Poll:How many daily Salat prayers are there?
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Verse 2238 below determines the minimum number of daily SALAATs (obligatory prayers) we must perform.
Safeguard over the salaatS AND the MIDDLE salaat and stand before GOD devoutly obedient.
The word SALAWAAT in Arabic is a plural noun, must be at least 3.
The word sallaatulWUSTAA means MIDDLE prayer.
SALAWAAT must be at least 4 to have a MIDDLE room for SALAATULWUSTA, i.e. 2, salaatulwustaa, 2.
Therefore, the minimum number of daily sallaats are 2+1(middle prayer)+2=5Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Godsubmitter,
I do not take the information I have about Jesus as absolutely certain facts, but it does not matter really. It did not issue any teachings just Jesus alleged preference for prayer timings. Could simply be his routine. Most of the things he allegedly said according to the Gospel are very wise sayings so they are likely to be true even if it is not as certain as Quran. One of the best I know is "Man cannot live by words alone but prove them through his deeds". I especially like the "man cannot live by words alone...". If you just ignore the obvious added blasphemies in the text you can easily recognize the man who was Jesus.
I can understand why the man is subject to so much idolization because he certainly was a role model for people. We must be careful lifting him up in rank because all he did was supported strongly by God. He was more or less a living conduit of the Holy Spirit.
He did not come with any particular new teachings; he just wisely elaborated and explained the Mosaic Law, as well as the usual warnings for the disbelievers and good tidings for the Believers. He seemed to have made people aware of God's Kingdom and announced it very clearly as we can see.
Peace kgwithnob,
You say three prayers is the meaning of the word salawat, which I already stated in my previous post. I see the Wusta prayer as you mention as one of those three prayers. The whole system seems to be circulating around a mandatory three prayers although Muhammad probably actually did five prayers per day.
It is difficult to acknowledge five prayers, God would not talk in riddles when trying to present the prayer timings and he probably did not. There can only be three mandatory prayers as I can see. The one at dawn and the one at night plus one during the day. I still pray five prayers however because it is simple for me to fit that prayer into my daily routine, although I sometimes make them six with a prayer in the morning.
Peace Earthdom,
No, I was not necessarily talking about rakat, I simply slipped into that topic. In fact when I read back I did not mention anything about rakat.
And no one who is Christian is really following how often Jesus prayed.
Peace 357,
Unfortunately I do not follow your system.
Peace Aamer,
My answer was in my previous post. Three was my answer. Al-Fajr, Al-Wusta and Al-Isha. Those are the only prayers God mentioned by name and on such an important topic God would not speak in riddles. Al-Wusta seems to be quite flexible but has to be observed before sunset. It could be the prayer that Solomon missed when he tended to his horses. This might be the reason why he was so upset about missing the prayer because he observed the dawn prayer (it is almost impossible to miss the dawn prayer as it is the first thing you do) and then worked with the horses the whole day until the sun had gone down and he realized he had not prayed the whole day.
There is also no obvious prayer timing for an alleged afternoon (asr) prayer which adds to the logical conclusion that there is no mandatory afternoon prayer, only Salah someone can observe to do something extra for God. This prayer can be found to have been observed by the people of the Bible too as there is a verse where "they went to observe the 3 o'clock prayer". As we have heard before in the Quran alone lines; the Quran claims that it is perfectly detailed and so that would clearly mean that there are only three mandatory daily prayers but there is no upper limit really. If we would pray/stay in contact, meditate with the Lord every other hour this would be the best for us.
Despite this I keep a five daily prayer regular schedule unless I am unable to attend the afternoon prayer for some reason which would mean I "only" pray four prayers that day. If you are totally dedicated with recurring regular prayers then God will not punish you if you miss one prayer on your routine schedule.
And the two prayer solution is rule out completely, both because the word for salawat means a minimum of three and that God wrote to perform regular prayers (salat) throughout the day.
At last I would say that it is obviously not okay to hook on two prayers in a row since this style indicates that you treat salat as just some routine physical movements and not the underlying background why you do it. Shia muslims gather up the zuhr and asr prayer, and maghrib and isha prayers, and pray them together which does not make any serious impression. If you are short on time and really want to observe an extra prayer in the afternoon it is better to simply pray 'on-the-fly' than an insult like just bunching up two prayers in a row.
