Too many differences? Or what do you think?
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First imposition wearing the veil.
Whether you want to wear it or not, the fact remains that he has asked something of you which you currently do not do. Why has this question, which is so closely linked to a certain type of mentality, been asked of you. The psychology behind this is of crucial consideration to you whether you consider it to be or not. If you really want an answer to your initial queries, I suggest you deconstruct and analyse these telling nuggets which, I believe, will reveal the truth to you more than what you directly ask him in regards to life after marriage. This veiling business is given high importance by Sunni men. As time passes, you will probably find more expectations to conform on your shoulders. It just so happens that your fella is a Sunni, but I would advise you the same of anyone always look beyond to the subtext!
By the way, did you say that you hadn't actually met this fella? If that's the case then all this could be a case of much ado over nothing.
Salaam.
Sajda.
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First imposition wearing the veil.
Whether you want to wear it or not, the fact remains that he has asked something of you which you currently do not do. Why has this question, which is so closely linked to a certain type of mentality, been asked of you. The psychology behind this is of crucial consideration to you whether you consider it to be or not. If you really want an answer to your initial queries, I suggest you deconstruct and analyse these telling nuggets which, I believe, will reveal the truth to you more than what you directly ask him in regards to life after marriage. This veiling business is given high importance by Sunni men. As time passes, you will probably find more expectations to conform on your shoulders. It just so happens that your fella is a Sunni, but I would advise you the same of anyone always look beyond to the subtext!
By the way, did you say that you hadn't actually met this fella? If that's the case then all this could be a case of much ado over nothing.
Salaam.
Sajda.
I have been thinking about his questions. Putting my feelings aside, this situation can either get progressively better or wost, at this moment I do not know. Worst case scenario in my mind, is if we find some type of middle ground then great for us you know, and if we don't then we can just stop speaking to each other and move on with our lives. Even if he puts up a face of acceptance, then later on tries to impose his beliefs upon me or if I find myself unhappy, I can always divorce him.
I haven't met him, but as I stated before, we are meeting very soon, I'm thinking by the end of this month. When we do meet up, it's not going to lead to a casual boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, were going to discuss our potential marriage, and try to weigh out the pros and cons. I need to analyze everything before I meet him this day (Insh'Allah), so I can have a clear mind and set my standards. Thank you for your input.
Peace and Blessings peace
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and believe it or not in some parts of the world men wear it too.
Yes, sure, saudis wear it usually while in Saudia, and all throughout Muslims history men have covered their heads, but that precisely is the tricky part, that all of a sudden for men to cover or not cover is indifferent, but not for women, for women out of the blue to cover the head, something which was the usual thing for most men and women, suddenly for women becomes a religious duty, and the head becomes another sexual organ that should be covered. Just the use it is being made of it, is disgusting and repulsive.
Yes indeed women should dress as they choose, but the pressure and the signification being given to wearing something on the head is outright brainwshing and a travesty of religion and faith. For me a good reason to keep off it as if it was the devil just as I keep away from booze and gaming. Unless, of course I had a natural liking for it or if wearing it were for me an enjoyment, but then I think I would cringe that it could be confused with anything religious and on top of it that I would be supporting feminine subjugation without wanting to do so. Just as it happened in the past and happens in the present with the use of clothes and shoes that are not comfortable or can be even harmful and which women are led to dress or use because that is what is required for them receive approval in whatever environment or in whatever sense not to speak also of the need to undergo surgery because their first duty is always to be beautiful and to be young.
At any rate, something which always turns out be true is that it may be easy to start hijabing, but if you want to stop and you have people around who deem it your duty, you are in for a nasty ride.
Salaam
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Yes, sure, saudis wear it usually while in Saudia, and all throughout Muslims history men have covered their heads, but that precisely is the tricky part, that all of a sudden for men to cover or not cover is indifferent, but not for women, for women out of the blue to cover the head, something which was the usual thing for most men and women, suddenly for women becomes a religious duty, and the head becomes another sexual organ that should be covered. Just the use it is being made of it, is disgusting and repulsive.
