Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
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Peace tigress,
I am sorry you feel this way. I can see my belief is incompatible with yours since in my system God is always near and will listen to our prayers. Also I can understand it is easy to fall to this conclusion if one gives up too fast instead of continuing with steadfastness and patience. And thus God will not offer His weighty Message that He is with you.
My thread was intended to help people see that we need to build up a certain level of Nearness before we will see results in our relationship to God. Our Creator first tests our intelligence and test us in many other ways such as through patience and steadfastness. This does not say that God does not do anything prior to this, but then we have to be perceptive and keep an open mind.
As my thread tries to teach; when we have Nearness we will pretty much automatically also have Guidance. Greater Nearness may mean that God will show signs in our daily lives, often small and subtle, but the optimist will surely see them.
When we are gaining the next level, Knowledge and Wisdom, the previous part of the chain will have become strengthened, and I am sure most of those blessed with this level of awareness will see miracles pretty much on a daily basis.
Not to mention when you reach the third category, Peace and Prosperity, as then you will see a boost in provisions and those good things in life.
God bless you
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Peace tigress,
I am sorry you feel this way. I can see my belief is incompatible with yours since in my system God is always near and will listen to our prayers. Also I can understand it is easy to fall to this conclusion if one gives up too fast instead of continuing with steadfastness and patience. And thus God will not offer His weighty Message that He is with you.
My thread was intended to help people see that we need to build up a certain level of Nearness before we will see results in our relationship to God. Our Creator first tests our intelligence and test us in many other ways such as through patience and steadfastness. This does not say that God does not do anything prior to this, but then we have to be perceptive and keep an open mind.
As my thread tries to teach; when we have Nearness we will pretty much automatically also have Guidance. Greater Nearness may mean that God will show signs in our daily lives, often small and subtle, but the optimist will surely see them.
When we are gaining the next level, Knowledge and Wisdom, the previous part of the chain will have become strengthened, and I am sure most of those blessed with this level of awareness will see miracles pretty much on a daily basis.
Not to mention when you reach the third category, Peace and Prosperity, as then you will see a boost in provisions and those good things in life.
God bless you
Yes I agree with you --God does hear and see everything there is no question on that. I can't say that our beliefs are incompatible, I am just trying to know what is possible and what is not. I know patience is important but at some point there is diminishing returns. Either something is going to happen or it is not; and no amount of faith or patience is going to change something that is not in written in Gods book IMO.
Thanks for taking time to make this thread and I will continue to read -
so the highlighted areas are what I do not understand. Those ayats essentially mean that it is pointless to pray for other people (ie they are doing something wrong, or they feel a certain way about an issue and therefore behave in a certain way etc...) because God will not change their outlook or perspective or heart without them acknowledging the desire to change?? And on the same note, since everything is pre-planned, what is the point in praying for things in your life (not material things but situations) when they are already destined to happen a certain way?
(i.e someone develops terminal cancer..what is the point in praying for a recovery or healing if they are going to die anyway?Peace Tigress,
Thanks for reading my post.
Please read surah 18/60-82
There are layers of reality that we are not privy to, not even Moses. I think surah
18 60/82 is a beginning in our quest to understand how prayer fits into our reality.God Bless
peace
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where? Thanks.
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No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence That is truly easy for Allah
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No affliction comes about but by Allah's permission; and whoever believes in Allah, He guides aright his heart; and Allah is Cognizant of all things.
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And people are naught but a single nation, so they disagree; and had not a word already gone forth from your Lord, the matter would have certainly been decided between them in respect of that concerning which they disagree.
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And they did not become divided until after knowledge had come to them out of envy among themselves; and had not a word gone forth from your Lord till an appointed term, certainly judgment would have been given between them; and those who were made to inherit the Book after them are most surely in disquieting doubt concerning it.
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Peace,
I think drfazl brought up the ayah I was thinking of. Otherwise I have another one I can look up at some point when I have the opportunity. Right now I am not at home and looking for an ayah on this cellphone is dull.
God bless you
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No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence That is truly easy for Allah
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No affliction comes about but by Allah's permission; and whoever believes in Allah, He guides aright his heart; and Allah is Cognizant of all things.
It is not pre-recorded, but recorded - evreything in your souls.......e.t.c
No affliction comes but by permission of Allah, according to circumstances......nothing about a pre-record .......
or is that wrong?
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Peace dear brother 357,
I will look that up more specifically later. To be honest, I would rather things were like you said since it seems more in harmony that way. But those Muslims that believe strongly in fate think differently.
