Polygamy refutation (verse 4:3)
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This was brought up a long time ago, that the verse literally translates to "in twos, threes, and fours". Your "up to four" theory sinks to the bottom of the sea. You wouldn't be marrying women in twos, threes, and fours unless you are thinking of starting a harem? Quite obviously, this verse is in regard to financing marriages.
We know it is your desire to change what has clearly been written, but you don't have a leg to stand on. You can propagate polygyny all you want, but the truth is, more and more women are waking up to what's really written in the Quran. The truth hurts.
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@ Released - I am replying once to the somewhat bizarre posts. . .
What are the numbers in Arabic? 1, 2, 3, and 4???
Do they match up with 4.3?
Beyond this - I do not get what you are asking . . .
"in twos, threes, and fours". Your "up to four" theory sinks to the bottom of the sea.
How? On the contrary - you have posted nothing that contradicts - the Sunni position and only agreed with it when talking about the verse and then 360 jump. The final number mentioned is four. . . the verse stops there.
You wouldn't be marrying women in twos, threes, and fours unless you are thinking of starting a harem? Quite obviously, this verse is in regard to financing marriages.
How so?
We know it is your desire to change what has clearly been written, but you don't have a leg to stand on. You can propagate polygyny all you want, but the truth is, more and more women are waking up to what's really written in the Quran. The truth hurts.
Once again . . . the strange desire to get "personal" . . . without bothering to answer anything. Why should it be my desire to change what has been written? Countless past and present experts of Arabic in droves have understood this to be what is according to the Sunni position. So why is it only my personal desire to change anything?
And you do not even know . . . what it is that I am fiddling with!
Our friend is a Sunni. Surprise Surprise. laugh
And how is that laughing matter? Or by saying this . . . does this somehow excuse you from answering?
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You people invent strange meanings . . . and then just become abusive . . . this has happened repeatedly! When you are no longer able to answer.
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The verse is about polygamy - for over 1000 years that is a how it has been understood - by Arabic experts and non-experts alike.
Salaam the chimp
1-Follow quran
73 Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any tutors. Little do you remember!2-don't follow leaders
3367 And they will say ?Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path.?3-don't follow priests and monks
931 They have taken their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah, son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god except He, be He glorified against what they set up.4-don't follow ancestors
3121 And if they are told ?Follow that which God has sent down.? They say ?No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.? What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell?i would be happy to discuss arguments from quran
your arguments are, until know, "kafir arguments".
it is forbidden to me, by my deen, to discuss of deen of God, with people who take other arbabs and make reference to other booksNow, can you respond to these without reference to other arbabs and other books
1- What is nikah for you ? Sexual act ?
2 -With how many "slaves" can you make "nikah" in your deen ? Are they counted in the "four" ? are they still slaves after nikah or did they obtain "wife " status ?
3- Why in 4-4; word sadaqa (charity) is used. When Allah speaks about dowry, he use generally ajr (salary) and it is an obligation. Did you consider what a man gives to his wife as sadaqa ?let's stop here for the moment
Peace -
Salaam the chimp
1-Follow quran
73 Follow what was sent down to you from your Lord, and do not follow besides Him any tutors. Little do you remember!2-don't follow leaders
3367 And they will say ?Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path.?3-don't follow priests and monks
931 They have taken their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah, son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god except He, be He glorified against what they set up.4-don't follow ancestors
3121 And if they are told ?Follow that which God has sent down.? They say ?No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing.? What if the devil had been leading them to the agony of Hell?i would be happy to discuss arguments from quran
your arguments are, until know, "kafir arguments".
it is forbidden to me, by my deen, to discuss of deen of God, with people who take other arbabs and make reference to other booksNow, can you respond to these without reference to other arbabs and other books
1- What is nikah for you ? Sexual act ?
2 -With how many "slaves" can you make "nikah" in your deen ? Are they counted in the "four" ? are they still slaves after nikah or did they obtain "wife " status ?
3- Why in 4-4; word sadaqa (charity) is used. When Allah speaks about dowry, he use generally ajr (salary) and it is an obligation. Did you consider what a man gives to his wife as sadaqa ?let's stop here for the moment
PeaceYou people are good at nothing more than petty insults. Look at you - you build up your own nonsense and come to abuse . . .
