Should gay marriage be legal?
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I would like to set a dichotomy between "Same-sex attraction" and the modern label of "Gay"
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First, one has to look at the wording. God did not say to be "Straight/Bi/Gay". That is a made up term, that is not found in any Abrahamic scripture. All of the scriptures site the act itself, they don't define a person by a solidified term as "Straight/Bi/Gay", as society does today.
God in all scriptures states/alludes to Not having sex with the same gender, but he did not say you cannot be attracted to them. This makes a difference -
God knew that some people are going to have some form of attraction to the same gender, That would be a reason why he instructed us to only have sexual relationships with a spouse
Hint If there was no way/inclination that people are going to have same-sex sexual relationships, then there was no need for God to instruct us about it at all. Clearly, God didn't say "Don't like/be attracted to the same gender", he would be saying "Don't FOLLOW UP upon your desire/attraction and consummate them with same-sexual relationships, as you're only allowed to have sexual relationships with your spouse."
Thus, As I believe, having same-sexual attraction, is not the sin itself, it's when that is acted upon and then consummating a same-sexual relationship. I see same-sexual attraction as a test, just like other test. We might have a desire for something which is actually harmful for us, and also, detest something which is beneficial for us (2216) -
God sets a trait of the believers as "Guard/protect their private parts" (235). The Question is, why do we need to guard them for? They must be more vulnerable , for them to have to be protected. The vulnerability could be better seen when you put attraction and love in the picture, which most of the times sets grounds for sexual relationships.
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So by society's standards and definition, I say You can be perfectly Gay (have same-sexual attraction), and still go to heaven, so long as you abstain upon acting upon your desires and have same-sex consummated relationships. This goes for Heterosexuals as well, everyone need to abstain from acting upon their desires (Just look at the story of Joseph and his master's Wife trying to seduce him (Which to note, he fell into, but God protected him nevertheless) (1224). That would be a clear example to why God cited as a trait of the believers "those who protect their private parts" (235). Thus, as a believer, you must protect your private parts, from even your own desires.
I believe this is a more balanced way of thinking, as someone told me.
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Hint If there was no way/inclination that people are going to have same-sex sexual relationships, then there was no need for God to instruct us about it at all. Clearly, God didn't say "Don't like/be attracted to the same gender", he would be saying "Don't FOLLOW UP upon your desire/attraction and consummate them with same-sexual relationships, as you're only allowed to have sexual relationships with your spouse."
Your words imply that you don't consider same-sex partners as real spouses to each other. If attraction is allowed, marriage might be allowed, but if married gay couples are not allowed to have sex with each other, then the marriage can only be something like "skim milk marriage," and if married gay partners are not real spouses to each other, and people are only allowed to have sexual intercourse with their spouses, sexual relationship between gay partners will be considered adultery by God.
Furthermore, what's the merit of same-sex intercourse? It's not valid biologically, since such an act will not have the possibility to produce zygotes. Perhaps the only merit is the physical connection between married same-sex couples, if such is not performed out of lewdness. But should the physical connection not considered sex biologically and not out of lewdness be considered sex legally (in man-made law as well as divine law)?
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BTW, probably I can conduct a research on the biology of same-sex intercourse as an undergraduate, and the biological difference between same-sex intercourse and heterosexual intercourse. It seems that scientists already know some etiology of homosexuality. If I go to med school, I might want to know what disease will sodomy and transgender surgery cause, let alone the transmission of AIDS. I don't think the rectum will respond to the hormones that causes erection of penis and clitoris. Yeah, seriously, I need to improve my organization of argument, and writing (perhaps grammar and idioms since my mother tongue is not English), and take courses on logic in my undergraduate school whatever school I want to attend for my doctorate degree, as long as I want to be a monotheist activist as well.
BTW, is there the technology that identifies which sperm contains X chromosome and which contains Y? -
"You sexually approach men, you commit highway robbery, and you bring all vice to your society." But the only response from his people was to say, "Bring us God's retribution, if you are being truthful!"
"You are approaching the men out of lust instead of the women! No, you are an ignorant people!"
"Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
"You leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!"
They said, "If you do not cease O Lot, you will be among those driven out."
He said, "I am in severe opposition to your acts!"Does God approve of homosexuality? I think that's an obvious NO! Does that give us the right to go gay bashing on Friday night? No. It's between them and God. But no, it's not allowed.
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Well, I mean Quranic law. I told you that my story takes place in an imaginary state which uses Quran as its constitution.
