What is Islam?
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Peace muslims and all.
Facts 3 Whether all religion and creatures following the Sunnatullah (Just and Balance)?
Is it then other than Allah's "dni" (ِ that they seek
and to Him submits (Islam - َ
whoever is in the heavens and the earth
willingly or unwillingly
and to Him shall they be returned
(<a href="http//quran.com/4/83">483</a>(<a href="http//quran.com/2/111-115">2111-115</a>
Indeed it's about how we get "salvation" according to the Quran.Just believe in Allah, do good deed (262), and became muttaqin (2177).
Fasiqun etc. |
(minor disobedience) |
(227)(547)Minor disobedience??What's this mean??
Fasiq or fasaqa simply means disbauch, immoral, dissobedient.Fasiqun according to the Quran and indeed there are some similiarity with kafirun and also some differences
Fasiq is term for people who disobey Allah's revelation (259,381),
But term fasiqun is also for people who did bad things (2282, 53) while term kufr is only limited on believe-disbelieve, and didn't care if the person is do bad deed or not.And that's why Allah gave "unconditional" freedom to "l-dni"
not a religion
not Islam
but "l-dni"
(2256)
Yes Allah give liberation for the people to choose what deen (system) they want to follow and not oppress each other deen (laakum deenukum waliyadeen).
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Peace muslims and all.
Indeed it's about how we get "salvation" according to the Quran.Just believe in Allah, do good deed (262), and became muttaqin (2177).
salaam all
Iblis also believes in ALLAAH alone, but he refused to obey the command of Allaah to submit to aadam.
Yes Allah give liberation for the people to choose what deen (system) they want to follow and not oppress each other deen (laakum deenukum waliyadeen).
No!! That's were you're wrong. ALLAAH has granted us free will to, either follow His diyn or to follow Taghuwt.
salaam+
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First and foremost the semitic word DIEN does not mean RELIGION, SECT or SYSTEM.
DIEN = Attitude/Opinion/Judgement (Towards something)The word Dien is commonly found not only in Quran but also in Hebrew Tanakh.
And it has the same meaning both in Quran and Tanakh.Another example A judicial court in ancient israelites time was named as "BEYTH DIN", which mean "House of Judgement".
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_dinNow, regarding the "dienul islam" which has been commonly mis-interpreted as "Religion of Islam", here's a similitude.
In university class, The professor declare
"I will not accept the work of those who are not honest, I will not examine their paper and their exam will be considered as failure".Then a bunch of student decided to create a club named "Honest".
They invented certain rites, instruction and code to be observed by member of the Honest.
They also invented an oath for one to be considered as an Honest.Their promotional message to enlist new member AND also to keep the member stay in the club includes the following
- Only an Honest shall pass the professor's class
- If you want to pass the class you MUST join Honest.
- Member of the other club will not pass the class, because as said by the professor, he will not accept the work of those who are not Honest.
Among the things being teach in Honest includes the following
- That member of Honest are brother (and sister) to one another.
- How to share answer during the exam ONLY to your brother and sister.
- Sharing and copying of materials for their work paper. The Honest have a council of 'knowledgeable' to provide materials for the work paper, some if not all of them include copying of material from the non-Honest, once the material has been approved by the 'Honest Council' the member must put the exact material in their own work paper and consider it as the best and truest answer.
- Those who leave Honest must be put to death for their infidelity of brother/sisterhood.
- Be vigilant of those who are not Honest, as they always wishes the destruction of Honest
The professor however is not stupid, he can easily differentiate the work of those who cheated (although he's a member of Honest club) and those who are truly honest (regardless of which student club they belong to)
In the end only honest students pass the class, regardless of which student club they belong to. And those who has cheated, failed miserably and need to take the same class next year, including those who has been a good member of Honest.
Salam / Peace
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Salaam+ G.Omar
Iblis also believes in ALLAAH alone, but he refused to obey the command of Allaah to submit to aadam
I still didn't understand what is Iblis believe in Allah Alone?? Can you or muslims explain more in detail??
No!! That's were you're wrong. ALLAAH has granted us free will to, either follow His diyn or to follow Taghuwt.
