Is Zina related to sex ?

noshirk

Salaam

Root
Words from this Root in the Grand Qur'aan
a) Total occurrences 24
b) No of constructions 8
(&#1588 . .

The basic perception infolded in the Root is that of indulging in excessive, immoderate, or beyond measure with reference to generally or universally accepted norms, limits and measures of behaviour. The perception and meanings of the Root have built in subjective and relational element. Moreover, since the excessive, immoderate and extremist tendencies are universally looked upon with dislike, abomination, repulsiveness, and unacceptability, therefore, it has inherent negative element. For reason of built in subjective and relational element, it is the context and related field which will determine and expose its meanings with reference to that context and in definite state generally about the irrational, unnatural, obscene, pervert and excessively emotional sexual conduct.

There is no active participle and passive participle in it. On the contrary Zina (&#1575 is for illegal intercourse; premarital or extramarital.

is a Verbal Noun signifying an act only. It denotes the act of intercourse and a state where the male genitalia intercourses with female genitalia. It does not refer to the doer of act as to who are they who are performing intercourse.

The woman performing in the act of intercourse is Active Participle
and the man performing in the act of intercourse is also Active Participle .

This act of intercourse is certainly but any thing regarded as is not Zina. All ilicit sexual activities minus Zina are . Similarly rape is not Zina, whether done by a man or by a woman or women with a man, since Zina is only with mutual consent.

root fahisha is more clear than root of zina

zina has many understandings, the problem is to find wich one fit better with context in wich it is used in quran.

root zina doesnt point to illegal intercourse

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so z n w root is near the meaning of "shortening" something. Defaming is shortening proofs when making accusations.

interesting also this

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zina is here opposed to reason.

here again

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notice use in red part.
it is applied to unreasonable words. znw is dereasonable words.
in blue part, zina is said to be appliable to women making bagha (following desires) ???

but, the better proof that zeena is not illegal intercourse is that all islamic scholars agree on that.
from my own experience, they cannot agree on something true.

so, dear mazhar, don't come again with traditional understanding of schorlars as proof. It is what i am contesting

Peace

Mazhar

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What is he saying?

What classical lexicons have said is translated by Lane as under

1 , aor. , inf. n. and , (S, Mgh, * Msb, K,) the latter an inf. n. of 3 (S, Mgh, Msb, K) also, (S, Mgh, K,) but said by some to be a dial. var. of the former, (Msb,) the former being of the dial. of the people of El-Hij?z, (Lh, S, Msb, TA,) and the latter of the dial. of Benoo-Temeem, (Lh, TA,) or of the people of Nejd, (S, Msb, TA,) He committed fornication or adultery; (El-Mun?wee, Er-R?ghib, TA with her (MA) but accord. to El-Mun?wee, in the proper language of the Arabs, signifies the mounting upon a thing; and in the language of the law it signifies the commission of the act first mentioned above it is syn. with and in like manner one says of a woman (TA) , inf. n. , also signifies the same (TA) and so does , inf. n. and (K) one says of a woman, , inf. n. and , meaning . (S.) It is said in a prov., applied to him who does not remain in one state, or condition; neither in good nor in evil (Meyd) or to him who refrains from doing good and then is excessive , or from evil and then is excessive therein; not continuing to pursue one way. (TA.) 2 , inf. n. , (S, Mgh, Msb, TA,) He said to him (S, TA) or he imputed to him ; (Mgh, Msb, TA and so , accord. to the copies of the K; but in the M, , which, it is there said, has not been heard except in a trad. of the daughter of El- Hasan. (TA.) -A2- See also 1. -A3- And see 2 in art. . 3 , inf. n. and , (Mgh, Msb.) -b2- See also 1, in two places. -A2- And see 2. 4 see 2. , often written see the next paragraph, in two places. A single act of (Msb, TA) and is dualized they say (TA) thus using the dual of , the lawyers say, (Msb, TA) but in the saying , or , the right word is . (Mgh.) One says also, , and sometimes , (K,) but the former is the more chaste, (Az, TA,) meaning (K) or and , (Mgh, Msb,) and and , (Mgh,) with fet-h and with kesr, contr. of and , (Mgh,) or contr. of (Msb) or and , contr. of and (S) accord. to Fr, one says, and and , all with fet-h accord. to Ks, however, one may say and , with kesr, but only with fet-h (TA) ISk says that and are both with kesr and fet-h. (Msb.) . See the next preceding paragraph, in five places. -A2- Also The last of a man's children; (K like as signifies the ? last of a woman's children. ? (TA.) see an instance of its dual voce is the rel. n. from ; (S, Msb the being changed into because three s are deemed difficult of pronunciation (Msb) and the rel. n. from is . (S.) see what next precedes. an appellation applied to A female ape (&#1612. (S.) act. part. n. of (Msb) fem. (Kur xxiv. 2 and 3) pl. masc. , like pl. of (Msb) said to a woman is correct as being apocopated. (Mgh.) fem. of -b2- Applied to a man, it has an intensive meaning . (Mgh.) Credit Lane Lexicon

