More salat and ra'kat discussion
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Peace brother,
I still observe a modified version of the old traditional prayer, of course without salams and all that to Muhammad and his family. Because I still lack convincing proof of any other prayer schedule I still observe dawn, noon, afternoon, evening and night prayers. Sometimes I fit a morning prayer in the schedule too, making the total 6 in a day. The night prayer I observe right before I go to sleep and not directly after it is completely dark as many do, and I do not believe you can observe it too late.
I am not very strict with timings although not slack either. But I believe you can observe a prayer a quarter early or so with no problem. How could simple families in the past know the exact minutes on prayers anyway, it is not all that important if you but have the right intention. Sometimes I have observed an afternoon prayer 2 hours early because I had no opportunity to do it later. Only thing I would not do is to pray two prayers in a row because I consider it an insult to God.
Before I begin I say this "My Lord or , I have the intention to observe my with X prostrations, seeking your nearness and guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers. I submit to your will. But any custom phrase would actually do.
My prayer is the same as traditional salat except some changes as stated below.
Lately I have begun to pray with arms stretched upwards in a 45 degree angle because it feels like the force of energy flows soothingly nice in me then. I replaced the traditional "Allahu Akhbar" with salam to God using His different names, for example, al-kabir. In fear of God I still observe the traditional rakah pattern as I have no alternative yet and I have not been enlightened by the Lord.
I still hesitantly pray in the direction of the black cube in Mecca which had been transformed into an idol for something other than God, but in lack of new instructions I keep this direction although not 100% precise. (I learned after reading a bit that the cube in Mecca has not always been like that. It is a later addition/change. It did not even use to be cubic!).
I recite "Our Lord in Heaven" prayer which came with Jesus once during my prayer (instead of Father I have changed this into Lord), although I still primarily recite first chapter of Quran in every rakah, and only the Jesus supplication in one. As stated earlier, I say salam to God every time I would have said allahu akhbar in traditional Salat.
At the end of prayer (after shahada) I raise hands three times with glorifying words of God. I do this because of a verse in the Bible (which I unfortunately do not know number of at the time). Probably optional, but I feel like doing it.
When done with the above glorification of God, which I rather call it than ritual, I have free talk with God where I praise, beg, ask questions or simply just have a monolog (unfortunately not had any dialog yet but God has commucated through inspiration quite heavily lately). After the above talk I enter a meditative state where I try to focus on the deep communion with God without words and I meditate upon things I reserved for this activity. All in all the prayer takes 30 to 60 minutes when I do night prayer, but maybe 20 minutes during off-peak hours and 5-10 minutes when I pray during daytime.
Apart from that I do not forget God during longer periods, I keep Him in my memory at all times. If there is a crossroads in my life God is always the first one I think about and His words "echo" in my head. I put aside maybe 1-3 hours per day studying religion at my computer, working on my religious project concerning God and simply delve into philosophies revolving God.
And as you may have guessed, I spend some time here attempting to spread some good words, for those who appreciate my presence. Well, I am here to learn too, you have taught me a lot, oh brothers and sisters.
Sorry, the last paragraphs were maybe slightly off-topic though I think of them as included in the glorification and commemoration of God. Hope I did not pester anyone with my words. And I apologize for the many words, it seems I am a man who cannot stop typing.
God bless you
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... I replaced the traditional "Allahu Akhbar" with salam to God...
... I recite "Our Lord in Heaven" prayer...The highlights above are from me.
Dear Man of Faith,
You need to make two very important corrections to the content of your salaah.
1st you must NEVER say "Salaam to GOD", because GOD, the Almighty, is the absolute fountain and source of SALAAM/PEACE. We are the ones who must ALWAYS beg of His PEACE/SALAAM to be bestowed on us. Actually one of GOD?s numerous names is SALAAM. See verse 5923.
In my opinion saying ?Salaam to GOD? is a blasphemous expression.
2nd You must NOT say, "Our Lord in Heaven", because GOD, the Almighty, is GOD, both in Heaven and in Earth. See verse 4384.
Peace,
Khalil -
For myself I only find salat-ul Fajr, salat-ul Isha, and salat-ul Wusta specifically mentioned in the Qur'an. There is a fair amount of conjecture that salat-ul Wusta is another reference to salat-ul Juma and not a separate prayer time. On the other hand I don't think there is anything wrong with doing salat 5 times a day if possible. I also don't think there is a problem with doing salat in the "tradtional" fashion if some of the wording is altered or removed to avoid shirk (of course, I don't have a problem with alternative views of salat either). So for me, if I can find justification in the Qur'an for at least 2 daily prayers (morning and evening) as well as Friday Juma as a minimal requirement, then it is even better for me to do 3 daily and even better than that to do 5 daily.