2256
"No force in religion/system"The word "diyn" simply means religion, system and it's not limited with Islam.Unfortunately some sectarian translations input the word "Islam" in the bracket after word "diyn".
1096
"For me my dyn, for you your dyn"This is Al Kafirun.Surah Al Kafirun clearly said if each people must not disturb other's belief instead must focused in own's belief.
Read my whole intepretation of this surah in THIS THREAD
The word Dien is commonly found not only in Quran but also in Hebrew Tanakh.
And it has the same meaning both in Quran and Tanakh.Another example A judicial court in ancient israelites time was named as "BEYTH DIN", which mean "House of Judgement".
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_dinThanks Jafar.Thanks for mentioning Beth din but it usage is different from deen in the Quran
In university class, The professor declare
"I will not accept the work of those who are not honest, I will not examine their paper and their exam will be considered as failure".Then a bunch of student decided to create a club named "Honest".
They invented certain rites, instruction and code to be observed by member of the Honest.
They also invented an oath for one to be considered as an Honest.Their promotional message to enlist new member AND also to keep the member stay in the club includes the following
- Only an Honest shall pass the professor's class
- If you want to pass the class you MUST join Honest.
- Member of the other club will not pass the class, because as said by the professor, he will not accept the work of those who are not Honest.
Among the things being teach in Honest includes the following
- That member of Honest are brother (and sister) to one another.
- How to share answer during the exam ONLY to your brother and sister.
- Sharing and copying of materials for their work paper. The Honest have a council of 'knowledgeable' to provide materials for the work paper, some if not all of them include copying of material from the non-Honest, once the material has been approved by the 'Honest Council' the member must put the exact material in their own work paper and consider it as the best and truest answer.
- Those who leave Honest must be put to death for their infidelity of brother/sisterhood.
- Be vigilant of those who are not Honest, as they always wishes the destruction of Honest
The professor however is not stupid, he can easily differentiate the work of those who cheated (although he's a member of Honest club) and those who are truly honest (regardless of which student club they belong to)
In the end only honest students pass the class, regardless of which student club they belong to. And those who has cheated, failed miserably and need to take the same class next year, including those who has been a good member of Honest.
What is this??
deen in classical arab also reffering to religon.So deen al Islam is still religion/system of Islam.But I understand one point from your explanation.
You said if we want pass the test then we must join HONEST (how poor university is this -[).It's same like ayah 385 if we want get salvation then we must became Muslim. -
salaam all
Iblis also believes in ALLAAH alone, but he refused to obey the command of Allaah to submit to aadam.
No!! That's were you're wrong. ALLAAH has granted us free will to, either follow His diyn or to follow Taghuwt.salaam+
Salaam,
Are you saying that Qur'an-alone muslims iblis?
Believing in God and Believing+submitting to God are two different things.
Regards,
Yuliana -
Minor disobedience??What's this mean??
Fasiq or fasaqa simply means disbauch, immoral, dissobedient.Salam Earthdom,
It is just a simple chart for easy understanding, and I'm focusing on the "iqtidaq" to disobey individually or as a sect (<a href="http//quran.com/30/30-32">3030-32</a>, rather than the act of disobedience (<a href="http//quran.com/4/17-18">417-18</a> and <a href="http//quran.com/2/159-160">2159-160</a> cf. <a href="http//quran.com/9/80">980</a>. You can correct the chart if you like.
Peace.
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Some article to enlighten the meaning of Ad-Din
DIN?this word has been used in various contexts, among them being ascendancy, sovereignty, management, conduct of affairs, ruling power, mastership, ownership, exercise of power, code of law, constitution, law of requital, an order. The Quran has described Islam as Ad-Din, which is generally translated as religion. However, in the light of the above meanings, it should be clear that this is not only incorrect, but distorts and negates the very meaning of din. Islam is not a religion (madhab), and it has never been described as one in the Quran. Islam is a way of life, a system, a code of law. In the external universe Islam signifies the Divine Order that governs life and the movement of the entire universe. The whole purpose of the Quran is to establish a universal order based on the Divinely ordained values of life. This is ad-din; <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm">Islam A Challenge to Religion</a>
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deen in classical arab also reffering to religon.So deen al Islam is still religion/system of Islam.But I
Religion / Sect / Cult is man made ideas..
