I think I've cracked it...... kind of
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Peace Family,
Sorry to spoil the party, but the question as to why God creates does not have
an answer, only speculation as to why.We did not create the heavens and the earth, and everything between them
just for amusement.pr
Ironically Hawk99 had you scrolled down a verse or two you would have found God declaring in explicit clear and unconfusable terms the exact reason He created the universe
Had We wished to make a diversion, We would have made it from before Ourselves by no means would We do (it).
Nay! We cast the truth against the falsehood, so that it breaks its head, and lo! it vanishes; and woe to you for what you describe;So essentially
- No the universe is not created for a joke or a play or boredom
- If God wanted to joke or play around or be bored then He would do this in his own mind, but God is entirely free of need of all of these things
- So if the universe is not created for this, then what is it for? It is so that we can shine Truth (Light, information, data, observation, REALITY) on falsehood (indeterminacy/Void, uncertainty, probability)
Now I notice a very strong trend amongst all Muslims of ignoring 2118. It seems almost meaningless or something? Why would 2118 matter to you. It sounds vague, right?
WRONG. If you have any formal training in mathematics or physics then 2118 stands very very clear as to what is going on. Well as long as we ignore 2118 we can fluff around and still bullshit each other. We can say "well I don't really have any idea why the universe is here" and we can give weight to the sensation of purposelessness that arises from al-satan.
When really, 2118 is the singular plain decisive statement - humans, THIS and THIS FIRST OF ALL is why I created you.
Indeed if you follow the evolution of the universe, we observe it increases in complexity with time. It evolves. When it originated, it was simple. But each instance of time, everything splits into pairs and one of the pairs is given preference to the other. This is a process known as Symmetry Breaking, a very well studied topic in modern physics. And by continuously preferring one part of a pair to the other, and repeatedly applying this choice-factor, we can carve out creatures, trees, stars, all sorts. It becomes a matter of what we wish the universe to look like.
But then peer a bit deeper and you will SEE what is going on.
Let's say I'm forming a human in the womb. Let's say I've decided on everything but a single DNA switch. This last switch decides, say, if our child has dark hair or light hair. What do we do? We then scan through the ENTIRE future set of possibilities for either pair.
Then which is most pleasing and proving of God's magnificent attributes? After all, there can only be one real state of affairs. So either the dark haired or the light haired soul cannot truly exist, because one of them would not be consistent with God-ness. God-ness, is Light, it's Reality, it's Truth. It's Energy, Knowledge, Bliss, Consciousness. Many names. But one fundamentally known essence, intimately known essence.
It is a matter of choosing Yes/No, 0/1. Along three axes/dimensions, which creates a magnificent ever-expanding vector space (the universe), which is then compared against itself to create the next iteration, moment by moment; that process itself being the fourth axis (time).
God does not speculate. God lays down the answers. Yet man is argumentative and seeking to run headlong into the fog of fluffy debate about the ineffable, when the answer is laid clearly before him, should he open his eyes and read the clear words presented by the Creator who is in no mind to confuse his creation.
But the truth is you will not find the answer in fluffy feel good questions. The answer has long been found, known and explored in the world of mathematical geometry where the nature/operation of God (sunattullah) is indisputably known and revealed in its entirety.
I am not confused. Yes, I know EXACTLY why I am here. God has told me PRECISELY why this universe exists. And I see the supreme Wisdom. I have no questions. I do not believe the shaitans who say the answers cannot be known. I know that they are heedless and confused beyond comprehension and what good is it to seek light from al-kafirun when they HAVE NO LIGHT? Please comprehend this. Atheists can put up many questions which appear tough but a proper look will always reveal the fallacious tricks, the kind of fallacious tricks a magician employs to create the appearance of an inconsistency or a flaw in the reality of the Supremely PERFECT.
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Peace everyone,
I agree with some of what IAMOP has to say and s/he makes some very good points even if I wouldn't choose that style of debate and disagree with that.
But in trying to look at this from different angles, as I think in general it can be helpful to do so at times - like a fresh take on it, and then pondering further to find the conclusion etc -, verse 2118 could refer to obliterating all falsehood such as the falsehood that God swt created the heavens and earth playfully and then following this up by oblierating falsehood by stating the truth of the matter and the nature of existence in verse 2119. In 2119 it states the truth that everything belongs to Allah swt, the Creator and Originator and that He has not partner in this, there is no other creator alongside Him and that the righteous praise Him as they understand this is acknowledging and embracing the Truth - that God swt is worthy of such praise.
Then verse 2121-22 would continue in terms of addressing such falsehood and presenting the fact of the matter that if there were any other gods, creation would end up in ruin.
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Ironically Hawk99 had you scrolled down a verse or two you would have found God declaring in explicit clear and unconfusable terms the exact reason He created the universe
Had We wished to make a diversion, We would have made it from before Ourselves by no means would We do (it).