I agree 100% with you on this, it's like modesty is only prescribed for women. I've presented him with different scenarios. Like recently he did his Umrah and in his pictures there were other men walking around topless, while the women were completely veiled. I told him how is this permissible? He said it's tradition, and I said some of these men have attractive bodies, if you are in a place of worship you want to avoid attraction. He said I don't know, and I said exactly because this behavior is hypocritical and has no religious basis. You wouldn't go around walking topless in the street or at work, so why would you do it there?
Yes indeed women should dress as they choose, but the pressure and the signification being given to wearing something on the head is outright brainwshing and a travesty of religion and faith. For me a good reason to keep off it as if it was the devil just as I keep away from booze and gaming. Unless, of course I had a natural liking for it or if wearing it were for me an enjoyment, but then I think I would cringe that it could be confused with anything religious and on top of it that I would be supporting feminine subjugation without wanting to do so. Just as it happened in the past and happens in the present with the use of clothes and shoes that are not comfortable or can be even harmful and which women are led to dress or use because that is what is required for them receive approval in whatever environment or in whatever sense not to speak also of the need to undergo surgery because their first duty is always to be beautiful and to be young.
Exactly, I'm thankful I'm not a slave to high heels and skimpy outfits just to fit in. I'd wear the veil for personal reasons, because I've never really cared what people have thought about me anyways. For many years I had this "heavy metal look", I was really into this music, loved playing guitar, and didn't mind the snobby stares I'd get from time to time. I guess it's all a matter of choice, as long as the choice was solely yours, and not propagated by mainstream media or social pressure.
At any rate, something which always turns out be true is that it may be easy to start hijabing, but if you want to stop and you have people around who deem it your duty, you are in for a nasty ride.
Salaam
I feel if it ever gets this bad, I don't think I could go through with it. I need someone who will respect and understand me, I would hate to always have to live justifying and defending my stances, it's not a comfortable life. I'm hoping we get these issues out of the way by the time we meet (Insh'Allah). Thank you for your response.
Peace and Blessings peace
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Your are welcome, and I wish the best.
At the very least this hijab drum is straining on mental resources and psyhologically. It deviates a lot of the Muslim's energies from useful things to pickering and watching whether this one does this or that one does that with no elevated goals in mind.
After plenty of years of living through this question I am more and more convincing that it has been a torpedo shot very effectively to sink muslim societies. I can certify that it is a real destroyers. Disctract the minds from real issues and paralizes women by beeing scrunized, and paralizes males by making them into scrutinizers of women.
IT IS INDEED ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING
Salaam
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Can I be real for a minute? I don't think you believe in the veil nor do you want to do it. But you're so hooked on this guy that you're willing to sacrifice and be a Ninja Girl (that's what we call Hijabis in Arizona) and walk around wearing a tent over your body for him. I'm being judgmental here but I'd bet my flat screen HD TV (which I'm very attached to) that you're only doing it for him. Not because it will bring you closer to God or because you actually believe in it. People will do ridiculous things (which they often regret) for the opposite sex when there is an emotional connection. If you were my daughter, I'd lock you in the closet till you came to your senses. But since I can not do that, I can only give you this advice... Forget about today, tomorrow, next week, next month... Think ten, twenty, thirty years down the road. Will you be happy? If the answer is yes... You go ninja girl! If the answer is no, put an end to it now. Entertain no optimism for him in the future and don't budge an inch. Also with Sunni/Shia Muslims, nothin means shizzle till you meet their family. A lot of them will do whatever their family tells them to do. To me this is a sign of weakness. It ain't yo momma dat gotsta live your life. It's you. Have some balls and stand up to yo Momma. A lot of Arab and Desi men wear skirts well into adulthood. Take off the skirt Sally. Test him on this. Make sure he's man enough. This may sound evil but pit him against his mother once and you'll find out a LOT about your future. Just wait for the opportunity when his mother is in the wrong. With Arab our Desi mothers, this won't take very long! Words mean nothing. Test him only on actions. Good luck sis