Grand Qur'aan has used this Root for 9 times. All are about illicit intercourse.

noshirk

salaam Mazhar

243 The ZANI will only marry a ZANIA or she who is a polytheist. And the ZANIA, she will only be married to an ZANI or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.

following your reasoning
if a married women commit illegal intercourse with another man than his husband we have to

1- accuse the husband to be a polytheist and forbid him for example to make Hajj
2- accuse the husband to be a zani and gives him 100 leashes

what is the good response ?

Peace

Mazhar

salaam Mazhar

243 The ZANI will only marry a ZANIA or she who is a polytheist. And the ZANIA, she will only be married to an ZANI or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.

following your reasoning
if a married women commit illegal intercourse with another man than his husband we have to

1- accuse the husband to be a polytheist and forbid him for example to make Hajj
2- accuse the husband to be a zani and gives him 100 leashes

what is the good response ?

Peace

Salamun alaika,

The Man held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse shall not henceforth enter into the contract of Nikah matrimonial bondage except with a woman-convict of illicit sexual intercourse or a polytheist woman.
And no one except a convict-man of illicit sexual intercourse or a polytheist shall marry certain woman held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse.
And this marriage entering into Nikah with the man or the woman convicted of illicit sexual intercourse is prohibited for the Believers.

Implication of the injunction is that in case of a married man convicted guilty of Zina-illicit intercourse the bondage of Nikah with the believing woman who is his wife ceases to exist. They stand seperated. The convict is at liberty to enter into marriage with any convict woman on charge of Zina or a polytheist woman. Both such women are prohibited for marriage for the believing men.

The Ayah negates those conjectural gossips which propose stoning to death. Obviously a dead person cannot marry while Qur'aan allows him to marry.

noshirk

Salamun alaika,

The Man held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse shall not henceforth enter into the contract of Nikah matrimonial bondage except with a woman-convict of illicit sexual intercourse or a polytheist woman.
And no one except a convict-man of illicit sexual intercourse or a polytheist shall marry certain woman held guilty of consented illicit sexual intercourse.
And this marriage entering into Nikah with the man or the woman convicted of illicit sexual intercourse is prohibited for the Believers.

Implication of the injunction is that in case of a married man convicted guilty of Zina-illicit intercourse the bondage of Nikah with the believing woman who is his wife ceases to exist. They stand seperated. The convict is at liberty to enter into marriage with any convict woman on charge of Zina or a polytheist woman. Both such women are prohibited for marriage for the believing men.

The Ayah negates those conjectural gossips which propose stoning to death. Obviously a dead person cannot marry while Qur'aan allows him to marry.

Salaam Mazhar

let suppose that my wife make an aduletery and that i decided to forgive her because of what we already lived together, for our children ...

Now, as you see, i can have a different understanding of word zina than you.

now, if i understand well
you mazhar, with your understanding
you decide to leash my wife 100 leashes while i am not agree
you ask me to divorce her while i am not agree

all that because you think that your understanding is better than mine.

