Salat According to the Quran and a Critical Remark

god1quran1

I am not interested if you are honest or not i am interested about how you come to this conclusion using your logical developed argumentative demonstration so i may change my view regarding the term ruku3 in 3824 , and by the way you do not need to be intellectually honest in that matter you need to be physically active and not lazy so you stand up , kneel and prostrate , and glorify your lord , you may be pleased as per 20130 , and you may increase you good deeds as per 11114 , and you may bring yourself closer as per 9619

Quoting what i wrote and dropping some two lines reply under it doesn't make you given a point -by-point response , this is only but a responding competition , you trying to look like you didn't miss anything and that you are following argument by arguments , believe me write a solid valid studied argument and i reply to you if necessary instead of writing competitions.

Which evidence are you talking about , quoting some colored words of the quran from another website and past it here is not enough to say that you used evidence from the quran , try better next time , go and study first and avoid competition .

Your mind is in a way of thinking that doesn't need arguments to be convinced , your mind come to a state of selected choices , i knew this mind strategy , this is why i replied on the beginning that

There is still only two possibilities that you may be convinced to how Solomon (s) fell down in 3824

First Is to return back in time and witness with your eyes .
or
second You wait till you meet him , and ask him ,
even-though I won't be surprised if that two remaining possibilities doesn't convince you either .

appeal for support by using other members name

Don't want to be offensive but you can't give any valid argument , not because you

But because you cannot be any better than this , based on the content of your posts and your why of selecting and choosing and finally based on your pre-believe .

You said it if you find it logical then i am fine , even if it is a trap

Appeal for support by using the term "those"

You better stop wasting your time ,mine and reader's time and go study , i'll respond to any serious valid studied arguments , your post n?44 is just a copy past for competition , for me any next reply from you should only be ranked as something more clearer as you already statde that you

Rank1

So you can't be more clearer as you yourself stated .

or

Rank2 Competition writings

I'll ignore Rank 2 , only one thing left for you go and study

Except for personal attacks, there is nothing in your post worth responding to so I will just stand aside. There are others who I think have better responded to your claims about the meaning of 'rukuh' than I so I will defer to them. And they actually believe in ritual prayers so I hope you will be more receptive to their arguments.

Read posts 45, 59 and 44 for a detailed explanation of why your conclusions about 'rukuh' are just plain wrong.

Peace.

unknownuser

Salaam god1quran1 and Alkitab my respected brothers.

Please slow down don't turned this thread into debate one.While I enjoy studying your posts, then both of you turned it into debate, so it will more made me confused because my english is not as good as yours.

Peace

al-amiyr

Salaam god1quran1 and Alkitab my respected brothers.

Please slow down don't turned this thread into debate one.While I enjoy studying your posts, then both of you turned it into debate, so it will more made me confused because my english is not as good as yours.

Peace

+salaam

I agree! I see valid arguments in the presentations of both brothers. Some issues have been raised that made me ponder as well. It is always interesting to have a look from another perception.

+salaam

cleanfox5982

The allusion (it isnt more than that) towards a made-up history of the pronunciation of the Arabic accusative suffix -an, is also nonsense of epic magnitude and belongs together with the hadiths, Ali Baba and Sindbad, in the corpus of Abbasid fairy tales.

The suffix an is only accurate if it is part of the word what you are pointing to is a dialectics nunation

The suffix an is added to the word rki3 while pronouncing , the suffix doesn't exist in its calligraphy , the (tanwin) is nunation , a tune http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunation

Show me a one single script of the Qura'n from Sana manuscript to now a day that contain the suffix an at the end of the word rki3 , or any describing word with the extension at its end . Then i witness by the name of allah that you never saw me posting here .

There is no relation between r-k-3 and r-k-b and r-k-l and r-k-D.
Why didnt u include r-k-z, r-k-s, r-k-k, r-k-m, r-k-n, r-k-w, r-k-7, and r-k-5?
Furthermore, you dont even have the slightest idea of the etymology of the stem r-k-3, you will be surprised.

These are some slightest ,fine ,thin hint of the root (rk &#1603 in the al-rkbatyeen / The kneel , you may find it interesting

English translation ...braka knelt down on his kneel

. . . . . - - - - . - -

English translation brk camel set down and remain in his place

. ( . . &#1601. .