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Can I be real for a minute? I don't think you believe in the veil nor do you want to do it. But you're so hooked on this guy that you're willing to sacrifice and be a Ninja Girl (that's what we call Hijabis in Arizona) and walk around wearing a tent over your body for him. I'm being judgmental here but I'd bet my flat screen HD TV (which I'm very attached to) that you're only doing it for him. Not because it will bring you closer to God or because you actually believe in it. People will do ridiculous things (which they often regret) for the opposite sex when there is an emotional connection. If you were my daughter, I'd lock you in the closet till you came to your senses. But since I can not do that, I can only give you this advice... Forget about today, tomorrow, next week, next month... Think ten, twenty, thirty years down the road. Will you be happy? If the answer is yes... You go ninja girl! If the answer is no, put an end to it now. Entertain no optimism for him in the future and don't budge an inch. Also with Sunni/Shia Muslims, nothin means shizzle till you meet their family. A lot of them will do whatever their family tells them to do. To me this is a sign of weakness. It ain't yo momma dat gotsta live your life. It's you. Have some balls and stand up to yo Momma. A lot of Arab and Desi men wear skirts well into adulthood. Take off the skirt Sally. Test him on this. Make sure he's man enough. This may sound evil but pit him against his mother once and you'll find out a LOT about your future. Just wait for the opportunity when his mother is in the wrong. With Arab our Desi mothers, this won't take very long! Words mean nothing. Test him only on actions. Good luck sis
Salam,
As I've stated before, I was thinking of wearing the veil before I even spoke to him. The only reason I haven't gathered the courage to do it is due to my family, I feel no support. I just recently converted to Islam, and I need them to understand me. This is my family, and it saddens me to hear them tell me not to wear it as they'd be embarrassed of me. Aside from that, I don't necessarily deem it a major sin, I don't know if I feel this way because of my family or my knowledge on the subject. But God willing, I will have a clearer mind soon.
Right now I'm analyzing everything, and observing the words he says. I know what it's like to cave in, and honestly it brings nothing positive. This happened with my last relationship of 3 years, my ex got progressively violent and dominating. Until one day he just hit me so I left him. If I had paid more attention to his family I would have seen it coming. I want to avoid everything I did before. I don't want to come off as weak or tame. I thank you for your concern, but honestly if I want to do anything it's for myself. Men come and go, but whose going to return my self worth?
He's talked about his family before, he said his mother isn't very pushy, one of his brothers even married a Christian woman. Once I meet him, and his family, I can get a pretty good idea of where my life is headed (Insh'Allah). Thank you for your advice brother.
Peace and Blessings peace
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Your are welcome, and I wish the best.
Thank you, wish you the best also and blessings of Allah
At the very least this hijab drum is straining on mental resources and psyhologically. It deviates a lot of the Muslim's energies from useful things to pickering and watching whether this one does this or that one does that with no elevated goals in mind.
After plenty of years of living through this question I am more and more convincing that it has been a torpedo shot very effectively to sink muslim societies. I can certify that it is a real destroyers. Disctract the minds from real issues and paralizes women by beeing scrunized, and paralizes males by making them into scrutinizers of women.
IT IS INDEED ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING
Salaam
I understand exactly what you mean here, one of the hot topics on Islamic speeches is the veil. It really does distract people from bigger things, like all the atrocities of war, famen, terrorism, hate crimes, pedophilia, oppression, punishing rape victims, stoning to death, and the list goes on and on. People need to wake up, and see there are greater things to be dealt with in this world, then a simple head scarf. If these Imams or scholars have so much influence, they should use it for good to try to create a better youth, and not just cling on tightly to these small issues. It really does just make things worst, I'm not surprised there are so many men taking these issues to heart, and sometimes trying to take matters into their own hands. It's truly depressing.
Peace and Blessings peace
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Salam Brothers and Sisters,
I've been speaking to this man I met online for a few months. A few weeks ago, he told me he's interested in marrying me, so we agreed to meet by the end of this month. Our backgrounds are a bit mismatched. He grew up in a strict Sunni household, and I grew up with a Catholic upbringing. He's Palestinian, and I'm Mexican. He's 27, and I'm 24 (age gap isn't great, just thought I'd add it). He's never had a girlfriend before, and I've had 4 boyfriends (before Islam).