God bless you all
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Peace Godsubmitter,
I do not take the information I have about Jesus as absolutely certain facts, but it does not matter really. It did not issue any teachings just Jesus alleged preference for prayer timings. Could simply be his routine. Most of the things he allegedly said according to the Gospel are very wise sayings so they are likely to be true even if it is not as certain as Quran. One of the best I know is "Man cannot live by words alone but prove them through his deeds". I especially like the "man cannot live by words alone...". If you just ignore the obvious added blasphemies in the text you can easily recognize the man who was Jesus.
I can understand why the man is subject to so much idolization because he certainly was a role model for people. We must be careful lifting him up in rank because all he did was supported strongly by God. He was more or less a living conduit of the Holy Spirit.
He did not come with any particular new teachings; he just wisely elaborated and explained the Mosaic Law, as well as the usual warnings for the disbelievers and good tidings for the Believers. He seemed to have made people aware of God's Kingdom and announced it very clearly as we can see.
That is why I am curious why there would not come a Messenger who elaborated on and explained the Quranic teachings too a while after the deliverer of it was here.
Peace kgwithnob,
You say three prayers is the meaning of the word salawat, which I already stated in my previous post. I see the Wusta prayer as you mention as one of those three prayers. The whole system seems to be circulating around a mandatory three prayers although Muhammad probably actually did five prayers per day.
It is difficult to acknowledge five prayers, God would not talk in riddles when trying to present the prayer timings and he probably did not. There can only be three mandatory prayers as I can see. The one at dawn and the one at night plus one during the day. I still pray five prayers however because it is simple for me to fit that prayer into my daily routine, although I sometimes make them six with a prayer in the morning.
Peace Earthdom,
No, I was not necessarily talking about rakat, I simply slipped into that topic. In fact when I read back I did not mention anything about rakat.
And no one who is Christian is really following how often Jesus prayed.
Peace 357,
Unfortunately I do not follow your system.
Peace Aamer,
My answer was in my previous post. Three was my answer. Al-Fajr, Al-Wusta and Al-Isha. Those are the only prayers God mentioned by name and on such an important topic God would not speak in riddles. Al-Wusta seems to be quite flexible but has to be observed before sunset. It could be the prayer that Solomon missed when he tended to his horses. This might be the reason why he was so upset about missing the prayer because he observed the dawn prayer (it is almost impossible to miss the dawn prayer as it is the first thing you do) and then worked with the horses the whole day until the sun had gone down and he realized he had not prayed the whole day.
There is also no obvious prayer timing for an alleged afternoon (asr) prayer which adds to the logical conclusion that there is no mandatory afternoon prayer, only Salah someone can observe to do something extra for God. This prayer can be found to have been observed by the people of the Bible too as there is a verse where "they went to observe the 3 o'clock prayer". As we have heard before in the Quran alone lines; the Quran claims that it is perfectly detailed and so that would clearly mean that there are only three mandatory daily prayers but there is no upper limit really. If we would pray/stay in contact, meditate with the Lord every other hour this would be the best for us.
Despite this I keep a five daily prayer regular schedule unless I am unable to attend the afternoon prayer for some reason which would mean I "only" pray four prayers that day. If you are totally dedicated with recurring regular prayers then God will not punish you if you miss one prayer on your routine schedule.
And the two prayer solution is rule out completely, both because the word for salawat means a minimum of three and that God wrote to perform regular prayers (salat) throughout the day.
At last I would say that it is obviously not okay to hook on two prayers in a row since this style indicates that you treat salat as just some routine physical movements and not the underlying background why you do it. Shia muslims gather up the zuhr and asr prayer, and maghrib and isha prayers, and pray them together which does not make any serious impression. If you are short on time and really want to observe an extra prayer in the afternoon it is better to simply pray 'on-the-fly' than an insult like just bunching up two prayers in a row.
God bless you all
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... I see the Wusta prayer as you mention as one of those three prayers...
I had highlighted the word "AND" in the translation of verse 2238 to mean that the MIDDLE prayer is not part of the minimum 3 mentioned prayerS. It means an addition, not inclusion. In other words X, Y, Z AND W, means that W as a separate entity is an addition to X, Y, Z but not included among them.
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace Khalil.
I had highlighted the word "AND" in the translation of verse 2238 to mean that the MIDDLE prayer is not part of the minimum 3 mentioned prayerS. It means an addition, not inclusion. In other words X, Y, Z AND W, means that W as a separate entity is an addition to X, Y, Z but not included among them.
You are wrong. is also used in an including manner in the great reading. 2.136 Are Abraham, Moses and Jesus no prophets? According to your logic they are not.
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Peace Khalil.
I had highlighted the word "AND" in the translation of verse 2238 to mean that the MIDDLE prayer is not part of the minimum 3 mentioned prayerS. It means an addition, not inclusion. In other words X, Y, Z AND W, means that W as a separate entity is an addition to X, Y, Z but not included among them.
