Masjidul Haram - Your own Houses !

[unknownuser]

Peace be upon you QAlone,

I have always believed that Wisdom corresponds with understanding the goal and reason for humanity, and since the quran elaborates on these factors of Wisdom, I tend to associate the quran with Wisdom.

Yes I agree, and I add that it is the final meaning that is intended from the God's message delivered to us in this reading(quran). It comes to us from within, after we aquire te correct knowledge.

With this understanding(Wisdom) we can utilize the knowledge contained in the world and quran/scripture and direct them to the correct path(Islam) and be of those who are considered wise.

I agree

In other words, utilize worldly knowledge with "common sense", which in this case, common sense corresponds to the knowledge of Wisdom and Wisdom corresponds to the understanding/philosophy of humanity, which is of course Islam/quran/the God's revelations.

Thats my position with regard to Widom at this point, what do you think?

I don't know if I would phrase it as "COMMON" sense D , but I agree with the "sprirt" of your response. D

[unknownuser]

Peace be upon you Doc,

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Peace be upon you Doc,
I disagree 100%. This reading(quran) was descended in Arabic.

idol, Arabic happens to be the language of the people, the people whom allah chose in the world for they were/are the people most astray even today.

It was sent in Arabic to a people that needed a messenger. The message is always sent to those who need it, in whatever language they speak.

It is just another human language having all the principles of a language such as grammar, alphabet, vocabulary etc. So what makes the difference while you read is whether you are going to apply your soul(wisdom) to the mind(knowledge) or not. Soul is the criterion/principle for realizing The Book.

What is the Arabic word for "soul" and what is the word for "mind". Please answer these questions for me so I can follow you, right now I am not following.

What you write below are about the language of humans not that of God; for you have only interest in the application of your worldly language(knowledge); if only you have ruled over this, the criterion(wisdom) would have emerged elevating the meaning to the higher standards.

What makes you say that I only have interest in application of worldy knowledge? Where do you get the information to make all these statements about me that you continue to make that I have NEVER said?

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Yes, I have already told you that knwldge and wisdom are different, but knowledge is the foundation of wisdom.

By saying so do u mean to say mind is the foundation of soul?

I don't even know what you mean by soul.

No. Mind shall use the Soul for its own Guidance. Knowledge shall surrender in total submission to the Soul, the RUH of Allah.

Okay, so you translate "ruh" as soul. I translate "ruh" as energy, or divine energy(ruh ul qudus). Yes, the Divine enegy from the God should CONTROL the mind, I agree to that, but the MIND must aquire knowledge so that it can KNOW how to submit to the Divine energy. I use the example again of riding a bike, you must learn the knowledge of how to steer, balance, lean with the turn, etc. After repitition, the RUH takes over, and all of these seemingly seperate aspects of riding the bike comes together, and know you can do tricks without even "thinking".

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In THIS world that we live in, we NEED knowledge to get to Wisdom. You seem to be forgetting your portion of "this world".

Wisdom helps your survival despite your knowledge. For example you learn to drive the car; learn to accelerate; learn to stop the car etc., It is all knowledge. But you escape an accident in split seconds by application of sudden brakes, at hair-thin breadth. That is Wisdom unknown to you and none can teach you this. Knowledge cannot give you Wisdom, for it is as good as dead material.

If you never recieved KNOWledge that you must press the brake to stop the car, the WISDOM would not have stopped the car for you.

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When I speak of the "ALL", I am saying that the God is ALL THINGS both seen and unseen.

Please idol, hear me if I am clearly hearing what you say ' God is both physical and mystical ? And He is a THING and He is visible too; to the naked eye and you have seen HIM, through your physical nature!?'

No, We can only see the creation that manifest from Him. We can never see the God because we can never see the unseen. There will always be the overwhelming portion of the God that is UNSEEN.

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When I say 'Source which is unknowable', that means that the SOURCE of the SEEN part comes from the UNSEEN part.

Exactly correct! Source of knowledge(SEEN part) comes from the Wisdom(the UNSEEN part). But you lookat your own quote below and see how you contradict the above quote of yours!

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Knowledge comes from the seen part, Wisdom from the unseen part.

Is it contradiction ? If not, confusion ?

Neither, let me elaborate. EVERYTHING manifest from the Unseen to the Seen. The position of the Human Being starts at the SEEN. The Goal is to realize its UNSEEN nature, its DIVINITY because of the RUH of the God that brings the "dead earth" to life. So from THIS POSITION, we must start to work backwards. We have to aquire knowledge so that we can intuit wisdom. Please tell me if you still see contradiction.