I agree that God destroyed Sodom not only for the gays. The story of Lot is almost always narrated along with those of Noah, Saleh, Hud, Shuayb and Moses, in which towns were destroyed because its people rejected the messengers, and the acknowledging people were saved. Lot did warn his people about awareness of God (26163), and the people did not acknowledge. It can be inferred that Lot's wife committed some other sins, or she didn't acknowledge. She's not necessarily a lesbian. Sodomy in Sodom might be due to extreme lewdness. I construe 780 as the greatest extent of lewdness ever, either homosexual or heterosexual. But if homosexual adultery is not worse than heterosexual adultery, why is men having sex with men so emphasized in the stories of Lot?
1178 His people came rushing towards him, and were accustomed to committing sin. He said, "My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no reasonable man among you?"
1179 They said, "You know we have no interest in your daughters, and you are aware of what we want!"
Other verse might indicate that homosexuality is unnatural.
1672 God has made for you mates from amongst yourselves, and He has made from your mates children and grandchildren, and He has provided you from the good provisions. Do they acknowledge falsehood, while in God's favor they are denying?
26165 "Do you approach the males of the worlds?"
26166 "You leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!"
It indicates that the mates for men are women, not men, and mates for humans must be a member of Homo sapiens. Now, in biology, if two individuals can breed, producing fertile offspring, then the two individuals are from the same species. The mate can be from another subspecies, if any, of Homo sapiens, since they can interbreed and produce fertile offspring.
There is a problem Will God punish anything unnatural?
3030 So establish yourself to the system of monotheism. It is the nature that God has made the people on. There is no changing in God's creation. Such is the pure system, but most people do not know.
If monotheism is natural, then polytheism is unnatural. God will punish those who set up partners, but He asked us to leave it for Him. What about the unnatural sexual orientation? I'm not sure if born gays will be punished for their homosexuality, since even if they're "born" gays, they have the right to recognize their own gender, and they have the right to choose the natural mates, just like people born in polytheist environmental have the right to choose monotheism in spite of all the threats. But I'm sure that you can't justify polytheism by asserting "born polytheism," or polytheism due to mental or genetic illness. If there is an incurable disease causing polytheism, then the patient is doomed to hell, then God must be unjust. Shall we legalize gay marriage in our secular law? I wait for the results from clinical trial.I think with the people of Lot we are dealing with rape and sexual molestation. The verses indicate gang rape as their form of sex.
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I think with the people of Lot we are dealing with rape and sexual molestation. The verses indicate gang rape as their form of sex.
From the research I did a few years ago, this is also my understanding. From memory, homosexuality in itself is not mentioned as a sin in any verse of the Qur'an.
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From the research I did a few years ago, this is also my understanding. From memory, homosexuality in itself is not mentioned as a sin in any verse of the Qur'an.
How do you explain the verses I quoted above? If you're saying it's bad but not a sin... You may have a case (maybe). But if you're saying God is cool with Adam and Steve getting busy... I'd have to disagree. I don't think he's cool with it. Please clarify what you mean.
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How do you explain the verses I quoted above? If you're saying it's bad but not a sin... You may have a case (maybe). But if you're saying God is cool with Adam and Steve getting busy... I'd have to disagree. I don't think he's cool with it. Please clarify what you mean.
In the Quran we are told
And We caused the white cloud to overshadow you and sent down on you the manna and the quails, (saying) Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you - they wronged Us not, but they did wrong themselves. 2.57
And remember ye said "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause. This because they rebelled and went on transgressing. 2.61
Here we are told how the Israelites complained about the food and requested God to give them beans and vegetables when they already were given quail and manna. Moses commented on how the Israelites would prefare the veggies and beans over the meat and actually referred to it as inferior. This argument may make sense for most people but not for a vegetarian who would not see meat as a superior food to eat.
So a heterosexual may understand the verses you quoted. But a homosexual would not understand it that way since his attraction are not for females.
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Salaam,
How do you explain the verses I quoted above? If you're saying it's bad but not a sin... You may have a case (maybe). But if you're saying God is cool with Adam and Steve getting busy... I'd have to disagree. I don't think he's cool with it. Please clarify what you mean.
I'm not saying anything's bad, Aamer. I'm not gay, so I won't make that judgment between "good" and "bad". I'm quite happy sitting on the fence, eating a bunch of grapes.
peace
Sajda.