God's system is called Universal Law / Law Of Nature which no one can breakDien is attitude/opinion/judgement,
Dienul islam = attitude of peace/acceptance/submission
Yawmil Al-Dien = Day Of JudgementMy reference is ancient semitic language.
I might suggest that you read the Hebrew Tanakh and seek out the word Din/Diyn/Dien (ן yourselves, and it really cognates well with Attitude/Judgement/Opinion (towards something).Back to the topic, you can find many recommendation for "attitude of peace/acceptance/submission" as the best attitude in life. From ancient books (tanakh,gospel,tao the ching, Sidharta's teaching, Gita, Quran etc..) up to today's self-help books .
"Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. your kingdom come,
Let your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven."
-- JesusAn example on how Jesus recommend the attitude of islam as recorded in the gospel.
understand one point from your explanation.
You said if we want pass the test then we must join HONEST (how poor university is this -[).It's same like ayah 385 if we want get salvation then we must became Muslim.Correct, thus can you see the similitude?
How ridiculous it is when one said "In order to earn Heaven you must join Islam/Catholicism/Judaism/Orthodoxism << your favorite religion name here >>". -
Peace Muslim
It is just a simple chart for easy understanding, and I'm focusing on the "iqtidaq" to disobey individually or as a sect (<a href="http//quran.com/30/30-32">3030-32</a>, rather than the act of disobedience (<a href="http//quran.com/4/17-18">417-18</a> and <a href="http//quran.com/2/159-160">2159-160</a> cf. <a href="http//quran.com/9/80">980</a>. You can correct the chart if you like.
There is good verses about sectarian 910-9, 4213-14
Your chart is well said and you define well term "muslim" and levels of believer )But I want to ask "What is the meaning of "Iblees Allah Alone"??
DIN?this word has been used in various contexts, among them being ascendancy, sovereignty, management, conduct of affairs, ruling power, mastership, ownership, exercise of power, code of law, constitution, law of requital, an order. The Quran has described Islam as Ad-Din, which is generally translated as religion. However, in the light of the above meanings, it should be clear that this is not only incorrect, but distorts and negates the very meaning of din. Islam is not a religion (madhab), and it has never been described as one in the Quran. Islam is a way of life, a system, a code of law. In the external universe Islam signifies the Divine Order that governs life and the movement of the entire universe. The whole purpose of the Quran is to establish a universal order based on the Divinely ordained values of life. This is ad-din; Islam A Challenge to Religion
Thanks for the link.I already read some parts of G A Parwes's articles.Deen simply means system but it has some universal and wide intepretation
Religion / Sect / Cult is man made ideas..
God's system is called Universal Law / Law Of Nature which no one can breakIn this thread we talking about Islam and we're not talking about God but Allah.
If you confuse between Allah and God, read MINE INTEPRETATION .If you disagree or want some corrent just reply in that thread.Allah's authantic deen is Islam (336), thus Islam is the name of our system.
Peace Jafar
quote author=Jafar link=topic=9605723.msg335363#msg335363 date=1377199383]
Religion / Sect / Cult is man made ideas..
God's system is called Universal Law / Law Of Nature which no one can breakIn this thread we talking about Islam and we're not talking about God but Allah.
If you confuse between Allah and God, read MINE INTEPRETATION .If you disagree or want some corrent just reply in that thread.Allah's authantic deen is Islam (336), thus Islam is the name of our system.
My reference is ancient semitic language.
I might suggest that you read the Hebrew Tanakh and seek out the word Din/Diyn/Dien (ן yourselves, and it really cognates well with Attitude/Judgement/Opinion (towards something).Back to the topic, you can find many recommendation for "attitude of peace/acceptance/submission" as the best attitude in life. From ancient books (tanakh,gospel,tao the ching, Sidharta's teaching, Gita, Quran etc..) up to today's self-help books .
Your actions is similiar with GODSubmitter, tauhid101, youssef434 etc.