Zina is not adultery.
both my heart and my brain tell me that.
it is my global understanding of Quran that tell me that zina=adultery would be a big anomaly in quran

if zina is adultery then i will probably go to hell simply because it would imply that i have understood nothing in quran.

241 A chapter which We have sent down and imposed, and We have sent down in it clear revelations that you may remember.
when a sourate begin like that, it cannot speak about laws quite impossible to apply.

moreover, you cannot, only with quran, decide exactly from wich point of "flirting", flirting should be considered as adultery.

the problem is much more difficult than you think.
if you accept that hypothesis, then you have also another big debate indisputable proof versus 4 testimonies.

of course, you have also the very big problem of what to apply to the general crime of defaming when it is prooven.
as i already told, defaming a mohasanet of adultery worth 80 leashes. What for defaming of crime....

So, dear mazhar, i am not agree. You haven't the right the leash my wife for what you consider your beliefs.
i am the victim. You have nothing to do between me, my wife, his friend and my god if i decide to forgive her.

Peace

Mazhar

Salaam Mazhar

let suppose that my wife make an aduletery and that i decided to forgive her because of what we already lived together, for our children ...

Law does not work on suppositions. And law does not come into play without there being a complainant about the commission of an offence. And the complainant is required to produce evidence to the satisfaction of the court of competence to prove the alleged charge.

And please avoid making false suppositions about your wife. Wives are more courageous in forgiving sexual shortcomings of their husbands than the husbands. No charge of ilicit sex lies against one's own wife unless he produces four eye witnesses to testify the allegation in the court of law or undertakes the procedure prescribed in the Qur'aan in support of his allegation. And if the wife also rebuts that personal evidence of her husband, nothing stands against her.

god1quran1

NoShirk,

Can you provide your Quranic understanding of Zina in a clear manner?

thanks.

noshirk

NoShirk,

Can you provide your Quranic understanding of Zina in a clear manner?

thanks.

Salaam god1quran1

my actual understanding is this
making zina=defaming someone, accusing him to have commited a crime he didn't committed.

244 And those who accuse the independent female (MOHASANAT)s, then they do not bring forth four witnesses, you shall lash them with eighty lashes, and do not accept their testimony ever; and those are the wicked.

MOHASANAT is women who have sufficient money to be independant. They don't need to work.
So mohsanat can surmont more easely the prejudice of false accusations. In other hand, it is more difficult to make credible accusation against mohasanat.
Giving 80 lashes to defamer of a mohsanat is, i think, a way to calibrate the punition and to show that defaming is a great sin.

415 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way out.

Here, we have another attitude to have towards women comminting "lewdness". Explaining the meaning of 415 is another debate. We have only to notice that there is no leashes there.

4240 The recompense for a crime shall be its equivalence, but whoever forgives and makes right, then his reward is upon God. He does not like the wrongdoers.
4241 And for any who demand action after being wronged, those are not committing any error.
4242 The error is upon those who oppress the people, and they aggress in the land without cause. For these will be a painful retribution.

in quran, we have a sample of adultery accusation in history of Yusuf. There was no leashes on the story.
1227 ?And if his shirt is torn from behind, then she is lying, and he is truthful.?
1228 So when he saw that his shirt was torn from behind, he said ?This is from your female planning, your female planning is indeed great!?

there was not also 4 testimonies. There was a proof that Yusuf was not guilty.

By definition, a defamer has no proofs. So at least 4 testimonies are needed in case of lack of proofs.

1276 So he began with their bags before the bag of his brother. Then he brought it out of the bag of his brother. It was such that We planned for Joseph, for he would not have been able to take his brother under the system of the king, except that God wished it so. We raise the degrees of whom We please, and over every one of knowledge is the All Knowledgeable.

Here again we have a sample that with a proof, we don't need 4 testimonies.

Peace

pixelrow

"Zina is not adultery.
both my heart and my brain tell me that. "

Your heart and mind have got nothing to do with it. You are unqualified to know what the word means. . . it simply being misled - not "heart or mind". . . what kind of nonsense is that?

So you have been impressed with Westernism that you come back and change your religion - rather than yourself.

huruf