be relevant. However the words advising the use of a moderate voice indicates that God is speaking about a ritual that is spoken and this confirms once again that the Salat is a physical ritual.
To conclude, all the above evidence confirms without any doubt that the Salat is a physical ritual with specific physical acts and not a mere state of submission or commitment to God.
http//www.quran-islam.org/faq/salat_not_physical_%28P1394%29.htmlWow i have to hand it to ya. That was great.
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Salaam, I will go straight to the point whoever makes any of these claims that salat is not a physical ritual are only showing their ignorance with the Quran!
Ever since the Internet has been available to anyone anywhere in the world, there has been a surge of new self appointed interpreters who are playing havoc with religion and are inventing many new absurd claims. Perhaps they are ego seekers seeking recognition and one way to get it is by being different!
Needless to say, we have heard these claims before where they claim that Salat is not a physical ritual but that it simply means to uphold commitment to God or even commitment to our daily activities. Others interpreted Salat to mean the state of submission to God.
Those who advocate such claims may sound convincing to innocent readers who may not be familiar with the Quran, but it can easily be shown that all such claims denote a person's poor understanding of the Quran!I can't agree more! bravo handshake
Salam and may God bless you, brother. )
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At the same time no one can impose an interpretation on the other. Just wanted to put that out there. Even though I agree with Babansif's post, I don't want to seem as intolerant of other people's personal interpretations.
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Peace be upon you all,
My understanding is that al salaat = the programming/conditioning.
Programming/Conditioning of what? The nafs. This is what we supposed to be doing.
By the Nafs.........he who purifies it succeeds and he who corrupts it fails. Period.
That being the straightfoward objective, salaat is the means by which we purify the nafs.
Maintain the programming/conditioning(of the nafs) and bring forth purification(zakaat).
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I am re-visiting the meaning of Salat now. I have been wondering about the three prayers prescribed in the Quran by name, then when I read 2238 in the middle of the topic of divorce, it makes me wonder if here it means bond, and to uphold the bonds/relations and the 'wusta'. I get the sense that maybe it means to maintain good BALANCED (wusta) bonds/relations with them (in reference to the divorced woman). At least when I read it in context.
Then what's interesting is the next verse, 2239, which traditionally is translated like this
"And if you fear on foot or riding. But when you are secure, then remember Allah , as He has taught you that which you did not know."
However there is something I found off about the second word in the verse, "Khiftum". It doesn't say "Fa in khOftom" (fear). But "khIftom".
I looked up Khif in Lane's Lexicon (Book I, page 770) and found these possible meanings
"Incited, or excited his people to be promptly obedient and submissive to him and that which he desired of him. Or he incited, or excited his people to levity, or unsteadiness, ignorance, foolishness and wrong conduct."
Also my understanding of the verse in arabic, is that it does not say "If you fear..WHILE on foot or riding.". If "Rijalan" and "rukuban" mean foot and riding..then to me the arabic suggests "If you (fear), THEN on foot or riding..". Not while.
So maybe it means
"If you are unsteady/ignorant/foolish about/towards (the divorced spouse?), THEN...(whatever the following couple of words mean), But if you believed/were sincere then remember Allah, as He has taught you that which you did not know."
It literally cites the word "khifa" next to the word "ignorance" on that page in Lane's Lexicon.
If this is correct and has more direct context in divorce/relationships, then perhaps this cancels the possibility that there is a Wusta Prayer and that Salawat does not mean 3 or more Prayers in this CONTEXT. Therefore it's possible there is either no specific number of prayers and/or there are only 2. I don't know..
Does this make any sense?
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I am re-visiting the meaning of Salat now. I have been wondering about the three prayers prescribed in the Quran by name, then when I read 2238 in the middle of the topic of divorce, it makes me wonder if here it means bond, and to uphold the bonds/relations and the 'wusta'. I get the sense that maybe it means to maintain good bonds/relations with them (in reference to the divorced woman). At least when I read it in context.
Then what's interesting is the next verse, 2239, which traditionally is translated like this
"And if you fear on foot or riding. But when you are secure, then remember Allah , as He has taught you that which you did not know."
However there is something I found off about the second word in the verse, "Khiftum". It doesn't say "Fa in khOftom" (fear). But "khIftom".
