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  4. Gay and Muslim?

Gay and Muslim?

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  • U Offline
    U Offline
    unknownuser
    wrote on last edited by
    #226

    Salam brother muslims.

    No offense.Your theory is smart, but you may re-consider again, is another members understand your theories?

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    • N Offline
      N Offline
      newmoon
      wrote on last edited by
      #227

      My homosexuality is something that has often made me question if the Koran really came from God. And I still have not been able to reconcile my faith with my sexuality.

      Being gay, I can tell you that it's NOT a matter of choice. But for someone who is not gay, you can never really expect that they would understand you. They simply can't. Why? Because they are not gay.

      If I tell you today - start getting attracted to guys...right now...the way you get attracted to girls - will you be able to do it? I tell you to be emotionally attracted to men and not women - will you be able to do it? I show you a picture with a hot guy and a hot girl - will you be able to stop yourself from getting attracted to the hot girl....and instead get attracted to the hot guy?

      And because you will not be able to do this, what if I then announce that you have a disease and that you are abnormal and against nature? How would you feel?

      These are questions that many straight guys will not have the brain cells to understand or appreciate.

      On one hand I feel inclined towards the Koran for multiple reasons....and then on one hand I struggle with the fact that I'm gay...and I didn't choose to be this way. So why did God make most people straight and me gay? Why are all the laws for straight couples and nothing about gay couples? Why? Why? Why? Is that not unfair? Isn't God supposed to be Just?

      Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality.

      It is indeed the decree of the Lord of worlds- Allah through our soul to the mind saying that

      "You should be normal heterosexual as I have created initially Adam and his companion, and further created offsprings through mates."

      against the brain to the mind that

      "Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality"

      3511 And God created you from dust, then from a seed, then He made you into pairs.

      396 He created you from one person, then He made from it its mate.

      2678 ?The One who has created us, He will guide us.?

      Anyways...coming to the Koran...I'm quite confused. People from Answering Islam say that the Koran must be wrong because it says that there were no gays before Lot's people! Now how do you answer this? You may answer that it was LOT who said this and NOT God...and messengers are human beings like us so Lot did not have enough knowledge about the world and said this in error. I really don't know.

      Sometimes I feel that the Koran is talking about bisexuals...as it talks about people LEAVING females and going for males...bisexuals can CHOOSE where they want to get sexual gratification from. I used to think there are no bisexuals until I met a few bisexual friends. They are INDEED attracted to both the sexes in the same way.

      Yet some verses seem to clearly imply that homosexual acts are sins. Whenever the Koran talks about people of Lot, it ALWAYS mentions the sexual acts. A few other verses do mention other things..robbery etc...but sexual stuff remains the KEY sin.

      And that's the reason why I do not plan to settle down with a guy. And that's also the reason why I am seeking a lesbian to get married to...a marriage of convenience...I want to fit in with the society. IF ONLY the Koran had approved of homosexuality, I would have lived my life my way and cared a fudge about what other people said. The Koran is also totally silent on lesbianism.

      Some people argue that the Koran also does not mention any punishment for rape...so does that mean rapes are allowed? So how can you say the same about homosexual acts?

      Have I found the answers? No I haven't. And I probably never will, until God chooses to reveal something to me, or until I'm resurrected.

      God bless....

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        muslims
        wrote on last edited by
        #228

        Salam brother muslims.

        No offense.Your theory is smart, but you may re-consider again, is another members understand your theories?

        Salam brother Earthdom

        I believed many understand the ideas and meaning of Salah. It is explained in another thread, and

        "IQRA bismi rabbikalla dhi khalaq"
        "READ in the name of your Lord who created" <- refer to 11, "Alhamdu"
        (961) (not in our name or interest, or goals)

        Peace brother.

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        • L Offline
          L Offline
          Lena
          wrote on last edited by
          #229

          Peace I have just watched a news item on Al Jazeera about Germany accepting intersex as a gender on birth certificates for those who are born with mixed genitalia or genitalia that cannot be determined as either male or female. Australia already has this category of gender. Advocacy from adults who were born intersex was not to be operated on until the person is mature enough to make their own decision about the sex they wish to be or they may decide against any operation and to remain intersex. Are there any verses in the Quran that would enable the possibility of an intersex gender or are male & female the only gender categories in Quran? Does homosexuality include those who are born intersex in gender if they choose to remain intersex?