You are wrong. is also used in an including manner in the great reading. 2.136 Are Abraham, Moses and Jesus no prophets? According to your logic they are not.
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Peace Khalil.
You are wrong. is also used in an including manner in the great reading. 2.136 Are Abraham, Moses and Jesus no prophets? According to your logic they are not.
You are mixing apples with oranges here. What I meant by "addition not inclusion" was the number of salaats, not their meanings. Salaat is salaat be it salaatulfajr, salaatulmaghrib, and or salaatulWUSTA. What I mean here is that in verse 2238 salaatulwusta is not included in the NUMBER of salaats in "ASSALAWAAT". Whatever the number of "ASSALAWAAT", we need to ADD salaatulwusta to that number to get the total number of DAILY salaats.
On the other hand, number of ASSALAWAAT must be an even number equal or greater than 4 so it can be split in two equal parts for the salaatulwusta to sit right in the middle. The minimum for assalawaat must be 4=2+2, i.e. 2+1(salaatuleusta)+2=5 daily salaats. Hope its clear. ;D
Peace,
Khalil -
You are mixing apples with oranges here. What I meant by "addition not inclusion" was the number of salaats, not their meanings. Salaat is salaat be it salaatulfajr, salaatulmaghrib, and or salaatulWUSTA. What I mean here is that in verse 2238 salaatulwusta is not included in the NUMBER of salaats in "ASSALAWAAT". Whatever the number of "ASSALAWAAT", we need to ADD salaatulwusta to that number to get the total number of DAILY salaats.
On the other hand, number of ASSALAWAAT must be an even number equal or greater than 4 so it can be split in two parts for the salaatulwusta to sit right in the middle. The minimum for assalawaat must be 4=2+2, i.e. 2+1(salaatuleusta)+2=5 daily salaats. Hope its clear. ;D
Peace,
KhalilSalaamun alayka,
why 4 and not 6?
salaam,
Bender -
Salaamun alayka,
why 4 and not 6?
salaam,
BenderIn my opinion any even number equal or greater than 4 which concludes a minimum of 5 daily salaats, is acceptable to ALLAAH, swt, because only the minimum number is set in The Qur'aan and that is in verse 2238 and nowhere else. On the other hand, no upper limit is set, the more the merrier because we are urged to remember and commemorate GOD as much as we can.
Peace,
Khalil -
In my opinion any even number equal or greater than 4 which concludes a minimum of 5 daily salaats, is acceptable to ALLAAH, swt, because only the minimum number is set in The Qur'aan and that is in verse 2238 and nowhere else. On the other hand, no upper limit is set, the more the merrier because we are urged to remember and commemorate GOD as much as we can.
Peace,
KhalilSalaamun alayka,
ok thank you handshake
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace Khalil.
You are mixing apples with oranges here. What I meant by "addition not inclusion" was the number of salaats, not their meanings. Salaat is salaat be it salaatulfajr, salaatulmaghrib, and or salaatulWUSTA. What I mean here is that in verse 2238 salaatulwusta is not included in the NUMBER of salaats in "ASSALAWAAT". Whatever the number of "ASSALAWAAT", we need to ADD salaatulwusta to that number to get the total number of DAILY salaats.
Please learn some simple set theory, brother http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory
If you unite ( usage of in the reading) the set {salat al-fajr, salat-al-isha, salat-al-wusta} with the set {salat-al wusta} you clearly get {salat al-fajr, salat-al-isha, salat-al-wusta} again. You see, no problems with three salawat, although I think there are only two fixed times per day. In my view salat-al-wusta is a general desciption of salat and not an own timing.
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Peace Khalil.
Please learn some simple set theory, brother http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory
If you unite ( usage of in the reading) the set {salat al-fajr, salat-al-isha, salat-al-wusta} with the set {salat-al wusta} you clearly get {salat al-fajr, salat-al-isha, salat-al-wusta} again. You see, no problems with three salawat, although I think there are only two fixed times per day. In my view salat-al-wusta is a general desciption of salat and not an own timing.
Dear Timur,
A simple question for you. If the SALAATULWUSTA is included in the SALAWAAT in 2238, then why is it repeated again right after ASSALAWAAT? What is the purpose of ALLAAH, swt, commanding us to safeguard over the SALAWAAT AND the SALLAATULWUSTA.?
Peace,
Khalil -
Personally I've recently become convinced there are only two salats, al-fajr and al-ishaa. My interpretation of Al Wusta has changed after further study and understanding the context of its verse.