Yeah sometime I want to learn the Hebrew language, thus I want search correlation between Hebrew-Arabic, Tanakh-Quran.Salam/Peace
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Fare thee well,
Even if I do not use the word Allah for God I refer to the same being. Islam I use because there is no feasible option in terms of translation because the exact word does not seem to exist in English and Muslim for the same reason. But I use (true) Believer instead of Mu'meen as I consider that the meaning.
Arabic is not a holy language in that regard.
And I use system for deen, which is pretty equal in meaning. And when I talk about Islam I say (God's) religion (which is Islam as system).
God bless you
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But I want to ask "What is the meaning of "Iblees Allah Alone"??
Salam Earthdom.
Thank you for the verses.
Facts 1 Iblees did not prostrate to Adam, and neither the Qur'an tells Iblees prostrate to others.
Without Allah's command, it would be grave disobedience to prostrate to any other than Allah.Facts 2 The Qur'an claims that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah
And to Allah prostrates
whatever is in the heavens
and whatever is in the earth
of every beast
and the Angels
and they do not wax proud
(<a href="http//quran.com/16/49">1649</a>Therefore, Iblees are prostrating to Allah.
Issue Now from the facts of the Qur'an,
Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate to Allah?
Peace.
p/s You can also refer to the <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR_20.htm">end part of his conclusion</a>, where he lists out the differences between "Madhhab" (religion) and "Din", and Allah don't accept any religion, never (<a href="http//quran.com/3/85">385</a> ... and thus, including any reference Islam as a religion. If they claimed Islam is almost equal to religion, then it is not a religion. Simply because almost equal is not equal.
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Salam muslims.
(<a href="http//quran.com/16/49">1649</a>
Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate to Allah?
This verse is a allegorical one.Some Quran verses contains allegorical sentence such like "kill yourself" (254,456), "eat the properties" (218.
The fact is not all creatures especially humans want sujud to Allah.
sujud/sajada not simply means prostation n it's the meaning lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.
So this means we cannot judge so easily if Ibees sujud to Allah.
p/s You can also refer to the end part of his conclusion, where he lists out the differences between "Madhhab" (religion) and "Din", and Allah don't accept any religion, never (385) ... and thus, including any reference Islam as a religion. If they claimed Islam is almost equal to religion, then it is not a religion. Simply because almost equal is not equal.
Yes.Islam is Allah's system and religion is a man made.
Peace )
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Salam muslims.
This verse is a allegorical one.Some Quran verses contains allegorical sentence such like "kill yourself" (254,456), "eat the properties" (218.
The fact is not all creatures especially humans want sujud to Allah.
sujud/sajada not simply means prostation n it's the meaning lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.
So this means we cannot judge so easily if Ibees sujud to Allah.
Yes.Islam is Allah's system and religion is a man made.
Peace )
Salam Earthdom,
It could be many possibilities if we make a conclusion based on "speculations".
Therefore it is proper if we based our argument on facts of the Qur'an. (<a href="http//quran.com/42/10">4210</a>
Thus our main issues are
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Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate* to Allah?
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Can you prove; during the creation of Adam, Iblees prostrate* to other than Allah?
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Can you deny angels prostrate* to Allah and Adam?
- you can insert any proper meaning you like to the word "prostrate" above.
Peace.
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Facts 1 Iblees did not prostrate to Adam, and neither the Qur'an tells Iblees prostrate to others.
Without Allah's command, it would be grave disobedience to prostrate to any other than Allah.Facts 2 The Qur'an claims that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah
And to Allah prostrates
whatever is in the heavens
and whatever is in the earth
of every beast
and the Angels
and they do not wax proud
(1649)Therefore, Iblees are prostrating to Allah.
Issue Now from the facts of the Qur'an,
Can you prove Iblees do not prostrate to Allah?
1649 And to Allah prostrates whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth of creatures, and the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded.The question to ask then is, if they do not fear their Lord above them and do not do what they are commanded, can they still be said to prostrate? Unwilling prostration and willing prostration 1315 etc; another layer to prostration in the bigger picture. Iblis did not prostrate to Allah alone willingly because he disobeyed the command that Allah gave. However, he still prostrates to Allah in the bigger picture as does everything willingly or unwillingly. The plan unfolds as the plan must, whether we are willing or unwilling; the reality remains the same.
peace
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1649 And to Allah prostrates whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth of creatures, and the angels, and they are not arrogant.