English translation

B R K .... the camel pleat his legs and stuck his chest and stomach area to the land

http//imageshack.us/a/img90/8693/l6h.gif
The movement of the camel while kneeling down is called brk from the verb brk do the connection if you want with ruk3/ ( kenneling down in your knee )

http//imageshack.us/a/img802/5383/shcv.jpg

brk / camel resting , having a break

From this concept where it comes the English action of break something , as there is a pleating that is taken place , like breaking a stick , you have to pleated it like when the kneel are pleated to set down , the kneel are broken

http//imageshack.us/a/img46/3902/886z.jpg

Your whole reasoning is based on erroneous information and false argumentation. And I will say and point out to these mistakes, whether you like it or not, whether you think its arrogance or not. I dont care.

No i like , so do it , i see you did nothing just repeating sentences , is that all you have ?

There we go, and I will keep it short. Have lots of work to do.

You said nothing , you have been ( short ) not because you have lots work to do but because you do not have more to say

Your translation of 3824 is simply wrong. The translation does not represent the Arabic source text. Now how about that? All following reasoning of yours was therefore systematically erroneous. Its like building a structure on an inherently weak basis. All other following conclusions will show signs of the systematic mistake.

Because you said that

The translation does not represent the Arabic source text.

So you conclud that

All following reasoning of yours was therefore systematically erroneous

Are you sure your are using a academician methodologies and fine research and...it doesn't seem so ...wher is your

study at a renowned university, being subjected to methodologies which have been tested and fine tuned over and over and over again, being exam-ed therein and proving ur competence. Its about ascertainment through research which is subject to sound methodology.

I see nothing of that ..absolutely noting

Raaki3 is an active participle, and means 'bowing'. It doesn't mean 'fell down'.

Its because you said it from your mouth then it's so ?

You sir, are literally polluting this topic.
I could expect it though.

No problem so far , lets have a break (rk &#1603

Mazhar

The following are the verses which disqualifies Mecca as the place of Abraham

Salam, Hafiz;

Question was

What is the name of City where Qur'aan was revealed?

cleanfox5982

I don't know how some poeple think and act , can you kindly leave this thread for what is was meant for , do you have a 0.00000...1% of organisation and order ?

unknownuser

What is the name of City where Qur'aan was revealed?

The Quran does not mention the city by name. It simply refers to it by its title of Umm' ul Qura (lit "Mother / Origin of Urban Settlements&quot, and that Muhammad (P) entered it and preached the Quran in it, to the ears of Jews, Nasara, Sabeans, and pagans. It was a city of very very deep and ancient roots where all these groups and creeds lived together in an amalgam of cultures, and where Jewish foundations were very strong and historical. It is up to us to discover where this city is. But I do know for a fact that it is not in the arid and desolate Hijaz of what they call "Saudi Arabia" today.

It is a city that receives a lot of rain, is located in a geography where there are wild olive trees, fig trees, grape orchards, and pomegranates, and is of high altitude, and surrounded by green mountains. Does the current city of Makkah qualify for these criteria? I don't think it does, nor is there any evidence that current-day Makkah even existed before 400 AD.

Now regarding the names mentioned in the Quran, like Makkah, Bakkah, Badr, Yathrib, Midyan, Misr, Hunayn, and Seena; they are all real places associated with Muhammad (P) and his people, and it is very evident from the Quranic passages that they lived and traveled in their vicinity. However, there is enormous geographical and cultural evidence that these names have been fraudulently projected onto false territories. This evidence awaits the archeological digs which will someday validate them.

And yes...Alkitab is right. We should stick to the topic.

GODsubmitter

Its traditionalism which tries to project their difficulties, their problems, their lack of logics, their fallacies and shortcomings, unto us.

Falling into their trap is very easy when your approach of this subject is not sound and your knowledge limited. Especially methodology is important, knowledge is just an accumulation of data.

Without sound methodology, understanding is impossible.

Perhaps producing so many different interpretations about Salat is also yet another proof that people in general have difficulty in focusing on God Alone...
???

hafeez_kazi

Peace all

It is not sufficient that Quran mentions about Haj, Allah commanded the Prophet (sawa) to demonstrate to the people how it is done.

Only in Ahadith you can understand how Hajj is performed.

I am sorry brother Alkitab and others. I should not have responded to tashayyu in this thread on the subject of HAJJ.

These are some slightest ,fine ,thin hint of the root (rk &#1603 in the al-rkbatyeen / The kneel , you may find it interesting

English translation ...braka knelt down on his kneel

. . . . . - - - - . - -

English translation brk camel set down and remain in his place

. ( . . &#1601. .