When it comes to Islam we tend to agree on most things, except he always seems to have a Hadith for everything. Like today, we were video chatting, and my dog came to me so I petted her on the head, and he freaked out. Several times, he's tried to convince me to wear the veil, just to make me a "better Muslim". Sometimes I feel like my past relationships might bother him in the future. Even though he tells me, "it's your past, I love you for who you are now".
When we disagree, things get pretty intense, but we always end up happy again. I genuinely have feelings for him, and I care about him, but sometimes I think we're like complete opposites. I think that comes with everything, but I'm just thinking about the future.
Like what are we going to teach our kids? Would we have to pray separately? Would we live in Palestine, U.S., or Mexico? Would our differences eventually cause us to separate? These are the things I think about sometimes. What do you think? How would you approach this?
Thanks for taking the time to read this
May Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon You )Salaam,
That age gap seems fine to me, most people marry people younger or older than them. Although I'm not sure what you mean.
I would say, as others have said, Allah swt is your best guide in this. It's a very personal issue and we are probably missing details. It also depends on your personalities. Could you both agree to disagree? Is he willing to understand that you will be practicing without hadiths? It's possible then that if you continue to talk he may better understand your position and may even consider Quran only for himself.
On a personal note, I think I would rather marry someone following Quran only because we'd see eye to eye on the most important issues and also because I tend to talk a lot about Allah and the Quran. P
I wonder what image he has of you in his mind. Who is he imagining to live with? He won't be living with the image of you... he will be living with the real you. Images often tend to be more rosy cosy than reality. Is he expecting you, consciously or unconsciously, to change?
Anyhow, not sure whether this was of any help. I pray for your happy marriage and that you'll get someone who really suits you!
This is great advice. He should marry you for who you are, not who he thinks you might be or what he'd like you be.
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Salam Brothers and Sisters,
I've been speaking to this man I met online for a few months. A few weeks ago, he told me he's interested in marrying me, so we agreed to meet by the end of this month. Our backgrounds are a bit mismatched. He grew up in a strict Sunni household, and I grew up with a Catholic upbringing. He's Palestinian, and I'm Mexican. He's 27, and I'm 24 (age gap isn't great, just thought I'd add it). He's never had a girlfriend before, and I've had 4 boyfriends (before Islam).
When it comes to Islam we tend to agree on most things, except he always seems to have a Hadith for everything. Like today, we were video chatting, and my dog came to me so I petted her on the head, and he freaked out. Several times, he's tried to convince me to wear the veil, just to make me a "better Muslim". Sometimes I feel like my past relationships might bother him in the future. Even though he tells me, "it's your past, I love you for who you are now".
When we disagree, things get pretty intense, but we always end up happy again. I genuinely have feelings for him, and I care about him, but sometimes I think we're like complete opposites. I think that comes with everything, but I'm just thinking about the future.
Like what are we going to teach our kids? Would we have to pray separately? Would we live in Palestine, U.S., or Mexico? Would our differences eventually cause us to separate? These are the things I think about sometimes. What do you think? How would you approach this?
Thanks for taking the time to read this
May Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon You )Hola,
The dog story really 'cracked me out'...
I guess you need to resolve the 'differences' between the two of you..
I had a 'catholic girlfriend' before, but I guess it's incomparable as the context is different.I told her I have no problems of attending (Catholic) church service with her, and as matter of fact I did quite few times.
Even getting married in a church I absolutely have no problem.
But honestly, I used to make 'remarks' about her (illogical) belief when the topics came out.
And because I'm also quite proficient in the Bible, I can provide evidence that some of the catholic dogma has no biblical ground at all.We did talk about 'raising kids' and the same question popped out, in short I make a remarks go ahead teach them about Catholicism, and when time is right I will also teach them about Orthodoxism, JUdaism, Sunniism, Shiaism, Buddhism, Taoism etc.. Thus they will have a complete view and better understanding of things.
We broke up eventually, but it's not due to 'religion'.
Salam/Peace
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I would say, as others have said, Allah swt is your best guide in this. It's a very personal issue and we are probably missing details. It also depends on your personalities. Could you both agree to disagree? Is he willing to understand that you will be practicing without hadiths? It's possible then that if you continue to talk he may better understand your position and may even consider Quran only for himself.