See what you said
your arguments are, until know, "kafir arguments".
In other words . . .this is a get out close by calling everyone "kafir"
No, no, no.
If to you everyone s Kafir - then you go an enjoy your own self and be a believer . . . and curse the god who until now has mislead humanity for 1500 years and is now leading YOU to straight path.
It is simple logic . . . you do not know a single letter of Quran without reliance on "others" . . .
What does these letters mean?
Nothing . . . they are nonsense aren't they?
it is forbidden to me, by my deen, to discuss of deen of God, with people who take other arbabs and make reference to other books
Is it? Then why are you discussing it?
Then it is perfectly safe to say . . . Islam is NOT your "deen" - whatever "deen" is . . .
You are completely illogical and do not know WHAT you are saying.
Other than calling people "Kaffir".
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You people are good at nothing more than petty insults. Look at you - you build up your own nonsense and come to abuse . . .
See what you said
In other words . . .this is a get out close by calling everyone "kafir"
No, no, no.
If to you everyone s Kafir - then you go an enjoy your own self and be a believer . . . and curse the god who until now has mislead humanity for 1500 years and is now leading YOU to straight path.
It is simple logic . . . you do not know a single letter of Quran without reliance on "others" . . .
What does these letters mean?
Nothing . . . they are nonsense aren't they?
Is it? Then why are you discussing it?
Then it is perfectly safe to say . . . Islam is NOT your "deen" - whatever "deen" is . . .
You are completely illogical and do not know WHAT you are saying.
Other than calling people "Kaffir".
salaam the_chimp
i didn't told that you are kafir. I Just told, based on quran, that your arguments are those used generally by kafirs. they cannot then be accepted.
now look at what are reation of kafirs when they are asked to use quran alone.
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur?an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
3945 And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
4012 This is because when God alone was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners were set up with Him, you believed. Therefore, the judgment is for God, the Most High, the Great.
so, dear chimp, i don't know what is in your heart, but if you want to argue not like a kafir and to react not like a kafir, rule is very simple
USE QURAN.
Isn't honest ?
I would then be very happy to respond to yours arguments.i remember you my questions
1- What is nikah for you ? Sexual act ?
2 -With how many "slaves" can you make "nikah" in your deen ? Are they counted in the "four" ? are they still slaves after nikah or did they obtain "wife " status ?
3- Why in 4-4; word sadaqa (charity) is used. When Allah speaks about dowry, he use generally ajr (salary) and it is an obligation. Did you consider what a man gives to his wife as sadaqa ?Peace
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salaam the_chimp
i didn't told that you are kafir. I Just told, based on quran, that your arguments are those used generally by kafirs. they cannot then be accepted.
now look at what are reation of kafirs when they are asked to use quran alone.
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur?an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
3945 And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
4012 This is because when God alone was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners were set up with Him, you believed. Therefore, the judgment is for God, the Most High, the Great.
so, dear chimp, i don't know what is in your heart, but if you want to argue not like a kafir and to react not like a kafir, rule is very simple
USE QURAN.
Isn't honest ?
I would then be very happy to respond to yours arguments.i remember you my questions
1- What is nikah for you ? Sexual act ?
2 -With how many "slaves" can you make "nikah" in your deen ? Are they counted in the "four" ? are they still slaves after nikah or did they obtain "wife " status ?
3- Why in 4-4; word sadaqa (charity) is used. When Allah speaks about dowry, he use generally ajr (salary) and it is an obligation. Did you consider what a man gives to his wife as sadaqa ?Peace
i didn't told that you are kafir.
Straight up - no. In a round about devious way yes. Evidence is right there.
I Just told, based on quran, that your arguments are those used generally by kafirs. they cannot then be accepted.
This means nothing . . . "logic" has nothing to do with one particular belief system . . . so saying that is calling every person who is not Quran only - like you a kafir - which includes me.
It seems you do not have or your concept of logic is skewed.
On one hand
so, dear chimp, i don't know what is in your heart, but if you want to argue not like a kafir and to react not like a kafir, rule is very simple
USE QURAN.
Isn't honest ?
I would then be very happy to respond to yours arguments.Then you have questions!
No way, Jose.