English translation

B R K .... the camel pleat his legs and stuck his chest and stomach area to the land

The movement of the camel while kneeling down is called brk from the verb brk do the connection if you want with ruk3/ ( kenneling down in your knee )

Dear Alkitab

I never contemplated on the word RUKU and always believed that it is a 90 degree curve of the body to the front, and this word was never a part of my research. However your definition of RUKU as KNEELING has further strengthened my belief that the present RITUAL SALAT is an invention. (who invented and when and why, is a mystery, which only Allah knows)

Thanks

unknownuser

who invented and when and why, is a mystery, which only Allah knows

The ones who invented the ritual Salat are the same ones who invented the story of Muhammad riding the winged horse to the 7th Heaven and receiving the prayer obligation.

I'll give you a clue They call it Namaz in their language.

And I fully agree that Ruk3 (in the physical sense) means to sit down on one's knees, and not to bend at the waist.

Peace.

cleanfox5982

Peace all

I am sorry brother Alkitab and others. I should not have responded to tashayyu in this thread on the subject of HAJJ.

Dear Alkitab

I never contemplated on the word RUKU and always believed that it is a 90 degree curve of the body to the front, and this word was never a part of my research. However your definition of RUKU as KNEELING has further strengthened my belief that the present RITUAL SALAT is an invention. (who invented and when and why, is a mystery, which only Allah knows)

Thanks

Salam Brother ,

No prob .

The present official ritual Salah that is done in mosques or the one described in hadith books is a distortion or a deformation of how was the salah done before , i fully believe that we can extract how it was from the qur'an
the 90? inclination and stand up again is about ridiculing it and is about deform it from a way of symbolizing the humility through the body towards the creator , and also and that's is important the movement that are done in salah as understood from the quran is for the objective to create / a fixed state , there should be no counting or prescribed repeated movements , that all affect two major things required in salah al-Qunt / a constant or immobile state and concentration al-khush3 , which someone can never achieve with the present official way of doing the Salah .

The ones who invented the ritual Salat are the same ones who invented the story of Muhammad riding the winged horse to the 7th Heaven and receiving the prayer obligation.

The 90? inclination most probably has a Persian root , its was a salutation to their kings as i read from some sources .

And I fully agree that Ruk3 (in the physical sense) means to sit down on one's knees, and not to bend at the waist.

Peace.

Thanks for your view .

I think it was reduced to a one knee during the roman empire ) and then infiltrated to roman Christianity as this is thier way of kneeling .

http//imageshack.us/a/img30/5766/b42g.jpg

Statue called Angel Garden Outdoor Yard Decor Kneeling Praying

http//imageshack.us/a/img28/1526/emn4.jpg

To be continued

Zulf

...is for the objective to create / a fixed state , there should be no counting or prescribed repeated movements , that all affect two major things required in salah al-Qunt / a constant or immobile state and concentration al-khush3 , which someone can never achieve with the present official way of doing the Salah .

After the initial days when I was new to the namaz style prayer, I realized that I cannot get a feeling of connection with anything spiritual or deep when doing the namaz. Actually, I usually just wanted to get over with the namaz (in the mosque) so that I could go home and pray (for real). Namaz was just a show and all focus was on coordinated movements, even when you knew the movements well. To me, namaz is very materialistic and unspiritual.

What you wrote above makes perfect sense to me. I don't care if it is correct or not in the context of Salah... because it is true nevertheless in a practical sense. Qunuut and Khushuu3 makes it possible to go deep within and open up to spiritual levels. Namaz keeps you at a very disconnected and material level.

I loved to hear someone say this!

Peace

diamantinehoneybunch

Hello everyone ^_^

I think the salat article on Free-minds should be edited!

This way to perform salat makes sense to me now.

Thank you very much to the contributors on this thread especially AlKitaab

Regards,
Yuliana

Man_of_Faith

Salaam,

Perhaps this forum has made some further breakthroughs in understanding the Truth. Good work!

I had suspected for quite a while that the prayer is intended to be more of a meditation than the salat traditionalists perform. I had previously worked on making the salat less ritualistic and more about meditation and this may prove I was not doing wrong. It is true that concentration is very important during salat, and the counting and moves distract the practitioner quite much. Focus on what you are really intended to do with the salat instead, like establishing a connection.

God bless you

cleanfox5982

Salam All ,

Continuation of the argument n?1

Part two of the word Ruk3

The word Ruk3 consist of two roots Ru k 3

First root rk Ruk3 , i already showed what the root rk stand for and how is it connected to the meaning of Ruk3 mean kneeling on the ground .
Second root k3 Ruk3
What does the root k3 stand for and how is it connected to the physical movement of Ruk3 / kneeling ?

We read in the qur'an the usage of the root k3 in some words , notably

al-ka3bah

5 - 97

597{ Allah has made the Ka?bah, the inviolable House, standing for the people and the inviolable months and the gifts and the garlands . That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.}

Ka3bah is the prominent place made as inviolable house

al-ka3bayeen

5 - 6

56 { O you who have believed, when you rise to Salah, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.}

http//imageshack.us/a/img208/6263/c3bj.jpg

ka3b is the prominent bones at the ankles , and k3 is the prominent bones after the hand known in English as the wrist bone . Notice the pronunciation of other prominent bones .

k3b

78 - 33

7833 {And voluptuous women of equal age}

k3b women with prominent full breasted shape..etc

As we see the root k3 has a physical connection with being prominent

prom?i?nence
pr?mnns/Valider
noun
1.
the state of being important or famous.
"she came to prominence as an artist in the 1960s"
synonyms fame, celebrity, eminence, preeminence, importance, distinction, greatness, note, notability, prestige, stature, standing, position, rank More
2.
the fact or condition of standing out from something by physically projecting or being particularly noticeable.
"radiographs showed enlargement of the right heart with prominence of the pulmonary outflow tract"

Many of the prominent bones at the arms and the foot has the root k3 as part of its names , as this bones are prominent , we notably remark the ankles (al-ka3bayeen ) pair of ka3bb and the wrist bone ( al-k3ayen) , pair of k3

What is the connection with the movement of Ruk3 and the two prominent bones ka3b / ankles and k3 / wrist bone

We saw in the previous post that the root rk in the movement of Ruk3 is connected to the movement of al-rukbatyeen / The knees single of rukbah / The knee , its evident that when someone is kneeling to the ground he has to use his hand as support as it's harmful to kneel down on the ground from a standing position with no hand support unlike the animals human use their hands , so it i evident that the hands are used most precisely the pressure and the articulation is on the and al-k3 / wrist bone , also there is pressure and articulation on the ka3b / ankles .

So there are two root that are in the word Ruk k3 indicate two movement one following the other

**First the movement legs with the pleating ( breaking )of the knees al-rukbatyen

** second the movement of arms through the support and the articulation of the wrist bone al-k3

There is also support and base from al-b3 and al-kurs3 and al-3arkb see the image above for demonstration .

Salat is prescribed to be done 3 times per day (morning, evening, and night).

Yes correct , two definite time + The night ( can have as many salah as someone can or wish )

And it is as follow

http//imageshack.us/a/img802/1065/52g0.jpg

To be continued ...with argument n?2

Mazhar

Salaam,

Perhaps this forum has made some further breakthroughs in understanding the Truth. Good work!

I had suspected for quite a while that the prayer is intended to be more of a meditation than the salat traditionalists perform. I had previously worked on making the salat less ritualistic and more about meditation and this may prove I was not doing wrong. It is true that concentration is very important during salat, and the counting and moves distract the practitioner quite much. Focus on what you are really intended to do with the salat instead, like establishing a connection.

God bless you

What type of a noun is

How can it be related to meditation?

Have you seen some stupid fellow meditating while standing still on two feet?

GODsubmitter

Salam All ,

Continuation of the argument n?1

Part two of the word Ruk3

The word Ruk3 consist of two roots Ru k 3

First root rk Ruk3 , i already showed what the root rk stand for and how is it connected to the meaning of Ruk3 mean kneeling on the ground .
Second root k3 Ruk3
What does the root k3 stand for and how is it connected to the physical movement of Ruk3 / kneeling ?

We read in the qur'an the usage of the root k3 in some words , notably

al-ka3bah

5 - 97

597{ Allah has made the Ka?bah, the inviolable House, standing for the people and the inviolable months and the gifts and the garlands . That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.}

Ka3bah is the prominent place made as inviolable house

al-ka3bayeen

5 - 6

56 { O you who have believed, when you rise to Salah, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.}

http//imageshack.us/a/img208/6263/c3bj.jpg

ka3b is the prominent bones at the ankles , and k3 is the prominent bones after the hand known in English as the wrist bone . Notice the pronunciation of other prominent bones .

k3b

78 - 33