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Man_of_Faith
            wrote on last edited by
            #230

            Salaam,

            I am rambling with absolute truth. We can see about it who will be the one abiding in Hell. Let us wait and see.

            God bless you

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            • G Offline
              G Offline
              GODsubmitter
              wrote on last edited by
              #231

              This worldly life is no more than vanity and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the real life, if they only knew.

              This worldly life is no more than play and vanity. But if you believe and lead a righteous life, He will reward you, without asking you for any money.

              Know that this worldly life is no more than play and games, and boasting among you, and hoarding of money and children. It is like abundant rain that produces plants and pleases the disbelievers. But then the plants turn into useless hay, and are blown away by the wind. In the Hereafter there is either severe retribution, or forgiveness from GOD and approval. This worldly life is no more than a temporary illusion.

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                Man_of_Faith
                wrote on last edited by
                #232

                This worldly life is no more than vanity and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the real life, if they only knew.

                This worldly life is no more than play and vanity. But if you believe and lead a righteous life, He will reward you, without asking you for any money.

                Know that this worldly life is no more than play and games, and boasting among you, and hoarding of money and children. It is like abundant rain that produces plants and pleases the disbelievers. But then the plants turn into useless hay, and are blown away by the wind. In the Hereafter there is either severe retribution, or forgiveness from GOD and approval. This worldly life is no more than a temporary illusion.

                Very true my friend, so why are we fighting here over what?

                And these two verses only confirm what I was "rambling" about for hours last night. God's "Word" is as simple as that and "Man cannot live by words alone but through hard work".

                God bless you

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  muslims
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #233

                  I am rambling with absolute truth. We can see about it who will be the one abiding in Hell. Let us wait and see.

                  Salam

                  "Absolute truth"? Nice! yes

                  Further, nothing that surprised me since I don't have to wait and see because I always expecting Hell and pray for Allah to show me the way; La Hawla wa La Quwwata Illa Billaah, "there is no power nor might except by Allah". I know nothing and cannot save myself from sin and shirk (refer here and here).

                  Other than the Sunni and Shia, I can't image anyone reading the Qur'an, claiming absolute truth without any reference to the Qur'an and be able to expect Paradise.

                  Do the people think that they will be left to say
                  "We believe" and they will not be tried?
                  (292)

                  Or do you think that you will enter Paradise
                  while such has not yet come to you
                  as came to those who passed on before you?

                  They were
                  touched by poverty
                  and hardship
                  and were shaken

                  until messenger and those who believed with him said <- even the Messenger almost fails with Allah's test
                  "When is the help of Allah ?"

                  (2214)

                  actual facts...

                  Say, "Shall we inform you
                  of the greatest losers as to deeds?
                  those whose effort is lost in worldly life
                  while they think that they are doing well in work"
                  Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord
                  and in meeting Him
                  so their deeds have become worthless
                  and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance
                  That is their recompense - Hell
                  for what they denied and they took My signs and My messengers in ridicule
                  (18103-106)

                  Peace peace

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Man_of_Faith
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #234

                    Salaam,

                    All that I said is Knowledge contained in Qur'an and I spoke the Message using God's pen which never runs dry. You parrot ayats from the Quran which does not counter my arguments but rather simply confirms what I said, so I am not sure where you are aiming?

                    As we Swedes say "I think you are out bicycling".

                    God bless you

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      muslims
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #235

                      Anyway, since when did God forbid as from having opinions as long as we follow His main criteria? When? When? It smells conjecture and military style god.

                      We follow a sectarian path where opinions are not allowed.

                      All that I said is Knowledge contain in Qur'an and I spoke the Message using God's pen which never runs dry.

                      RED is mine

                      Salam

                      See how you contradict your own statements, every time!

                      Do you read your own writing? yes

                      Peace peace

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Man_of_Faith
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #236

                        Salaam,

                        Yes, I know what I write, but it seems you cannot interpret English. How does those two quotations contradict each other? They mean exactly the same practically.