The same with ra'kats (if one views or does salat in the more "traditional" manner)... I'm partial to doing at least 2 ra'kats for each salat which is consistent with what is fard for Juma. And I see nothing wrong with doing more ra'kats so if someone wants to do 5 salat per day with 2-4-4-3-4 in terms of ra'kat then that's great too.
What say you?
Salaam,
Even if I do not agree with some things about how you do sallaat I think it is the correct way for you. I think everyone has to do the sallaat as he feels it should be BUT always upgrading when someone learns more. From experience I learned that the more I learn the easier the sallaat becomes in every sort of way. When I was a sunni I had much trouble with doing sallaat but now that I do it as how Allah teaches me it is a joy.
Just some things to ponder on
RED highlited above
2238 Maintain alssalawati and alssalati alwusta ; and stand for God dutifully.2458 O you who believe, let those who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before salati alfajri , and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after salati al3ishai . These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
You see in 2238 ssalati has an "al" while the sallaats mentioned in 2458 don't have this "al".
BLUE highlited above
Jumu3a does not mean friday but "gathering". It is written in the same style as salati al3ishai or salati alfajri
yawmi aljumuAAati so it can never mean the name of a day.Salaam,
Bender -
The highlights above are from me.
Dear Man of Faith,
You need to make two very important corrections to the content of your salaah.
1st you must NEVER say "Salaam to GOD", because GOD, the Almighty, is the absolute fountain and source of SALAAM/PEACE. We are the ones who must ALWAYS beg of His PEACE/SALAAM to be bestowed on us. Actually one of GOD?s numerous names is SALAAM. See verse 5923.
In my opinion saying ?Salaam to GOD? is a blasphemous expression.
2nd You must NOT say, "Our Lord in Heaven", because GOD, the Almighty, is GOD, both in Heaven and in Earth. See verse 4384.
Peace,
KhalilSalaamun alayka,
I agree handshake
salaam,
Bender -
I do three salatFajr(morning), wustha (middle) and Esya (dusk).
My other salatTahhajud (1/3 night), Janazah salat (funeral prayer) and Jumu'ah prayer (I don't see it as obligatory).For Jumu'ah prayer, I agree with @Bender, if word jumu'ah cannot be translated to Roman friday, but translated to gathering salat and the gathering can be implemented in another day, not only friday.
I simply standing with recite Al Fatehah then another recitation for glorifying Him.
Then bowing then prostating then sit with saying"Ya Allah, Ar Rahmaan" and another Allah's name.This is based from chapter 17110.After sit, I prostating again with recite sentences from chapter 17111.
How long I salat, is depending on my mouth's strength to saying Allah's name, if my mouth is tired, so I will end my salat.
I didn't recognize raka'at, sice it's not exist in Quran, I simply do salat in one rakaat.You can do 4,3,6 rakaat whatever you want. -
Peace,
I will have to look it up about salaam to God. I could not imagine that greeting God with salaam would be as bad as "blasphemous". God says "Peace!" is our greeting, so why not allowed to greet Himself with it? I use Salam plus His powerful attributes. But since you so nicely warned me I will look it up and research on it in Quran.
Regarding the prayer "Our Lord in Heaven" with 7 verses; this prayer does not imply that God is limited to Heaven. However, even Quran tells God resides somewhere else. I believe this prayer to actually have been coming down with Jesus and that is why I use it. I see nothing blasphemous in it and it actually suits the Muslim ways. Have you even read the prayer once?
I changed Father to Lord because I think the word Father is a poor translation of the original word Jesus uttered. I am sure Jesus called for the Lord when it says Father in the New Testament. I will continue to use this prayer in my worship of God, it is a nice supplication.
God bless you
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Peace again,
If you have a better translation than this on 3344 I may change my mind about salam to God "Their greeting the day they meet Him is "Salaam" and He has prepared for them a generous recompense".
Of course you can say salaam to God as He is as-salaam himself, it would be as uttering His name. In this case I greet him with it and Quran does not seem to dislike the behavior. I love God, can I not wish my Master peace as He wished me peace?
Hope you understand me and if you do not want to wish God peace then that is up to you. I have my ways and you may have yours.
God bless you
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Peace,
I will have to look it up about salaam to God. I could not imagine that greeting God with salaam would be as bad as "blasphemous". God says "Peace!" is our greeting, so why not allowed to greet Himself with it? I use Salam plus His powerful attributes. But since you so nicely warned me I will look it up and research on it in Quran.
