Update on :: Ramadhan Fasting or .....? ::
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Salaam,
This is an update which was written on thread Ramadhan Fasting or .....? But it seems people are missing it and coming up with the same questions, so I decided to open up a new thread as Update on Ramadhan Fasting or .....? here.
Please take a look at the original thread if you haven't seen it.There are three major questions asked by many people.
- Why shahr means full-moon and why not a month?
- How many days we have to fast?
- What means saum or siyaam ?
InshaAllah, I will try to answer all these questions from alQuraan by the permission of my Lord, Allah.
Question
Why shahr means full-moon and why not a month?2185
2185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful .The highlighted part says "So whoever witnesses alShahr, so let him fast it". Here, if you take shahr as a month, please tell me how can you witness the month? You can witness a calendar, but not the month. Right?
If you think you can witness the month, I should ask, which calendar month? Gregorian's, Arabic's, Urdu's, Hindu's or Fiscal calendar? That is not mentioned in the aayat above.Besides this, if you think that you can witness the month, then you have to fast a single day as per the above highlighted part. Which says, So whoever witnesses the month, so let him FAST IT. Yasum is the word used above is referring to a single saum, so no need to fast for a complete month, just one saum of the month will do.
Question
How many days we have to fast?2185
2185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful .When you understand that alShahr does not mean a month but a full-moon, the same highlighted part above shows us the number of days to fast.
When you witness a full-moon, you have to fast it. Then again if you witness a full-moon next day, you have to fast it. This is how it goes. There might be 3 full-moons, or 5 full-moons, or 7 full-moons . But I have witnessed 3 full-moons last year and this year 5.
This is the reason I think "ayyaman ma3doodatin" is used, that means "a limited number of days" and a fixed number of days are not given clearly.
Question
What means saum or siyaam ?Without going into confusions, it is simple to see the definition of word saum in 1926.
If you take "kuloo wa ishraboo" means "eat and drink", then you can see a contradiction between 2187 and 1926 as the definition of saum in 1926 starts with eat and drink.1926
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "Hope this may help inshaAllah. This is just my personal understanding, please check all the quoted aayaat carefully before accepting it.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace All!
I was having a thought on this topic... something I'm wondering about.Who is the audience of this instruction? Shall we assume it is the believers who take AQ as a guide? Anyway, this was not the actual question.
Rather, I'm wondering about this expression "whomever witnesses the shahr.." (faman shahida alshahr..). It doesn't give me a very imperative impression like something that all believers that wish to do good needs to, or should, do. I seems more like only SOME people will do it... witness and therefore fast. I really wonder what witness actually entails in this case.
Also, another thing I personally cannot understand, or see the logic in, is why only those who witness the shahar should fast.
What is the connection between witnessing a shahr and fasting??
Why only the witnesses?
Why should witnessing lead to fasting?
What's the connection there? I for sure cannot see it.
Can't we all fast regardless of whether we visually see a moon or not? How does visually seeing a moon mandate fasting? Can't we fast regardless of whether or not we see a moon? What is the link between fasting (or abstaining) and witnessing a moon? I mean, if fasting from food/drink/sex is beneficial for us... (if we only knew) then why is that only for those who witness the shahr? Shouldn't and wouldn't everyone benefit from fasting? Must there be a prerequisite for this fasting? Why, or rather How come?
In case we take shahr as 'month' then witness would seem to mean 'acknowledge' or something... but why would AQ say that 'whomever' witnesses it, as if some people who read AQ don't take it as guidance? The odd thing is that this would be the case for other instructions as well then, assuming that not all readers take AQ as guidance.Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not very clear on this whole thing. My issue is that I cannot see how things work together logic unison. The separate terms/words for 'month'/'moon', 'witness' and 'fast' could perhaps be accurate translations for shahr, shahid, saum... but when put together it doesn't resemble clock-work to me. And frankly speaking, I cannot resort to following something, whatever it is, just "because God said so", without any real clarity about the matter.