                        God bless you

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          muslims
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #237

                          Salam

                          You know well what you really are.

                          Peace. peace

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Man_of_Faith
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #238

                            Salaam,

                            Yes I feel pretty comfortable about who I am. Do you?

                            God bless you

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                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              muslims
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #239

                              Salam

                              I guess we can't really blame Bukhari & Co.

                              Peace

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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                Man_of_Faith
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #240

                                Salaam,

                                I have asked several times what kind of evidence you have from God that gays are not Muslims and you have only come up with ad hominem so far and accused me of the same.

                                And so I will ask another question about the Message; do you not believe that good behavior is the most important parameter in faith other than belief in God and His realm?

                                It is a very important aspect of your true misunderstanding of the whole point and I feel sorry for you if you do not agree with the above question.

                                And please do not evade my questions with other nonsense like posting ayats which only agree with my writings or saying that writings contradict each other while they are just heavy paraphrases with another point of view.

                                And where did you get Mr. Bukhari from now?

                                God bless you

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                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  muslims
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #241

                                  I have asked several times what kind of evidence you have from God that gays are not Muslims and you have only come up with ad hominem so far and accused me of the same.

                                  Salam

                                  Really?

                                  Okay, so you don't read and only argues.

                                  refer here...

                                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340460#msg340460

                                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340385#msg340385

                                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340409#msg340409

                                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340409#msg340409

                                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605924.msg340242#msg340242

                                  OR maybe because of...

                                  And you cannot guide the blind away from their error
                                  You will only make hear
                                  those who believe in Our verses
                                  so they are Muslims
                                  (3053)

                                  Secondly,

                                  And so I will ask another question about the Message; do you not believe that good behavior is the most important parameter in faith other than belief in God and His realm?

                                  REFER HERE

                                  It always require both

                                  iman and amal
                                  faith (creed or decisive belief) and action (behaviour)

                                  to make someone muslim or non-muslim.

                                  That's why the words "believed and done righteous deeds" is always put together in the Qur'an (REFER HERE)

                                  Question/Issue of this thread

                                  I wanted to ask if a person can be gay and Muslim?

                                  Conclusion

                                  being a gay and with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslim (refer here)
                                  but being a gay with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a gay and disobey Allah is a non-muslim (refer here)

                                  Reasons

                                  Those who believe
                                  and do righteous good deeds

                                  there is no sin on them
                                  for what they ate

                                  if they fear Allah
                                  and believe
                                  and do righteous good deeds

                                  and again
                                  fear Allah
                                  and believe

                                  and once again
                                  fear Allah
                                  and do good deeds

                                  with Ihsan (perfection)

                                  And Allah loves the good-doers
                                  (593)

                                  Except for those who repent
                                  correct themselves
                                  hold fast to Allah
                                  and are sincere in their deen for Allah <- requires understanding
                                  for those will be with the believers
                                  And Allah is going to give the believers a great reward
                                  (4146)

                                  There is not upon the weak
                                  or upon the ill
                                  or upon those who do not find anything to spend any discomfort
                                  when they are sincere
                                  to Allah and His Messenger
                                  There is not upon the doers of good any cause
                                  And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful
                                  (991)

                                  And cause not corruption upon the earth
                                  after its reformation
                                  And invoke Him in fear and aspiration
                                  Indeed, the mercy of Allah
                                  is near to the doers of good
                                  (756)

                                  Indeed, Allah does not allow to be lost the reward
                                  of the doers of good
                                  (9120)

                                  and there are various "degrees for the doers of good", each action are independent and depends on the particular situation, and known only by that person (gay).

                                  That's why...

                                  similarly

                                  being a prostitute with with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslima
                                  but being a prostitute with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a prostitute and disobey Allah is a non-muslima

                                  Therefore...

                                  How hard for you to show one ayat to prove a Muslim can I'TIQAD NOT TO "surrenders and submits to the laws of God", and still be a Muslim?

                                  Call anyone you like, just show me one ayat from the Qur'an.