Salaamun alayka,
imo it's not blasphemous for you because you have different understanding on the words with your best intentions.
Regarding the prayer "Our Lord in Heaven" with 7 verses; this prayer does not imply that God is limited to Heaven. However, even Quran tells God resides somewhere else. I believe this prayer to actually have been coming down with Jesus and that is why I use it. I see nothing blasphemous in it and it actually suits the Muslim ways. Have you even read the prayer once?
RED God does not have a residence &
The verse kgwithnob mentioned (4384) does not say that Allah resides in the heaven and the earth nope
It says He is in the heaven God and in the earth God, it does not mean that he lives there nopeSalaam,
Bender -
Peace again,
If you have a better translation than this on 3344 I may change my mind about salam to God "Their greeting the day they meet Him is "Salaam" and He has prepared for them a generous recompense".
Of course you can say salaam to God as He is as-salaam himself, it would be as uttering His name. In this case I greet him with it and Quran does not seem to dislike the behavior. I love God, can I not wish my Master peace as He wished me peace?
Hope you understand me and if you do not want to wish God peace then that is up to you. I have my ways and you may have yours.
God bless you
Salaamun alayka,
RED it does not say "Their greeting TO HIM the day they meet Him is "Salaam" ", But THEIR GREETING.
Besides this, I think "greeting" is not the best translation, check for example 2575
2575 These will be rewarded with a dwelling for what they have been patient for, and they will find in it tahiyyatan AND salaman.Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Bender,
Anyway, the meaning with Lord in Heaven is not to mean he is confined there and has no might over Earth, it is just a saying. I usually see Heaven as the whole Universe, including Earth. I am sure Jesus never had any polytheistic mindset.
I am still certain that God is present here through the Holy Spirit mainly and reside in His own place. In some verse in Quran it says something like "Do they wait until God comes with His angels?". I see the Holy Spirit as the energy of God, so He sure is present here in ways and can control everything.
Even if the verse I posted did not mean to specifically say salam to God I doubt it is blasphemous to say hello to my maker while I mention his powerful attributes.
Ah well, I do as I can to serve my Lord.
God bless you
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Peace Bender,
Anyway, the meaning with Lord in Heaven is not to mean he is confined there and has no might over Earth, it is just a saying. I usually see Heaven as the whole Universe, including Earth. I am sure Jesus never had any polytheistic mindset.
I am still certain that God is present here through the Holy Spirit mainly and reside in His own place. In some verse in Quran it says something like "Do they wait until God comes with His angels?". I see the Holy Spirit as the energy of God, so He sure is present here in ways and can control everything.
Even if the verse I posted did not mean to specifically say salam to God I doubt it is blasphemous to say hello to my maker while I mention his powerful attributes.
Ah well, I do as I can to serve my Lord.
God bless you
Salaamun alayka MoF,
I already understood that you meant something like "hi" with "salaam".
But in Quranic arabic it has different meaning. for example "salaamun alayka" means something like "peace be upon you".
It is kind of weird to say something like that to Allah.REDs
If ones reads them then it reads like a personification of God.
Remember verses like this
2559 The One who has created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days, then He settled upon the Throne. The Almighty; so ask Him for He is Expert.
Before He created the heavens and the earth and what is between them where was He?
I think it is better to say something like "Lord of Heaven" instead of "Lord in Heaven"Salaam,
Bender -
Please share to me @Man of Faith, how you can salat for long time?What kind of your salat?meditation or something?what do you recite during that minutes?
It' nothing.But your action remind me when I still follow a shirk martial arts 5 years ago.The senior gave me a paper with some du'as (which quoted from Quran n Hadith) written on it.Then after salat, I must recite that du'as in thousand time and must finished it in one day, of course, my salat can be done in one hour, two hours.I must do this for three days, then the senior claimed that I will get new "power".
rotfl
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...I could not imagine that greeting God with salaam would be as bad as "blasphemous". God says "Peace!" is our greeting, so why not allowed to greet Himself with it?...
The highlight above is from me.
Dear Man of Faith,
I am NOT questioning your faith or your intentions at all. I'm just expressing my opinion when deemed necessary, as the following also intended to mean just the same.
Regarding the SALAAM issue; we use it to whish each other PEACE and tranquility when we meet, and the reason is that we as weak and vulnerable earthly creatures are always prone to calamities and disturbances of this short worldly life. On the other hand GOD, the Almighty, is the Supreme, the Eternal, and Supernatural, away from all disturbances and calamities. He is the absolute and infinite PEACE/SALAAM. We are the ones in need of His peace at all times, and we better always beg of him to bestow on us from His Peace if He wills.