Wishes of Peace
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Peace,
Maybe an english definition is needed for witness (shahid)
Definitions 1 and 2 describe ramadan
Definition #4 describes 3/18
wit?ness/wtns/ Show Spelled Show IPA
verb (used with object)
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to see, hear, or know by personal presence and perception to witness an accident.
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to be present at (an occurrence) as a formal witness, spectator, bystander, etc. She witnessed our wedding.
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to bear witness to; testify to; give or afford evidence of.
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to attest by one's signature He witnessed her will.
verb (used without object) -
to bear witness; testify; give or afford evidence.
at?test (3/1 (shahadah)
1.be evidence of something to show that something exists or is true or valid
2.confirm something to state that something is true, especially in a formal written statementSynonyms confirm, prove, show, bear out, corroborate, verify
Have a blessed ramadan
peace
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1st The Arabic word SAHR in all dictionaries including the most accurate and detailed, and extensive one, i.e. the LANE?s, is defined to mean MONTH. Actually the first definition of SHAHR in LANE?s is ?the NEW moon when it appears?.
2nd In The Qur?aan there are SEVENTEEN occurrences of the word SHAHR including its dual and plural forms. They all mean nothing but MONTH. See the list of verses below and check them out.
2;185-194-197-217-226-234, 4;92, 5;2-97, 9;2-5-36, 34;12, 97;3, 46;15, 58;4, 65;4
3rd Witnessing the month means nothing but seeing the NEW MOON, and informing other people about it also means the same thing.
4th Verse 1926 below CLEARLY talks about fasting/abstaining from speech, NOT from food and drink .
So eat and drink thou, and cool thine eyes; and if thou beholdest the human beings anyone, say verily I have vowed to the Compassionate a fast, so I shall not speak today to any human being.
5th SHAHR/MONTH in The Qur'aan means LUNAR calendar month, NOT Solar.
6th Therefore The MONTH of RAMADZAAN is the month of obligatory fasting through every single day of the month from DAWN to DUSK, abstaining from EATING, DRINKING, and COITUS, for either 29 or 30 days in a row.
Peace,
Khalil -
1st The Arabic word SAHR in all dictionaries including the most accurate and detailed, and extensive one, i.e. the LANE?s, is defined to mean MONTH. Actually the first definition of SHAHR in LANE?s is ?the NEW moon when it appears?.
2nd In The Qur?aan there are SEVENTEEN occurrences of the word SHAHR including its dual and plural forms. They all mean nothing but MONTH. See the list of verses below and check them out.
2;185-194-197-217-226-234, 4;92, 5;2-97, 9;2-5-36, 34;12, 97;3, 46;15, 58;4, 65;4
3rd Witnessing the month means nothing but seeing the NEW MOON, and informing other people about it also means the same thing.
4th Verse 1926 below CLEARLY talks about fasting/abstaining from speech, NOT from food and drink .
So eat and drink thou, and cool thine eyes; and if thou beholdest the human beings anyone, say verily I have vowed to the Compassionate a fast, so I shall not speak today to any human being.
5th SHAHR/MONTH in The Qur'aan means LUNAR calendar month, NOT Solar.
6th Therefore The MONTH of RAMADZAAN is the month of obligatory fasting through every single day of the month from DAWN to DUSK, abstaining from EATING, DRINKING, and COITUS, for either 29 or 30 days in a row.
Peace,
KhalilPeace Khalil and thanks for you input.
Aren't point 4 and 6 saying different things in terms of what we should abstain from ?
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1st The Arabic word SAHR in all dictionaries including the most accurate and detailed, and extensive one, i.e. the LANE?s, is defined to mean MONTH. Actually the first definition of SHAHR in LANE?s is ?the NEW moon when it appears?.
2nd In The Qur?aan there are SEVENTEEN occurrences of the word SHAHR including its dual and plural forms. They all mean nothing but MONTH. See the list of verses below and check them out.