I looked up Khif in Lane's Lexicon (Book I, page 770) and found these possible meanings
"Incited, or excited his people to be promptly obedient and submissive to him and that which he desired of him. Or he incited, or excited his people to levity, or unsteadiness, ignorance, foolishness and wrong conduct."
Also my understanding of the verse in arabic, is that it does not say "If you fear..WHILE on foot or riding.". If "Rijalan" and "rukuban" mean foot and riding..then to me the arabic suggests "If you (fear), THEN on foot or riding..". Not while.
So maybe it means
"If you are unsteady/ignorant/foolish about/towards (the divorced spouse?), THEN...(whatever the following couple of words mean), But if you believed/were sincere then remember Allah, as He has taught you that which you did not know."
It literally cites the word "khifa" next to the word "ignorance" on that page in Lane's Lexicon.
If this is correct and has more direct context in divorce/relationships, then perhaps this cancels the possibility that there is a Wusta Prayer and that Salawat does not mean 3 or more Prayers in this CONTEXT. Therefore it's possible there is either no specific number of prayers and/or there are only 2. I don't know..
Does this make any sense?
Salaam,
As per my current understanding verse 2239 tells exactly how to do sallaat
2239
and 2014 explains further inshaAllah.
2014
ponder about them and inshaAllah you will have your answer.
Salaam,
Bender -
Hmm looks like Wakas suspected some of what I said, already http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/does_it.htm
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Salaam,
As per my current understanding verse 2239 tells exactly how to do sallaat
2239
and 2014 explains further inshaAllah.
2014
ponder about them and inshaAllah you will have your answer.
Salaam,
BenderAhhhh so you're saying it essentially means to Remember Allah/Keep Allah on your mind?
I will add that to my list of possible meanings when "plugging" them into the salat verses.
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Salaam,
I feel it is undeniable that prayer is some kind of ritual, but I always respect what others believe, it is part of my religion.
I know I do not get far by reciting the Bible here, but it portrays people pray lots of times, by prostrating, but also kneeling or simply crying out in prayer. Even a case someone is pushing their head against a wall and pray.
The people of the book seems to have prayed dawns (and/or mornings), at noon, afternoon, dusk, and at night. Sounds pretty much like the traditional practice in Islam.
As far as Quran tells about prayers though, it seems only 2 or 3 prayers are mandatory, but that sounds a bit meager to me, to be honest. Could be God's mercy to those who have no time to formally pray more perhaps?
I think the amount of prayers is like charity, it shows your character and is not a set value.
The description of when Muhammad is going to lead prayers with the people is a sign that prayers are at least formal. And why does the Quran remind on which tone to use during prayer, it must mean you are at least supposed to talk to God.
The circumstantial evidence is there in the context, which shines of a prayer ritual, even though how much we want to deny it.
Despite this, I respect your opinion that there may exist no formal prayer. I am not responsible for you nor you for me.
God bless you
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Peace,
Perhaps this has already been answered, if so I would appreciate a link to the thread, but how can we understand "salat" to mean reading/studying the Qur'an if the Qur'an itself says that people before the book, such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, observed "salat"? What was their "salat"?
I have just contemplated on this and a very important question came to mind...
If Salat is a ritual, then what did the previous generations recite during it?? Before Quran.
So Salat can't be recitation or reading... And at the same time a fundamental part of the traditional ritual did not exist!
I think I might be onto something... Allahu A3lam.
What did Abraham/Noah/Shuaib recite during his Salat? Or if it is just a reading, what did he read?
They were not given scripture.. What scripture did they have? Did they have any?
Is Salat a physical ritual but performed by glorifying Allah and making duaa whilst bowing and prostrating, without reciting Quran?
Or did the rules change when the Quran was revealed and Allah decreed for his worshippers to recite the final scripture during it?
Does our definition of Salat have to be consistent with the Salat of the older generations?
Standing Ovation, Please, cause what I just wrote on was awesome! .
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Salaam,
Salat does include the voice, there is a verse explaining which tone of voice to use during prayer.
The first surah is 7 beautiful verses about God, it is no wrong reciting that for God. But if you want to compose something custom then go ahead, as long as it is for God alone.
Prostration is not completely off, it is an ancient gesture of courtesy. Can be done and showing yourself very humble in front of God, or to kneel as you have an example of in the Bible.
Use honest words to celebrate and praise the Lord. Show you really mean them.
God bless you