Nay! We cast the truth against the falsehood, so that it breaks its head, and lo! it vanishes; and woe to you for what you describe;So essentially
- No the universe is not created for a joke or a play or boredom
- If God wanted to joke or play around or be bored then He would do this in his own mind, but God is entirely free of need of all of these things
- So if the universe is not created for this, then what is it for? It is so that we can shine Truth (Light, information, data, observation, REALITY) on falsehood (indeterminacy/Void, uncertainty, probability)
Now I notice a very strong trend amongst all Muslims of ignoring 2118. It seems almost meaningless or something? Why would 2118 matter to you. It sounds vague, right?
WRONG. If you have any formal training in mathematics or physics then 2118 stands very very clear as to what is going on. Well as long as we ignore 2118 we can fluff around and still bullshit each other. We can say "well I don't really have any idea why the universe is here" and we can give weight to the sensation of purposelessness that arises from al-satan.
When really, 2118 is the singular plain decisive statement - humans, THIS and THIS FIRST OF ALL is why I created you.
Indeed if you follow the evolution of the universe, we observe it increases in complexity with time. It evolves. When it originated, it was simple. But each instance of time, everything splits into pairs and one of the pairs is given preference to the other. This is a process known as Symmetry Breaking, a very well studied topic in modern physics. And by continuously preferring one part of a pair to the other, and repeatedly applying this choice-factor, we can carve out creatures, trees, stars, all sorts. It becomes a matter of what we wish the universe to look like.
But then peer a bit deeper and you will SEE what is going on.
Let's say I'm forming a human in the womb. Let's say I've decided on everything but a single DNA switch. This last switch decides, say, if our child has dark hair or light hair. What do we do? We then scan through the ENTIRE future set of possibilities for either pair.
Then which is most pleasing and proving of God's magnificent attributes? After all, there can only be one real state of affairs. So either the dark haired or the light haired soul cannot truly exist, because one of them would not be consistent with God-ness. God-ness, is Light, it's Reality, it's Truth. It's Energy, Knowledge, Bliss, Consciousness. Many names. But one fundamentally known essence, intimately known essence.
It is a matter of choosing Yes/No, 0/1. Along three axes/dimensions, which creates a magnificent ever-expanding vector space (the universe), which is then compared against itself to create the next iteration, moment by moment; that process itself being the fourth axis (time).
God does not speculate. God lays down the answers. Yet man is argumentative and seeking to run headlong into the fog of fluffy debate about the ineffable, when the answer is laid clearly before him, should he open his eyes and read the clear words presented by the Creator who is in no mind to confuse his creation.
But the truth is you will not find the answer in fluffy feel good questions. The answer has long been found, known and explored in the world of mathematical geometry where the nature/operation of God (sunattullah) is indisputably known and revealed in its entirety.
I am not confused. Yes, I know EXACTLY why I am here. God has told me PRECISELY why this universe exists. And I see the supreme Wisdom. I have no questions. I do not believe the shaitans who say the answers cannot be known. I know that they are heedless and confused beyond comprehension and what good is it to seek light from al-kafirun when they HAVE NO LIGHT? Please comprehend this. Atheists can put up many questions which appear tough but a proper look will always reveal the fallacious tricks, the kind of fallacious tricks a magician employs to create the appearance of an inconsistency or a flaw in the reality of the Supremely PERFECT.
I would love to obtain and maintain that certainty and clarity as well...
Thank you
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Peace GODsubmitter,
Do you mean you are not certain?
May God bless you into certainty
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GodSubmitter
I did not choose to be free of doubts of my own accord, I prayed earnestly to God and one day He hit me with a tonne of bricks, ripped my reality into shreds in front of me, made a mark on my skin and ever since then I have been free of doubt and irreversibly so; my brain is actually physically wired in such a way that doubt cannot arise, and believe me I have tried . Meditate and meditate often and you too shall reach such an understanding if God so pleases. Nobody can guide themselves or free themselves of doubt or anything, it is purely a decision by God. Read Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki
Peace everyone,
I agree with some of what IAMOP has to say and s/he makes some very good points even if I wouldn't choose that style of debate and disagree with that.
But in trying to look at this from different angles, as I think in general it can be helpful to do so at times - like a fresh take on it, and then pondering further to find the conclusion etc -, verse 2118 could refer to obliterating all falsehood such as the falsehood that God swt created the heavens and earth playfully and then following this up by oblierating falsehood by stating the truth of the matter and the nature of existence in verse 2119. In 2119 it states the truth that everything belongs to Allah swt, the Creator and Originator and that He has not partner in this, there is no other creator alongside Him and that the righteous praise Him as they understand this is acknowledging and embracing the Truth - that God swt is worthy of such praise.
Then verse 2121-22 would continue in terms of addressing such falsehood and presenting the fact of the matter that if there were any other gods, creation would end up in ruin.