1650 They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded.The question to ask then is, if they do not fear their Lord above them and do not do what they are commanded, can they still be said to prostrate? Unwilling prostration and willing prostration 1315 etc; another layer to prostration in the bigger picture. Iblis did not prostrate to Allah alone willingly because he disobeyed the command that Allah gave. However, he still prostrates to Allah in the bigger picture as does everything willingly or unwillingly. The plan unfolds as the plan must, whether we are willing or unwilling; the reality remains the same.
peace
Salam savage_carrot,
Firstly, the scope of our discussion is in relation to the issue of "prostration" and in relation to the story of Iblees and Adam.
Secondly, the verse I have given is the facts that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah.
These are clear facts, and logically speaking, none would not prostrate to The Creator.
However, how they are prostrating to Allah?
Only Allah knows.
My main point is they are prostrating to Allah, including Iblees.
It is so since Allah said "whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth"
What are other facts from the Qur'an?
Iblees is presence with the angels when the command to prostrate to Adam.
What is his rank to be presence during the command?
Is his rank equal to that who would prostate to Allah, or who do not prostrate to Allah?
Peace.
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Firstly, the scope of our discussion is in relation to the issue of "prostration" and in relation to the story of Iblees and Adam.
Cool, so fact 2 by you was related, no?Secondly, the verse I have given is the facts that all living creatures are prostrating to Allah.
Everything prostrates willingly or unwillingly as per 1315.These are clear facts, and logically speaking, none would not prostrate to The Creator.
??However, how they are prostrating to Allah?
Only Allah knows.
They have no choice but to submit to the plan/will of the creator which is another layer in the bigger picture, willingly or unwillingly. e.g. whether they choose to believe in an ultimate judgement or not, it will still come to pass.My main point is they are prostrating to Allah, including Iblees.
Everything is, yes. Whether willingly or unwillingly.It is so since Allah said "whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth"
yes.What are other facts from the Qur'an?
Iblees is presence with the angels when the command to prostrate to Adam.
What is his rank to be presence during the command?
He was a malaika commanded to obey his Lord's directive.Is his rank equal to that who would prostate to Allah, or who do not prostrate to Allah?
He should have but he didn't, like some other malaika who were then stripped of their rank. They chose not to obey, they did not prostrate to Allah willingly but everything prostrates to Allah, the truth, the reality, willingly or unwillingly.I'm kind of confused however, what is the argument from your side? That iblis prostrates to Allah alone as does everything else so...that is enough/not enough? Does the willing or unwilling nature of such prostration not have an effect on us/everything, or is it irrelevant somehow? Is something else needed perhaps or not? Please clarify.
peace
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Everything prostrates willingly or unwillingly as per 1315.
Both red words are not in the Ayah. Relative Pronoun "Man" relates to living. There is conjunction Waw not Auo.
The statement of the translator is patently contrary to ground realities. Billiond of people do not prostrate. The Arabic text does not say what English sentence suggests.
The accusative endings reveal both the words as relating to circumstances in which the act is done.
Be aware; He who is living-exists in the Skies and the Earth submits humbly in surrender; and will acknowledge and submit humbly in surrender for Allah the Exalted; in the states arising on willful acceptance-acknowledgement with reverence; and under compulsion of coercive circumstances.
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Salam savage_carrot,
Everything is, yes. Whether willingly or unwillingly.
yes.
My point Iblees is prostrating to Allah at all material times, and you have agreed.
It does not matter willingly or unwillingly.
What matter is the facts that Iblees is prostrating to Allah, till this moment and forever.
He was a malaika commanded to obey his Lord's directive.
You are saying Iblees is "malaika" (reference?).
Then would it be reasonable to accept the facts that ..
He is prostrating to "Allah Alone" prior to the creation of Adam?
He does not associate anyone with Allah?I'm kind of confused however, what is the argument from your side?
You can refer to post #1
Peace.