2;185-194-197-217-226-234, 4;92, 5;2-97, 9;2-5-36, 34;12, 97;3, 46;15, 58;4, 65;4
3rd Witnessing the month means nothing but seeing the NEW MOON, and informing other people about it also means the same thing.
4th Verse 1926 below CLEARLY talks about fasting/abstaining from speech, NOT from food and drink .
So eat and drink thou, and cool thine eyes; and if thou beholdest the human beings anyone, say verily I have vowed to the Compassionate a fast, so I shall not speak today to any human being.
5th SHAHR/MONTH in The Qur'aan means LUNAR calendar month, NOT Solar.
6th Therefore The MONTH of RAMADZAAN is the month of obligatory fasting through every single day of the month from DAWN to DUSK, abstaining from EATING, DRINKING, and COITUS, for either 29 or 30 days in a row.
Peace,
KhalilLove to tell this tale
A woman goes to her pir sahib, "o peer sahib when ever my husband comes home from work we start argueing always, please tell me how i can stop this"
The peer sahib gives her a taweez and says "when your husband comes home from work take hold of the taweez in between your teeth and what ever he says don't let go of the taweez" and she started doing so and magic , no more argueing!
The not talking was a tool to not intensify a situation , that is all and that can of course be done a number of different ways -
Mary isn't being told to tell other people that she can't speak to them - as that would be verbal also, but is told not to speak so as not to go into an un-necessary discussion which didn't have a an acceptable explanation about how the child came into being as she isn't yet married.
"So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"
She is simply told to side step the issue, don't put herself in a situation where she will need to explain herself - who would believe the child wasn't her fault - and people where stoned at that time.
I believe. !
hope you liked the tale.
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...She is simply told to side step the issue, don't put herself in a situation where she will need to explain herself - who would believe the child wasn't her fault - and people where stoned at that time.
I believe. !
hope you liked the tale.
Exactly. And quite a relevant and interesting tale. I liked it a lot! ;D
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Peace Khalil and thanks for you input.
Aren't point 4 and 6 saying different things in terms of what we should abstain from ?
It sure is different. The story of Mary in 1926 is completely different and quite irrelevant to the fasting of Ramadzaan. Mary abstained from speech only, but 2187 below, clearly tells us that we are allowed to have SEX, FOOD, and DRINK during the night of fasting, then start abstaining from them/fast from DAWN and complete/finish it at DUSK/beginning of night.
Allowed unto you, on the night of fasts, is consorting with your women. they are a garment unto you, and ye are a garment unto them. Allah knoweth that ye have been defrauding yourselves, so He hath relented toward you and pardoned you. Wherefore now copulate with them, and seek that which Allah hath prescribed for you, and eat and drink, Until the white thread becometh manifest unto you from the black thread of the dawn; thereafter complete the fast till night fall. And copulate not with them While ye are retreating in the mosques. These are the bounds of Allah, wherefore approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth all His signs unto mankind that haply they may fear Him.
Peace,
khalil -
Peace brother kgwithnob,
Thanks for your enlightening input. I will keep fasting as I already believed God commanded, I am on the 11th day now. But I would truly wish not to be without doubt whatsoever about this month, although your input helped a bit.
God bless you
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Mary isn't being told to tell other people that she can't speak to them - as that would be verbal also, but is told not to speak so as not to go into an un-necessary discussion which didn't have a an acceptable explanation about how the child came into being as she isn't yet married.
"So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"
She is simply told to side step the issue, don't put herself in a situation where she will need to explain herself - who would believe the child wasn't her fault - and people where stoned at that time.
Nice story about the taveez!
Also, your explanation makes sense when considering that she is told to SAY, that she won't speak. If she were to stay totally silent, not uttering a sound, then naturally she wouldn't be able to announce her ongoing silence in words.
Peace -
Peace all.