This is just a personal conclusion.
I want to note something as well...
Ever notice the verses where Allah asks you to glorify him at certain times?
Then looked at the verses about Salat times?
If you put them together side by side, you might get the 'jist' that I did
Basically, be in Salat/Do Salat ALL THE TIME.
Meaning as much as you can.
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salat and wusta
discussed in detail here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0Thank you for that link, Wakas. Before reading the Quran in greater depth and looking at the other verses, I wondered about salat-ul-wusta as a literal prayer. I've been praying two daily prayer for a while now.
general discussion The point is ultimately not the amount of time you do it though. Allah swt always mentions rememberance of Him (or dare we even say non-literal Her? after all Allah swt is not male or female and male and female is created by Allah swt) and salat might be more than just prayer as such. But there is no point remembering Allah swt if we don't follow through with all other things such as compassion, justice, equality, peacefulness, not twisting our words and disguising the bitterness in them, anti-racism/anti-ethnic superiority complex etc. I mean its all a work in progress, but the point is that we aren't flippant about those other things. The other thing is that people following some hadith could be doing similar things that we are. We always want to rush in and go well some of the Christians, Jews etc, they may believe even if they still believe and follow parts of the Bible, but what about those who follow the hadith very selectively - which means that they don't bring in contentious things like women must wear a headscarf if the Quran doesn't say that plainly there either, so it's not like they twist anything. And I really do not believe that Guidance is not simply knowing to not follow hadith.
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http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00024.%20Salat%20Suad%20Lam%20Waw/25.gif Time Bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance
Time Bound Protocol of Servitude and Allegiance
Sub topic It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day
Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day
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Verse 2238 below determines the minimum number of daily SALAATs (obligatory prayers) we must perform.
Safeguard over the salaatS AND the MIDDLE salaat and stand before GOD devoutly obedient.
The word SALAWAAT in Arabic is a plural noun, must be at least 3.
The word sallaatulWUSTAA means MIDDLE prayer.
SALAWAAT must be at least 4 to have a MIDDLE room for SALAATULWUSTA, i.e. 2, salaatulwustaa, 2.
Therefore, the minimum number of daily sallaats are 2+1(middle prayer)+2=5Peace,
KhalilBesides using the wrong definition of slw in 2238, by your faulty logic, "salat al wusta" is not included in the alleged "4 prayers" mentioned as "salawat". Why would it be mentioned after already including all of them? The "wa" can only be inclusive/an explanation.
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Peace all,
Just to present a different choice that can be added to this poll.
I think that we are asked to straighten (aqeemoo) our relation or relations (salat or slawate) all day long and also part of the night. Also, a balanced relationship is recommended.
Definition of RELATION
1
the act of telling or recounting account
2
an aspect or quality (as resemblance) that connects two or more things or parts as being or belonging or working together or as being of the same kind <the relation of time and space>; specifically a property (as one expressed by is equal to, is less than, or is the brother of) that holds between an ordered pair of objects
3
the referring by a legal fiction of an act to a prior date as the time of its taking effect ?usually used with back
4
a (1) a person connected by consanguinity or affinity relative (2) a person legally entitled to a share of the property of an intestate
b relationship by consanguinity or affinity kinship
5
reference, respect <in relation to>
6
the attitude or stance which two or more persons or groups assume toward one another <race relations>
7
a the state of being mutually or reciprocally interested (as in social or commercial matters)
b plural (1) dealings, intercourse <foreign relations> (2) sexual intercourseWe are also advised to wash and have minimum hygiene when getting in contact with others, thus the verses about cleansing ourselves.
We are also advised to remember the god and his commandments (masajid) while dealing with our relationships, to have straight relations void of any crookedness.
I think also that the verses about the timing are describing an interval of time, not some specific time or times of prayer or calling on the god, which can be done anytime, anywhere, and on any position.
peace
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Besides using the wrong definition of slw in 2238, by your faulty logic, "salat al wusta" is not included in the alleged "4 prayers" mentioned as "salawat". Why would it be mentioned after already including all of them? The "wa" can only be inclusive/an explanation.
A simple question for you; If the SALAAT-ULWUSTA is included in the SALAWAAT in 2238, then why is it repeated again right after ASSALAWAAT? For what purpose ALLAAH, swt, commanding us to safeguard over the SALAWAAT AND the SALLAAT-ULWUSTA?
A simple answer for you; because ALLAAH, swt, is ordaining the MINIMUM number of daily salaats to be five/5.
Peace,
Khalil