We finally talked about it, I told him I'm sorry I cannot uphold the Hadiths to the same level as our Holy Quran, and we got into a debate. We ended up agreeing that the Hadiths are not perfect, and are open to questioning. Insh'Allah one day he accepts only Qu'ran as complete truth.
This is great advice. He should marry you for who you are, not who he thinks you might be or what he'd like you be.
All he told me is, I can only advise you but not force you to do anything, you're free to make your own choices, but how can you have Islam without Hadith? What are you creating a new Islam just for you? Where you can interrupt the versus as you wish? I said no, the versus are clear and truthful for all, if you feel insecurity, it is only from you or Satan, but not from Allah. Allah clearly tells us in the Qu'ran, he has made it easy to understand.
Thank you for your time )
Peace and Blessings peace -
I had a 'catholic girlfriend' before, but I guess it's incomparable as the context is different.
I told her I have no problems of attending (Catholic) church service with her, and as matter of fact I did quite few times.
Even getting married in a church I absolutely have no problem.
But honestly, I used to make 'remarks' about her (illogical) belief when the topics came out.
And because I'm also quite proficient in the Bible, I can provide evidence that some of the catholic dogma has no biblical ground at all.Same thing is happening between me and him right now. Like recently, I found one Hadith that states Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) can intercede for us on the day of Judgement, when the Qu'ran clearly states there will be no intercessors on our final day. He really had no way to back this Hadith up, other than saying he's just a "normal Muslim", if I want a better understanding I should ask an Imam.
We did talk about 'raising kids' and the same question popped out, in short I make a remarks go ahead teach them about Catholicism, and when time is right I will also teach them about Orthodoxism, JUdaism, Sunniism, Shiaism, Buddhism, Taoism etc.. Thus they will have a complete view and better understanding of things.
We broke up eventually, but it's not due to 'religion'.
This seems like a good idea, just to get a broader perspective, and I'm sorry it didn't work out between you two (
Peace and Blessings peace
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I see red flags in what you have shared. When you are emotionally involved, it is traumatic when the relationship comes to an end or things are not going well which causes distress and of course, you will feel happy when not experiencing the distress but over time if he is constantly telling you what you should believe and how you should behave or dress, your feelings will turn into loneliness, resentment and anger. What is his reaction when you criticize his beliefs? A comment here, a certain look there, and crticism can slowly chisel away at the relationship over time. Seems he is not accepting of your beliefs and you are not accepting of his - each trying to change the other. Hoping that a partner will change is a big mistake. What you are doing is imposing your views on him and he is trying to impose his views on you.
Glad you are thinking about your future children. How will you raise them? Will you raise them traditional Sunni? whatever you have said on this forum is what your children will hear at home. Is it fair to the children to hear their parents debating over religion watching their mom feeling unhappy? If he wants the children to go to Islamic school raised the way he was - would that be ok with you. Would it be fair to marry a Sunni and tell the children that their father believes in lies told about God?
Please don't let your feelings decide your future as your feelings can betray you. I have been there and done that. May God guide you both.
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I think there are two sorts of things. Difference of opinion on religion or on anything else should not be a source of distress if we are sure of ourselves. He thinks this and that, good for him, you think this or that other good for you. BUT when the question is not about different opinions where you can disagree in peace, it is when it goes beyond and he expects you to conform to his norms or the opposite nd he does not accept in deed and word that you are not going to do what he wants. They are two different things. Very different. One is feasible, the other is not if you want to be yourself and not a pale shadow and a property of his.
Therefore that hadith about intercession for me is a difference of opinion, but his expectations that you should conform to his idea of Muslimness for a woman is outright tyrany, so completely different.
Difference of opinion with close relationships is always present. There are not two people in the world who think the same thing about everything. nd all of us have to accpet that with good grace. Tyrany is nothing to keep quiet about for the sake of peace. It is the burying of the other in live just as they did with girl children in the old times in Arabia an which the Qur'an talks about. Nobody has to put up with that nor whould anybody put up with that, it is an invitation to the tyran to feel like a god, to shirk.