But I think it is a false security to depend too much on one's fate.
Actions in life make a difference and we are born with free will, that is what I believe. But God may have laid out a destiny for us, I believe that too. If He wants us to follow something He decided no one can prevent that.
God bless you
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It is not pre-recorded, but recorded - evreything in your souls.......e.t.c
No affliction comes but by permission of Allah, according to circumstances......nothing about a pre-record .......
or is that wrong?
Peace
357
Man of FaithThat was not my translation but a cut and paste of the verse. Can you explain your conclusion?
Can you read this para 1 & 2 of my post http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg330991#msg330991 and see if there is an explanation to 5722?fazl
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Peace drfazl,
Sorry for being confusing dear brother. While I believe in free will and actions, I also think this is what we are made to believe and feel about our existence. God knows everything and it would be to humiliate His grand intelligence to say otherwise. I tried to convey in another thread that I believe that God is able to work on several levels of awareness at the same time, beyond our ability to comprehend. At the same time, we have free will to make choices in our lives, but God always gets what He wills, there is no doubt about that.
If we cannot make choices in life then this trial is redundant, irrelevant. No, we have free will and can consciously disobey God and wreak havoc, however God can put an end to that any instant since He is omnipotent and aware of everything which happens down on atom level. God is in total control and we cannot escape His Knowledge of everything. Our deeds have dire consequences and God's plans are seamlessly applied to our running "game" world.
God created souls of energy which he inserted into our living bodies which are mortal while our bodies are eternal unless God decides to destroy them is where my philosophies go.
But that everything is already decided before we start would be making this trial redundant, not necessary. It is against logic. God also says he wants to expose the hypocrites and company.
God bless you
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God bless you,
Our souls (which are energy) were inserted into our mortal bodies here on Earth.
I wrote the wrong word in the end, it was supposed to be "living bodies which are mortal while our souls are eternal unless God decides to destroy them". The souls are detached from the bodies when we die.
God bless you
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God says this world is nothing but a trial to boastful men, to try their efforts and luck and see if they have any say over anything God had created in the skies and on the earth and that are in between. All your efforts will avail nothing lively. They cannot create a mosquito or a fly. Either you become a servant to the One Creator who shall make the creative force subservient to you; or to the contrary, if you want a FREE-FOR-ALL, it is towards your own destruction and you know that well. All your trial will teach you It is "Trial and Error" never "Trial and Success" in your trial to create life with liveliness. You cannot get back anything from a fly if it takes away a thing from you. What free Will we want? Choice is between life and death; between health and diseases; between creation and destruction what is your choice?
We are self-suffering, self-destructive, self-defeating and suicidal by opting for our free will i.e. freeing ourselves from the Will of God. Free-will is thus shaitan being active in every one's mind who does not reflect the liveliness of all the created things of God.
Peace,
drfazl -
Our souls (which are energy) were inserted into our mortal bodies here on Earth.
Peace Man of Faith,
Where is the evidence that our souls are energy?
Peace 357, drfazl, Man of Faith, and the rest of the family
57/22 is one of the most debated ayats I have ever encountered. There have been
some lengthy discussions about predestination. If we are going to debate this amazing
subject, let us first decide which ayat/ayats we will read, that will hopefully shorten the debate.
My choice as a starting point is 18/60-82. If any one has another ayat or ayats concerning
al-Qadr please feel free to contribute (65/11, 10/19, 42/14) are examples.I will start the discussion
Time as we know it does not exist for God. yes/no
The articles of faith
Amantu billahi wa malaikatihi wa kutubihi wa rusulihi wal-yawmil-akhiri wa bil-qadari khayrihi wa sharrihi minallahi taala wal-ba?thu ba?dal-mawti haqqun
Amantu billahi I believed in the existence and oneness of Allah, that He has no partners or counterparts, that He has all kinds of loftiness and that He is free of all kinds of deficiency.
Wa malaikatihi I also believed in the angels of Allah.
Wa kutubihi I also believed in the books of Allah.
Wa rusulihi I also believed in the prophets of Allah.
Wal-yawmil-akhiri I also believed in the Day of Judgment.
Wa bil-qadari khayrihi wa sharrihi minallahi taala I also believed in the destiny, that everything that seems as good or evil to us take place through the knowledge, law and creation of Allah.