Peace
In order to take this branch of understanding you have to ignore
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Every single verse which says "do they not consider that we created the heavens and Earth with TRUTH, JUSTICE, etc" there are many of these verses
What is TRUTH? At its fundamental level, it is INFORMATION. Which all science is pointing to. So when it says "we shall show them our signs in the heavens and in themselves", did you think this verse is some kind of joke or fiction? Do you think God is stupid and only knows what we know, and looks upon the universe as a story of "I, my parents, who did who to what"? This is not Eastenders, my friend. Ironically, the same fallacy the verse rejects, is what you affirm if only you would peer deep enough into your reasoning and your desire to reject this clear explanation -
Every single verse which points to the DESIGN of the universe, ALWAYS scientifically, and asks you to comprehend it and understand it, and ONLY THEN shall you see God, the Light of the heavens and Earth
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That God says the worst of the creatures are those who select wilful ignorance, who choose stupidity... why does it matter if a creature is stupid? If everything belongs to God and there is no imperative issue, then what's the problem with stupidity in the first place? Let's consider what stupidity is. Stupid, is the inability to distinguish truth from falsehood
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The fact that we are under trial, why are we under trial by an all-knowing God who has no need to trial something if He knows all?
This nuance you will understand in verses such as -
And certainly the Shaitan found true his conjecture concerning them, so they follow him, except a party of the believers.
And he has no authority over them, but that We may distinguish him who believes in the hereafter from him who is in doubt concerning it; and your Lord is the Preserver of all thingsAllah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messengers (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His messengers And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure.
Over and over and over again in the quran we understand that we are on Earth because of the conjecture of the Shaitan
(Iblis) said "Then, by Thy power, I will put them all in the wrong,-"Except Thy Servants amongst them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
Mathematically speaking, let there be a SET of entities called "Right hand" and a SET of entities called "Hell beings", of which the properties of the set are defined within the quran, e.g. that right handers do good and purify themselves.
Of N billion human beings, which beings shall belong in the set R and which in the set H?
Satan's hypothesis All except the purified
Notice, even as Satan is a kafir, he makes a truthful statement, his conjecture is intrinsically correct as only the purified shall be helped! His statement is inherently meaningless as set R is defined by pure people inhabiting it in the first place. But also, he says "all of them", he does not say "the purified ones will be OK", he says "all BUT the purified" meaning "I shall try to fuck them all over and only those you choose, they will succeed" and it is for this nuance, that we must face trial. Who are the "all BUT the purified"?How do you prove this conjecture/hypothesis?
Answer temporary life on Earth!Remember... life is not really temporary! Real life is eternal, this what you are experiencing is not actually life but purely a trial. The true nature of Life, is eternal Being which cannot be muted or ceased.
We will pass through this stage at the precise fine point where the conjecture of the Shaitan is finally proven/disproven for each and eery soul. But we are here on Earth, for now, expressedly to PROVE/DISPROVE a single statement -
<before human being is in womb>
I, (your name here), hereby declare that I am a being who surrenders exclusively to the Light of the Heavens and Earth
<human being is born into life>
<human being dies>OPEN(Clear Record of All Things In Universe)
COMPARE (Statement_Being20935029023095, Record_20935029023095)
If this statement => TRUE, aka binary 1, then SEND(Being)=> Heaven
If statement => FALSE, aka binary 0, then SEND(Being) => sun > elektro voodooDo you know how God's scales of justice work? Look no further than Game Theory! If you know what a utility function is, then all of this transpires of its own accord! Knowledge is power, folks.
To summarise
Infinite number of ways to be unjust, to have an unjust state of affairs, for life to be inherently unjust because of a state of affairs; INFINITE number of possible false Gods, false Al-Haqq, false Nur
VS
ONE way alone for it to be Just and Perfect, Sunnatullah, Tao, the Natural WayHow to distinguish? Answer Prove what is true, prove what is false.
Now, with this knowledge, do you think that those who murder, lie, cheat, steal, etc, do you think these persons are going to get away with it? rotfl I know the answer is no, because a square has four sides and a triangle has three. Now divorce geometry, physics, and mathematics from the purpose of the universe and GOOD LUCK ever finding justice here! When you understand the intimate relation between "triangles have three sides" and "I need to feed my mother before she dies", only then will you begin to comprehend the true majesty of God.
Simple. Do not complicate the obvious. Thank you. And peace be upon you )
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Thank you IAMOP
peace
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Salam,
One of Allah's attributes is that He is "All Encompassing". Could this not allude to that prior to creation He was also All Encompassing? The fact that Allah exists prior to the initiation of creation does not mean nothing else existed. It means that Allah exists and encompassed all things (space, time, etc...) even before creation.
Anyways, it is interesting to philosophize these points, however, my true opinion is that we will/can never truly understand Allah or His Will, only submit to it.