Salaam
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I have never talk with him or seen him, but the way he is genuinely concern about ur veil and stuff, he sounds to be a good man )
I don't see it as such. I see his "concern" as a major red flag.
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I think there are two sorts of things. Difference of opinion on religion or on anything else should not be a source of distress if we are sure of ourselves. He thinks this and that, good for him, you think this or that other good for you. BUT when the question is not about different opinions where you can disagree in peace, it is when it goes beyond and he expects you to conform to his norms or the opposite nd he does not accept in deed and word that you are not going to do what he wants. They are two different things. Very different. One is feasible, the other is not if you want to be yourself and not a pale shadow and a property of his.
Therefore that hadith about intercession for me is a difference of opinion, but his expectations that you should conform to his idea of Muslimness for a woman is outright tyrany, so completely different.
Difference of opinion with close relationships is always present. There are not two people in the world who think the same thing about everything. nd all of us have to accpet that with good grace. Tyrany is nothing to keep quiet about for the sake of peace. It is the burying of the other in live just as they did with girl children in the old times in Arabia an which the Qur'an talks about. Nobody has to put up with that nor whould anybody put up with that, it is an invitation to the tyran to feel like a god, to shirk.
Salaam
Totally agree!!!! Well said!
A lot of people don't know what emotional abuse is. I didn't either till I found myself in one. Like you said it was not the difference in opinion but constantly putting me down and manipulating me to conform to his standards is form of abuse. Sometimes it was subtle and not very obvious. Telling me how he genuinely cares about me and all that was just part of the manipulation.
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i didnt even know this thread was here Dee! im feeling so sad right now but hopeful that things will work out when he comes. it will put things on a totally different level but the decisions will be even harder. im praying that it works out for you. i didnt know your dad was an alcoholic, my mom was too =[
i dont understand why God chooses to enlighten some of us and not others. it seems as if enlightenment is the answer to most problems, what an easy fix -\ -
MsDee i thought about you the other day--its been pretty warm here the past few days, maybe in the 70's...and ive been wearing a black leather jacket around. you know i hate the heat and i was just thinking about being wrapped up in a hijab--and its not even full blown summer yet--and then i thought about you being on the west coast and wrapped up in hijab, lol. then i read Aamers comment about the ninja girls in AZ. phew that is sacfricing a lot of comfort, more power to all the women who wear hijab in ridiculously hot places, all joking aside muscle
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I see red flags in what you have shared. When you are emotionally involved, it is traumatic when the relationship comes to an end or things are not going well which causes distress and of course, you will feel happy when not experiencing the distress but over time if he is constantly telling you what you should believe and how you should behave or dress, your feelings will turn into loneliness, resentment and anger. What is his reaction when you criticize his beliefs? A comment here, a certain look there, and crticism can slowly chisel away at the relationship over time. Seems he is not accepting of your beliefs and you are not accepting of his - each trying to change the other. Hoping that a partner will change is a big mistake. What you are doing is imposing your views on him and he is trying to impose his views on you.
Glad you are thinking about your future children. How will you raise them? Will you raise them traditional Sunni? whatever you have said on this forum is what your children will hear at home. Is it fair to the children to hear their parents debating over religion watching their mom feeling unhappy? If he wants the children to go to Islamic school raised the way he was - would that be ok with you. Would it be fair to marry a Sunni and tell the children that their father believes in lies told about God?
Please don't let your feelings decide your future as your feelings can betray you. I have been there and done that. May God guide you both.
Salam,
You speak the truth, I just mind that he wants to uphold the Hadiths as divine revelation. I need him to understand hearsay does not equate to God's word, but it's difficult when he's grown up with these beliefs. At this point, I'm thinking I can just let him be. We both know our stances and our differences now. The only progress I've made is in him admitting he is not certain about all Hadiths, and that they are open for discussion.
We've actually discussed about children before, he said he'd teach them what he knows. I would not call him a liar, or allow the children to disrespect him, but I would only implore with them to think for themselves. If they choose to follow Hadith after, that will be entirely their decision.
It's true, feelings can make us cling on to irrational and hurtful things, I hope I can keep a clear and stable mind before I make my final decision, thank you for your input.
Peace and Blessings peace