Wal-ba?thu ba?dal-mawti haqqun I also heartily believed in life after death (and resurrection). All of them are true and right.peace
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Peace hawk99,
The fact that the souls are not destroyed at death means they must be some sort of energy not permanently attached to the physical bodies we have during our stay on Earth. These seem to be contained by God in whatever way is beyond my comprehension.
Anyway, when the physical body dies here on Earth the soul matter is contained somewhere. It is not destroyed why it must be an energy, like people tend to talk about spirits. But I say spiritual energy. We are then brought back to God as He tells us in Quran, but the soul needs to be contained somehow. If you talk about my game allegorical ideas it would mean the data (energy) is backed up and saved in the memory.
It is not all that important, but if the souls were not a separate entity we would vanish at the moment of death, no more consciousness.
Well, the thread is not really about the thing you bring up for discussion. Anyway, for me it is clear that we can affect our path and choices in life make a difference or the Quran would feel very strange in its meaning. The meaning of God's trial and reason why we even are here would be redundant if we were not able to have free will or everything was already decided. It is basic logic in my opinion.
God bless you
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Peace hawk99,
The fact that the souls are not destroyed at death means they must be some sort of energy not permanently attached to the physical bodies we have during our stay on Earth. These seem to be contained by God in whatever way is beyond my comprehension.
Anyway, when the physical body dies here on Earth the soul matter is contained somewhere. It is not destroyed why it must be an energy, like people tend to talk about spirits. But I say spiritual energy. We are then brought back to God as He tells us in Quran, but the soul needs to be contained somehow. If you talk about my game allegorical ideas it would mean the data (energy) is backed up and saved in the memory.
It is not all that important, but if the souls were not a separate entity we would vanish at the moment of death, no more consciousness.
Well, the thread is not really about the thing you bring up for discussion. Anyway, for me it is clear that we can affect our path and choices in life make a difference or the Quran would feel very strange in its meaning. The meaning of God's trial and reason why we even are here would be redundant if we were not able to have free will or everything was already decided. It is basic logic in my opinion.
God bless you
Peace Man of Faith,
Thank you for your reply, please ignore my previous post.
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Peace hawk99,
You are welcome brother. Do not worry about it. Religion is a very abstract and mind-intense topic (even if it should not be) and it is easy to fall unto conjecture. One has to seek refuge in God before attempting.
I am sometimes philosophizing on things I do not know for certain, but then I try to make it clear.
Also I try to honestly say it is beyond my comprehension why things are like they are in some cases.
But the topic I bring up in this thread, the main topic, is based on my understanding of Quran and is no guesswork. It might be heavy paraphrasing, but it was my aid to explain step A to B on the religious ladder, or chain in my story.
Of course Quran is truly enough, but it can always be interesting to view things in different ways as long as they follow the Truth. Mine is more like an illustration or more "baby level" of the religious path. Ah well, the human is the most argumentative type, they need much convincing. I cannot let go of that heifer memory when I speak to you
"How much Nearness? When will Guidance come? What should I do with my Knowledge? Why will I gain a peace of mind first at the end?"
God bless you
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Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom = Peace and Prosperity
Post 3 ? Nearness and Guidance part 2
Peace be unto you,
Let us continue to elaborate on this thing called Nearness.
The most important thing to begin with on the path to become a Believer and not ?just? a muslim is to search for God?s Nearness. This is the most fundamental parameter in the acts of worship of God. Unless we try to get closer to God, He will not give us Guidance. The Nearness can be achieved not mainly through prayers but especially by heeding God and serving Him, the Unseen, through peacemaking (islamic) deeds.
As I have mentioned in past posts in other threads, we can summarize that the main goal in islam is to reach an inner Peace, and that meaning a peace with both yourself and your surroundings. Now in this thread I am finally trying to explain what I actually mean through this entire chain. We need to move from A to B, that is truly what we need to do, by picking up things along the way, which are things like Guidance, Knowledge and Wisdom. A is when beginning to obtain Nearness and B once we reach the Peace. And when the whole chain is complete, although the links can always grow stronger, we can finally call ourselves Believers (or Mo?meen).
But to return to the step by step explanation; only by performing righteous, peaceful deeds and by showing a moral character can we get God?s attention and He will start to become our ally, sometimes instead of Shaytaan who has often been misleading us through our lives without perceiving. We are not invulnerable from the deceptions of Shaytaan when we get closer to God, but God will provide protection, especially if we ask for it which we should. This whole first part is what I consider the Nearness.