                                  Definition of Creed or I'tiqad

                                  Example

                                  REFER HERE

                                  Peace

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Man_of_Faith
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #242

                                    Salaam,

                                    Oh sorry, you wanted to use those posts to prove that gays are not Muslims? I did not even consider that since they are completely NOT proving anything at all of what you say. What in Quran's guidelines shows that a gay is not mindful of God and the system when he is a righteous person, i.e. a Muslim? You are a Muslim when you try to follow God's guidelines no matter of personal success level and sins and has nothing to do with being eligible for Heaven or Hell. God is recording bad and good deeds and the good ones weigh heavier than the bad ones.

                                    Believer is only an extension to the Muslim concept where you do not only heed the creed and are also certain about God in your heart. If Qur'an addresses Believers it either addresses those who are Believers, want to be Believers or feel hit by the address.

                                    We proved that homosexuality is against God's (anatomical) design but it is not unnatural as the phenomenon simply exists and that not only in humans.

                                    If you live by the system by saving resources and minding the cycle of nature, are your good self and believe in God why are you not following the three main criteria in God's creed?

                                    Can you think instead of these homosexuals and how they feel inside and I am sure that many of them feel it could be regarded against God's design, but they simply cannot help their different attraction?

                                    Many homosexuals have tried to "convert" their sexual preference and failed due to that they cannot reprogram themselves to these innate feelings. If they have striven hard to do what they can about their personal condition and follow the rest of the Message will you call them non-Muslims? They abide to the system.

                                    With your logic, if you fail on a certain part of God's creed then I can call you 'muslims' a non-Muslim, how does that feel brother?

                                    We are certainly not perfect none of us and we sin but we repent and regret. Some things we work hard to stop doing and some we manage to stop doing and other things we can never manage to stop sinning about. Do you not see that if we followed your concept then none of us would be Muslims? Not a single one of us would be Muslims, or do you claim that you are free from sin?

                                    Following God's system is abiding by His Message and being mindful of Him, His realm and leading a righteous life by most importantly being a goodly person. Have you missed the good example of the Messengers?

                                    How about the other question I asked in the previous post, even if it is slightly off-topic, what is your answer there because it seems very important to your misinterpretation of God's creed.

                                    Like I said; you make the same mistake as Jesus' contemporaries who could only parrot the Message but could not act out on its contents and could not understand a thing of the depth of the Message. I wish to help you, but you need to stop this attitude.

                                    God bless you

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                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      muslims
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #243

                                      Oh sorry, you wanted to use those posts to prove that gays are not Muslims?

                                      Salam

                                      I give up, no wonder your wife left you. You only argues and don't even read what people or you, yourselves are saying. giveup

                                      Peace peace

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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Man_of_Faith
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #244

                                        Salaam,

                                        One more thing, the term Muslim is for the behavior and not a specific category. You can say it is a buff you get for a certain behavior. Muslim behavior makes you a Muslim.

                                        Arguing with you here for good or bad is perhaps not the most righteous thing I can do or maybe it is? Well, I try to behave and help you and I go out and help others in the street so then I am a Muslim.

                                        Bookish maybe sends money to charity, helps the weak old woman across the street, plays games with his brothers, talk about God with friends and other righteous things. And then after that all is blotted out because he is a gay? All the good thing he has done is completely worthless because he is a gay and thus a non-Muslim despite that Qur'an clearly talks about what a Muslim is.

                                        And after that you say that behavior is not the most important parameter of God's creed?

                                        God bless you

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Man_of_Faith
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #245

                                          Salaam brother,

                                          I read what you wrote and I said why it is not correct, but do you care to read yourself? My wife left because she has her own problems and it has nothing to do with this.

                                          Yes, we are here to argue are we not as long as what we write is constructive and not simply loose accusations and it is a bonus if we have something to show others. It proved you, I overwhelmed you with hints to why your logic is flawed, and that by using God's creation as a testimony.

                                          You say I argue, but look at yourself, are you not arguing and that with parroting ayats from the Qur'an that are completely irrelevant to this question.

                                          Salam

                                          I give up, no wonder your wife left you. You only argues and don't even read what people or you, yourselves are saying. giveup

                                          Peace peace

                                          God bless you

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