...Regarding the prayer "Our Lord in Heaven" with 7 verses; this prayer does not imply that God is limited to Heaven. However, even Quran tells God resides somewhere else....
Please let us know where in The Qur'aan GOD, swt, says He resides "somewhere else", as you claimed above.
Allaah, swt, is INFINITE in size. He does not fit in anything or anywhere. He is the container for ALL things. The Old testament, in Isaiah 661 we read Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool where is the house that ye build unto me, and where is the place of my rest? The Qur?aan in 2255 puts it in a better and more correct context ? His Kursi/FOOTSTOOL extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. This verse informs us that, the whole creation which consists of the HEAVENS and the Earth is hardly as big as His footstool which is very tiny compared to His THRONE/?ARSH/KINGDOM. In other words, we cannot limit the existence of GOD, the Almighty, to any particular or certain place or time. He is the Omnipresent, meaning, He is present everywhere, be subatomic or intergalactic, at all times.
If you have a better translation than this on 3344 I may change my mind about salam to God
About 3344;
Their saying of ?Hi?/TAHIYAH/GREETINGS is going to be ?SALAAM?/PEACE the day they?ll meet Him and He has prepared for them a noble reward.
The word ?TAHIYAH? in Arabic language in a literal sense means ?to live on?/continue living, but in the Hereafter we are not going to be mortal, so instead of saying ?Hi/TAHIYA? we will greet each other by saying ?PEACE?.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Bender, Kgwithnob
I agree that salam to God was not so thought through, I should have not rushed into a change in words. I only did it during two days after I had revised my own individual prayer. I am choosing something else now to say which does not seem weird, like the first thing they say in 3344 about glorifying God.
However, I will keep thinking about the salam to God issue because it felt interesting. I have read about blessings to the Lord, but I will read up on it more in depth before I make any more utterances.
But I will keep reciting the Jesus prayer because I think it was a true prayer and not an invention. Lord of Heaven might be better though, I think the original translation might be flawed. It is like a supplication (dua) for me. If you have read these 7 verses you will realize there is nothing wrong with it.
Earthdom The actual prayer sequence is over after about 10 minutes. After that I have free speech and meditation which sums up to 30 to 60 minutes, but I may have been exaggerating the duration. It seldom is more than 20 to 40 minutes although it occasionally reaches an hour.
God bless the three of you
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Peace Bender, Kgwithnob
But I will keep reciting the Jesus prayer because I think it was a true prayer and not an invention. Lord of Heaven might be better though, I think the original translation might be flawed. It is like a supplication (dua) for me. If you have read these 7 verses you will realize there is nothing wrong with it.
God bless the three of you
Salaamun alayka,
I went to a Christian elementary school when I was young. We did the prayer every morning and afternoon. From what I remember, it looks like a translation of the first chapter of The Quran which evolved by time (I mean the translation).
Salaam and may Allah bless you 2,
Bender -
Peace Bender,
I do not agree. The contents of this prayer is different from chapter 1 of Quran, but it sounds more like a supplication than the backbone of a prayer. I like that it has seven verses though since I admire this number
It talks mainly about forgiving others that the Lord may forgive us and other islamic main points which is not strange since Jesus was a muslim.
I find it suiting my muslim life and that is why I use the verses and it is not because I still live a Christian life. Also, I never believed in Jesus divinity or the trinity. You have to excuse me, brother, I use the Bible for inspiration sometimes.
God bless you
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peace all,
In my view, with regard to number of salat or even rakat, there is no issue if
- one is to the best of their knowledge/effort/research doing what they think is right
- they are sincere in this
- they continue to seek knowledge etc
Personally, I don't see how anyone can reasonably conclude from reading Quran that a salat has "rakat" units and there is a salat called "wusta" but that's just me.
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I should point out that fulfilling the three criteria above is perhaps not as easy as one might think, for example in my view being "sincere" I think it is common for Muslims to have/do a certain act/belief/practice as part of their religion but if one were to ask them how much time/effort have you spent determining that to be a true/evidenced/accurate act/belief/practice very few would actually say they have spent significant time on it or given this their best effort.
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Peace,
There appears to be five salats
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605189.msg324894#msg324894
I consider that post to be poor. It simply repeats the same errors as repeated many times before. By far the best discussions on salat can be found here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0To be honest I am surprised anyone reads that post you linked to and considers it good UNLESS they believe in code 19, as they seem to readily take numerology as "good" evidence.