Let us move over to Guidance.Guidance could be regarded as relatively closely connected to Nearness, but I consider it separate. However, I added it together with Nearness because they go hand in hand more or less. You will notice the connection quite colorfully soon as I continue to explain. Anyway, once Nearness ?points? have started to accumulate and there is a sense of Nearness, God will begin to grant us Guidance. Guidance is in the form of inspiration which influence our ability to make righteous decisions in life positively.
We can see it metaphorically as if God is lighting our Path ahead of us. Remember the poem I added in my previous post. It describes this idea pretty well. The stronger the Guidance becomes, which can never get maximized, the clearer the Path is in front of you. As the poem tells; it is not always easy to appreciate how much God is helping us until we ponder about it, and we will not continue on the chain towards Peace as long as we do not do so.
Once the Guidance parameter has grown very strong, the inspiration gained will also feel very real. God will show Himself through signs to you; more potent the strength of Guidance. I have no doubt if the level gets strong enough that God could literally speak through you. And an intelligent blessed man or woman can identify a guided Believer through how much this person ?shines?. Thus the person is practically infused with the Holy Spirit, which is also known as the spirit of God.
God is not speaking with us (directly) except under very special circumstances, but if He was it would feel like a very strong penetrating light (you can understand this by reading God?s own description of Him in a part of Quran when he talks about himself as a lamp). Either way, this is not what is meant with this talk about the Holy Spirit. God may contact us through an angel and then the angel is disguised as a man, according to what the Quran tells us. But in most cases and for most humans, God will never show such strong signs as sending an angel. They are only in special cases if the human is part of a plot which God has arranged or He has any particular interest in this person and God consider him/her very exceptional. The Believer should never expect God to show up or anything, and even if God shows something spectacularly strong at one occasion it can take months or years until you see something like that again. A year is nothing for God, and a Believer should also realize the life is very short and will soon be called back to his/her Creator. We should not become ?praise-junkies? and think God will reward our reverence every other day by showing a sign.
Now we more than covered everything which had to do with Guidance, or rather we did not even cover the half of it, but detailed information may come after I finish going through all the parts of the Believer chain. While the Guidance is growing strong, we will start to move over to the next part of the chain called Knowledge and Wisdom, and it is a very rewarding part of the whole Peacemaking work. It is connected to Guidance, but not as closely as between Nearness and Guidance. The sense of reward from God will be quite immense and I will be really happy if many of you who may be reading these posts will also feel this once we ascend on God?s ladder.
You can say this is the religion of islam; this is what islam is and it is nothing like sectarian ?Muslims? consider it to be. God is not a grumpy old man with beard who seems to be wearing military uniform and yelling ?do 4 rakah, not 3 rakah?, ?you have to use three stones to wipe your ass?, ?eat only with your right hand?, ?use my prayers to say salam to Muhammad (where did this come from anyway?)?, ?this is haraam, that is haraam, music is haraam, pictures on the wall is haraam? bla bla?, ?You should sit it your mosques commemorating all your heroes because they are most honorable, they were really worth praising (why?)?.
No, this last part in the above paragraph is not islam. It was a sarcastic remark on the ones who are the enemies of God. They blaspheme in God?s name and invent a lot of strange restrictions and rules which God never authorized, and they mock and ridicule God in many ways too. If there would come a Messenger now, many of today?s ?Muslims? would be the new enemies of God?s Messenger without perceiving it themselves. History would just repeat itself, the pagans of Muhammad?s time would be the pagans of our time, ie the ones who once worshiped the statues would fight for their idol Muhammad and his family instead.
The last paragraphs were a bit off-topic, but why not some God propaganda as well? Let there be Light and there was Light.
Next time, God willing, I will move over to ?Knowledge and Wisdom? unless I do not find a reason to add something to Nearness and Guidance.
?May the Force (of God) be with you?; Or if you want to hear my regular phrase ?God bless you?
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Once the Guidance parameter has grown very strong, the inspiration gained will also feel very real. God will show Himself through signs to you; more potent the strength of Guidance. I have no doubt if the level gets strong enough that God could literally speak through you. And an intelligent blessed man or woman can identify a guided Believer through how much this person ?shines?. Thus the person is practically infused with the Holy Spirit, which is also known as the spirit of God.
Peace Man of Faith,
Thank you for your post. It rings true on many things I believe and understand about the Quran. I've really enjoyed reading it and I especially like that part, it's a beautiful way to put the nature of a guided Believer. I appreciate the effort that must go into this.
May Allah swt reward you for your efforts