The interesting things in this thread is brother mmkhan create a new thread which actually a duplicate of the previous one.Plus all the replies in here is also similiar with the previous thread rotfl
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I recall a point from another forum about a different meaning of Ramadan. I would put it here but everything that is put here comes under INTENSE discussion. There's a hint for all those who are interested, and thus I can avoid all the INTENSE debate. Especially over this. A little mysterious maybe but the way some people discuss this topic of fasting...
You know, this issue reminds me of how people who follow hadith say how going against the traditional interpretation is wrong because its so clear that we should follow what is traditional in Islam and hadith because 1. so many before us have done it. 2. the Quran has been misinterpreted and you are using wishful thinking 3. we don't understand the hadith properly etc and need to know the Arabic before we can understand it. Traditional interpretations of the Quran with the beloved traditional tafseer say the world was flat apparently. A lot believed that. But when you actually look at what the Quran says, it doesn't say that at all.
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Also, another thing I personally cannot understand, or see the logic in, is why only those who witness the shahar should fast.
For me, witnessing the moon is very spiritual. Even my children (3 and 5) when they see the full moon they are amazed and have to tell everyone to look at it. I think it is something that brings you closer to God and reinforces your faith. I know so many people who live their life day to day and NEVER notice the full moon. So maybe fasting isn't prescribed for them?
For me, witnessing the full moon is like witnessing a miracle and I see the importance of it. Just my two cents
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Salaam,
1926
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "Few questions to ponder upon from 1926.
Q- Why this aayat starts with fakuliy washrabiy while talking about Saum?
A- Just to clarify the misunderstanding of kuloo washraboo in 2187 during Saum.Q- What is the purpose of using the word Saum in this aayat? Where this aayat can be said without using the word Saum in it?
A- Just to clarify the meaning of Saum.Q- When she said, I am in Saum and will not talk to any man, why didn't they ask her, what type of 'not talking Saum' is this?
A- Because they all know very well what Saum means.If anyone has better answers to these questions, please bring it in here.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Nice story about the taveez!
Also, your explanation makes sense when considering that she is told to SAY, that she won't speak. If she were to stay totally silent, not uttering a sound, then naturally she wouldn't be able to announce her ongoing silence in words.
PeacePeace brother,
1926
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "Please note that both highlighted words are different.
= Say
= Communicateis used because she has to inform people that she is fasting. Otherwise, how do they know that she is fasting because it was not a Ramadhan timing. So, she has to say/inform them.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
If you read Quran from the inside out instead of from the outside in you will see how
straight forward the ayat 9/26 is. Put yourself in the narrative and many times your
conclusion will not be the same as a bystander. Ayat 9/26 has nothing to do with
ramadan. It has to do with the extraordinary circumstances of the birth of Jesus.
The difficulty of explaining the fatherless birth of her son would not make sense
to many. So she said, "I am not gonna talk to anyone about it". You would not believe
me anyway so she just pointed to the baby. Remember that Zachariah was involved
in difficult if not impossible circumstances regarding the birth of John, and took similar
action."Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, 'I have made a
vow of silence; I am not talking today to anyone.'"She came to her family, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have
committed something that is totally unexpected."O descendant of Aaron, your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother
unchaste."She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?"
Also, she would not be ignorant and just ignore people, she just would "tell" them
I'm not talking.All continue to have a blessed ramadan
peace
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Peace brother,
1926
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "Please note that both highlighted words are different.
= Say
= Communicateis used because she has to inform people that she is fasting. Otherwise, how do they know that she is fasting because it was not a Ramadhan timing. So, she has to say/inform them.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanAs hawk explained and using lanes
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so not i want disagreement/ dissension/ strife with anyone today.' "
So we all know what is saum.
And i bet where ever else saum is in the quran , checking the context it will be similer.
Regards.
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Peace,
Got something new to ponder upon, please take a look.
1926
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "= Say
= CommunicatePlease note that both highlighted words are different. And there is a very thin line between them. During saum maryam can say but cannot kalaam .
This means Saum is referring to ONE particular thing only.
This may clarify 2187? Because eating and drinking are TWO things not ONE.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan