Worship Allah and not the Quran

muslims

You can not just dismiss what hawk said by using the relativistic words 'according to your understanding', you should focus on what he is arguing and give an answer.

Salam,

I did, but I believe he choose to rely on dogma and fallacy, instead of the actual word of Allah. There is no compulsion for him to accept my argument.

In English Deen = religion

Salam hawk99,

Is this your argument? )

"Madhab" is religion.
"Deen" is not "Madhab".
Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.

Why?

Peace peace

hawk99

Peace hawk99,

You are right, according to your understanding.

Peace brother.

Not only my understanding, but by the folks who speak and understand English, who
you are trying but failing to communicate with in this forum, don't be so brickwall

= chair = two different languages, still a chair

= rug = two different languages, still a rug

Salam hawk99,

Is this your argument?

"Madhab" is religion.
"Deen" is not "Madhab".
Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.

No that was not my argument, those are your words not mine. nope

God bless

peace

muslims

Salam Nazzam

Similarly..

Human beings understood Allah as God, among other gods.
Surah 112 said Allah is not equivalent to "God" (One... Nor is there to Him any equivalent)
Therefore, Allah is God. (among gods?)

Can you see what's wrong with your conclusion?

Peace

muslims

No that was not my argument, those are your words not mine. nope

Salam

Please refer to the dictionary and root words for "Deen" and "Madhab".

So that you can see your conclusion is not corroborated with the actual premise for religion and deen.

Therefore, it is false conclusion (no. 3; ie. your conclusion).. a dogma.

Peace brother.

muslims

Peace.

Not only my understanding, but by the folks who speak and understand English, who you are trying but failing to communicate with in this forum, don't be so brickwall

those are your words not mine. nope

Do you know which is the premise and the conclusion (argument)?

Don't confuse the "premise" with the "argument" (conclusion, no.3).

http//z5.ifrm.com/30336/15/0/f5229388/argument.png

"Madhab" is religion. <- Premise 1
"Deen" is not "Madhab". <- Premise 2

Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English. <- Your argument, conclusion
Human beings understood Allah as God, among other gods. <- Premise 1
Surah 112 said Allah is not equivalent to "God(s)" <- Premise 2
(One... Nor is there to Him any equivalent)

Therefore, Allah is God. (among gods?) <- Nazzam's argument, conclusion

hawk99

Salam,

If I have no other choice and need to choose at least one sect in order to free myself from all other sects, the least is to be identified as Muslim Atheism, since to be called as just a "Muslim" is very misleading and competitive. confused

Peace.

Sects are condemned by God, don't pick one.

You say "Muslim atheism is a theological position in which the belief in religion
is rejected or absent but the teachings of the Quran are followed; My Definition

Having your own language can create unnecessary misunderstandings and confusion
that is my point.

You say,

"Madhab" is religion. <- Premise 1
"Deen" is not "Madhab". <- Premise 2

Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English. <- Your argument, conclusion

Again not my words, those are your words not mine. nope

Not only are you making up your own definitions, you also ascribe conclusions to me!
I'm a big boy I can speak for myself! I don't need you to draw conclusions for me!

God bless

peace

muslims

Again not my words, those are your words not mine. nope

Salam hawk99

Okay, you don't understand "Critical Thinking" and how to use proper reasoning.

You prefer the traditional thinking method, the dogmatic thinking method.

Understood! handshake

I'm a big boy I can speak for myself! I don't need you to draw conclusions for me!

In English Deen = religion

Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.

Peace brother.

hawk99

Salam hawk99

Okay, you don't understand "Critical Thinking" and how to use proper reasoning. You are using traditional thinking.

Peace brother.

Peace Muslims,

You make up your own definitions, but I'm the one not using proper reasoning?
I think it's impolite to laugh at someone, but you're pushing me.

God bless

peace

sword_of_tashayyu

Y
ou do. Even more than you think. Your whole shia doctrine is defined by interaction with the ahl al-hadith, and it wasn't chrystallized until well into the 18th century.

Our school is ancient, you must be a fool. lol

Prove it to me that our school did not chrystallize until 18th century..hahahaa

hawk99

Next question, do you believe that our Master Mustafa (sawa) is infallible?

Peace sword of tashayyu,

We only have one master

Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens
and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?

God bless

sword_of_tashayyu

Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens
and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?

You take Quran literally, lol.

Master because he will intercede for his followers, and Master is a sign of respect, Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said Man Kuntum Mawla Fahaza Aliyyun Mawla. Prophet Muhammad (sawa) is my Master and Allah is my creator Lord.

hawk99

Peace sword of tashayyu,

Again I am tempted to bring out the rotfl, are you joking? 2/107 is a metaphor?
Oh boy

God bless you

diamantinehoneybunch

Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens
and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?

You take Quran literally, lol.

Master because he will intercede for his followers, and Master is a sign of respect, Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said Man Kuntum Mawla Fahaza Aliyyun Mawla. Prophet Muhammad (sawa) is my Master and Allah is my creator Lord.

You come here just to force people to commit idolatry like you do.

Human being cannot intercede for other human beings.

nonplus

Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens
and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?

You take Quran literally, lol.

Master because he will intercede for his followers, and Master is a sign of respect, Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said Man Kuntum Mawla Fahaza Aliyyun Mawla. Prophet Muhammad (sawa) is my Master and Allah is my creator Lord.

God is asking you if you recognize that "you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master", and you answer to that is "NO, Mohammad is my Master"? Gutsy!

Nazzam

Y
Our school is ancient, you must be a fool. lol

Prove it to me that our school did not chrystallize until 18th century..hahahaa

You are asking me to prove stuff you have to know yourself )

No your 'school' (define school? LOL!) is not ancient, its relatively new.

The shia doctrine could only crystallize after the Safavids (16th century) and would reach its conclusion around its demise in the 18th century.

Shi'ism was a politico-religious discourse, which was not strictly defined or sharply demarcated along schematic principles. It had a fairly stable set of core principles, but its theology was very diverse and wouldnt form into what we call the 'ja'fariya school' until way into the 1700's.

You are just as shocked as sunni's who go system-error when you confront them with the fact that their hadith collections DO NOT HAVE ORIGINAL SOURCE TEXTS, and that the oldest sahih of Bukhari, is in fact a 13th century Mamluke document by the hands of imam al Yunini.

Do not think its very different with your shi'ite sect, in fact, you are even worse off.

Have a nice day )

Nazzam

Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens
and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?

You take Quran literally, lol.

Master because he will intercede for his followers, and Master is a sign of respect, Prophet Muhammad (sawa) said Man Kuntum Mawla Fahaza Aliyyun Mawla. Prophet Muhammad (sawa) is my Master and Allah is my creator Lord.

We are no scripturalists, you as a shia copy-cat who like to halfheartedly steal from the mutazila, should know that.

Only God is our master, and thats it.

As for the translation of 2107, it is erroneous. It is 'guardian or helper' and not 'lord and master'.I know that this translation has been copied from masjidtucson, which belongs to the submitter sect, dont do that. Keep it scientifically justified.

Arabic

http//c00022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/2_107.png

As for your hadith; its fake.

Nazzam

Salam,

I did, but I believe he choose to rely on dogma and fallacy, instead of the actual word of Allah. There is no compulsion for him to accept my argument.

Peace peace

There is no 'word of Allah', just as there is no 'hand of Allah' or 'face of Allah'.

These are metaphorical.

kgwithnob

There is no 'word of Allah', just as there is no 'hand of Allah' or 'face of Allah'.

These are metaphorical.

Highlight above is from me.

96,

And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

How do you interpret, just for example, the above verse among many others regarding the word of ALLAAH?

Peace,
Khalil

muslims

Peace Muslims,

You make up your own definitions, but I'm the one not using proper reasoning?
I think it's impolite to laugh at someone, but you're pushing me.

God bless

peace

Peace hawk99

Seriously, I don't understand the significance of your objection. I have given you the format to show the flaw in your argument and you do not understand what it means. You are even making claims that the English translation is more accurate than the Qur'an, and without any valid reasons.

Allah never asked me to believe in the translation.

There is only one Qur'an, and it is in Arabic. It is not in English.

Main issue

muslims Arabic Qur'an without deviance (392

an Arabic Qur'an
without any deviance
that they might become righteous
(392

hawk99 Relying on the English translation as more accurate than the Arabic Qur'an

muslims Therefore, this is our issue

If you all are referring to a language other than english, Islam may mean many things,
but in English, Islam refers to a religion

Arabic is a "language other than English".

Therefore and according to you, "Islam may mean many things" in Arabic language.

hawk99 You repeat on the importance of English translation over the Arabic Qur'an

muslims Conclusion to your argument

Is this your argument?

"Madhab" is religion.
"Deen" is not "Madhab".
Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.

Why?

Who cares what it means in English.

Allah never asked me to believe in the translation.

There is only one Qur'an, and it is in Arabic. It is not in English.

You are unable to identify what is an argument and blame on me for your inability to understand the process of identifying sound argument

In English Deen = religion

Salam hawk99,

Is this your argument?

"Madhab" is religion.
"Deen" is not "Madhab".
Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English.

No that was not my argument, those are your words not mine. nope

Please refer to the dictionary and root words for "Deen" and "Madhab".

So that you can see your conclusion is not corroborated with the actual premise for religion and deen.

Therefore, it is false conclusion (no. 3; ie. your conclusion).. a dogma.

I helped you to identify what is an argument and premises.

Do you know which is the premise and the conclusion (argument)?

Don't confuse the "premise" with the "argument" (conclusion, no.3).

http//z5.ifrm.com/30336/15/0/f5229388/argument.png

"Madhab" is religion. <- Premise 1
"Deen" is not "Madhab". <- Premise 2

Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English. <- Your argument, conclusion

If you all are referring to a language other than english, Islam may mean many things,
but in English, Islam refers to a religion

In English Deen = religion

You repeat and seem unfamiliar with the process of identifying sound argument.

You say,

"Madhab" is religion. <- Premise 1
"Deen" is not "Madhab". <- Premise 2

Therefore, Deen is religion (Madhab) in English. <- Your argument, conclusion

Again not my words, those are your words not mine. nope

Not only are you making up your own definitions, you also ascribe conclusions to me!
I'm a big boy I can speak for myself! I don't need you to draw conclusions for me!

There is no need for further discussion since you don't understand proper reasoning. It is just a dogma.

Okay, you don't understand "Critical Thinking" and how to use proper reasoning.

You prefer the traditional thinking method, the dogmatic thinking method.

Understood! handshake

You're never going to change my mind by repeating irrelevant premises and throwing false assumptions. How about giving me a logical argument that might persuade me to understand?

Ibrahim was not a Jew <- <- Ibrahim has no religion, so as Muhammad. Nonsectarian.
nor a Christian http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png
but he was (an) upright (man) <- showing a great concern for what is right, fair and truthful way
a Muslim <- Muslim = an upright man - a Muslim is defined by the above ayat
and he was not one of the polytheists <- Sectarianism
(367) Concern with right/wrong in religious matters - 3030-32

Why Muhammad was not a Jew or Christian?

Did he reject Allah's books?

God bless peace

muslims

There is no 'word of Allah', just as there is no 'hand of Allah' or 'face of Allah'.

These are metaphorical.

Salam

You are diverting to another issue.

What happens to your argument/conclusion?

What are the premises to counter Sura 112?

Human beings understood Allah as God, among other gods. <- My Premise 1
Surah 112 said Allah is not equivalent to "God(s)" <- My Premise 2
(One... Nor is there to Him any equivalent)

Therefore, Allah is God. (among other gods?) <- Nazzam's argument, conclusion (flaw)

Peace

La Illah Ila Allah
There is no god, there is only Allah.