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Peace Family,
Gay marriage is a secular issue and not a religious issue in America, although I find same
sex partners abhorrent, but God has given us no recourse against gays unless one would
claim Jewish execution called sekila or as my Shi'a friends called it "jagged rocks" execution
or stoning, but in America you can not stone folks legally. Therefore for me it's a non issue
at this time.God bless
peace
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Salaam
There are some people that allow their disgust of sodomy to justify persecuting homosexual men (in particular). I choose not to think about it. I don't find the thought of the heterosexuals "making babies" any more appealing than I do the thought of the homosexuals "making babies". I, personally, however, find lying and cheating and being unjust much more abhorrent than what consenting adults do in their private lives. This is not God's way, so I don't understand why we find all that acceptable and choose not to speak out against it, but yet will "stand on our pulpits" preaching against the gays. I just don't get it. Let God, maliki yaum id-deen, be the Judge, surely?
peace
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Salaam
There are some people that allow their disgust of sodomy to justify persecuting homosexual men (in particular). I choose not to think about it. I don't find the thought of the heterosexuals "making babies" any more appealing than I do the thought of the homosexuals "making babies". I, personally, however, find lying and cheating and being unjust much more abhorrent than what consenting adults do in their private lives. This is not God's way, so I don't understand why we find all that acceptable and choose not to speak out against it, but yet will "stand on our pulpits" preaching against the gays. I just don't get it. Let God, maliki yaum id-deen, be the Judge, surely?
peace
Good point. The issue with homosexuality as that its a behavior and not a character so it does not tell us anything about a person.
I think Aamer was talking about the verses of the Quran regarding what Lot said about the homosexual acts of the people of Lot. What i tried to point out is that homosexuals are not mainstream and represent a minority of males so sometimes we need to take that into account when we consider the Quran since the Quran sometimes talks to different audiences but generally it speaks to mankind as a whole. The Israelites were being stubborn while the people of Lot were being aggressive and violent and arrogant since they thought that they can rape whomever they want. Whether they were homosexuals or not we do not know. Its unlikely the Israelites were vegetarians but were probably just being stubborn so maybe the people of lot are just being assholes (excuse my language). But I believe both Moses and Lot were speaking as normal human beings would speak about food and sex.
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IMPORTANT!
When Science is Context Three Questions Show
The Men of the Quranic Lot Story
Are Heterosexual men not Homosexual menIntroduction
Today, there are many studies showing sexual orientation is not environmentally influenced, but rather individuals are born with a sexual orientation.
See Parts I-IX Below
Applying these studies as an element of context within the Quranic Lot story, the story shows a condemnation of lustful homosexual acts of heterosexual men, and not a condemnation of homosexual acts of homosexual men. In other words, and the thesis of this short article, the men of the Quranic Lot story are heterosexual men not homosexual men. To support this thesis, I will share three commonsensical questions that must be asked about the Quranic Lot story when these studies become part of the story's context.
First Question
The first question that must be asked when these studies become part of the context is found in the Quran verse 781. The verse states,
". . . with lust you approach men instead of women . . ."
(Quran 781, M. Asad)
As seen, this verse uses ?instead of.? This usage shows the men of the Quranic Lot story are heterosexual men. How? Because the question that must be asked with science as context Can homosexual men approach women ?instead of? men?
Second Question
The second question that must be asked when these studies become part of the context is found in the Quran verse 1178. The verse states,
". . . Said "O my people! these daughters of mine they are purer for you ! . . ."
(Quran 1178, M. Asad)
As seen, this verse states that Lot offered his daughters to these men. This offering shows the men of the Quranic Lot story are heterosexual men. How? Because the question that must be asked with science as context Would Lot offer homosexual men his daughters?
Third Question
The third question that must be asked when these studies become part of the context is found in the Quran verse 26166. The verse states,
"keeping yourselves aloof from all the spouses whom your Sustainer has created for you? . . ."
(Quran 26166, M. Asad)
As seen, this verse states God created spouses for these men. This creating of spouses for these men shows the men of the Quranic Lot story are heterosexual men. How? Because the question that must be asked with science as context Would God create women for homosexual men?
Conclusion
When science is context, these three questions are enough to rightly question the long held belief that the Quranic Lot story is a condemnation of homosexual acts of homosexual men rather than a condemnation of lustful homosexual acts of heterosexual men.
Watch the videos and read.
The source
http//www.godists.com/articles/islam_when_science_is_context_three_questions_show_the_men_of_the_quranic_lot_story_are_heterosexual_men_not_homosexual_men