I don't deal with such nonsense. You have added nothing other than petty insults and you well versed nonsense. . . why you quote selective verses and try to justify and make excuses.
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Peace,
Nothing to excuse when you believe in the Message of God and not a lot of conjecture by fools. Most Messengers as far as I am concerned had only one wife, Abraham for example. Do not argue about Hagar because she was a concubine and Sarah's handmaiden only used because Sarah was barren.
The men and women come in twos.
Anyway, in a fair society there is no room for men to have several wives due to the quota of men vs. women. Thus is God's design as you obviously see as else God would make noteworthy more women in the society.
God bless you
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Peace,
Nothing to excuse when you believe in the Message of God and not a lot of conjecture by fools. Most Messengers as far as I am concerned had only one wife, Abraham for example. Do not argue about Hagar because she was a concubine and Sarah's handmaiden only used because Sarah was barren.
The men and women come in twos.
Anyway, in a fair society there is no room for men to have several wives due to the quota of men vs. women. Thus is God's design as you obviously see as else God would make noteworthy more women in the society.
God bless you
Salaam Man of Faith
personally, i don't believe that a women called hagar, concubine of Abraham, have existed.
No hagar in quran.
And the tale of Abraham expulsing hagar and ismaeil is incredible for me.Peace
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Peace,
Nothing to excuse when you believe in the Message of God and not a lot of conjecture by fools. Most Messengers as far as I am concerned had only one wife, Abraham for example. Do not argue about Hagar because she was a concubine and Sarah's handmaiden only used because Sarah was barren.
The men and women come in twos.
Anyway, in a fair society there is no room for men to have several wives due to the quota of men vs. women. Thus is God's design as you obviously see as else God would make noteworthy more women in the society.
God bless you
And what you "invent" from your mind is lot of conjecture. For example
" Most Messengers as far as I am concerned"
And how do you know?
See what I mean?
I have already exposed you . . . and you descended into swearing at me . . . This forum is about "Quran only" - hence when the nonsense is exposed . . . you start swearing and insulting.
You are too lazy to learn and make up things and then make excuses when you are shown the door.
Grow up.
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salaam
sorry if i was misunderstood.
i made no excuses.Thank you for exposing arguments of polygamy defensors.
That was very interesting.Peace
Quran quite clearly allows multiple marriage. End of.
Those who try to align their faith with Westernism . . . and make up things . . . well what can you say.
When you talk about Quran verses . . . you derail the argument.
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That "conjecture" with Abraham was from the Bible. Not much less reliable than your stupid Hadith. The other one was by applying God's design model. If you really studied what is in the Message instead of a lot of shit you would find more enlightening information.
Apart from that I used my own logic but using the brain is forbidden in Sunni Islam? Rarely are you appreciative said God.
We can wonder who needs to grow up. I came with sound arguments and you argue like those described in the Book who only guess a lot of bullshit and attribute it to God.
Bah, why waste time on the likes of you. I reply to someone who is cursed by God and which is completely futile. Have your "Islam" and I have my devotion to God instead.
Peace
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That "conjecture" with Abraham was from the Bible. Not much less reliable than your stupid Hadith. The other one was by applying God's design model. If you really studied what is in the Message instead of a lot of shit you would find more enlightening information.
Apart from that I used my own logic but using the brain is forbidden in Sunni Islam? Rarely are you appreciative said God.
We can wonder who needs to grow up. I came with sound arguments and you argue like those described in the Book who only guess a lot of bullshit and attribute it to God.
Bah, why waste time on the likes of you. I reply to someone who is cursed by God and which is completely futile. Have your "Islam" and I have my devotion to God instead.
Peace
If I was as abusive as you . . . I would get banned. I get threats for far far far less. Look at your swearing . . .
If you really studied what is in the Message
What is the "Message"?
More inventions?
Apart from that I used my own logic but using the brain is forbidden in Sunni Islam? Rarely are you appreciative said God.
But you are not logical - far from it. You are NOT educated or very brainy. I have repeatedly exposed that.
I came with sound arguments and you argue like those described in the Book who only guess a lot of bullshit and attribute it to God.
The eff word . . . and the rest? That is sound argument?
No. You have brought nothing . . . other than what you invent.
Bah, why waste time on the likes of you. I reply to someone who is cursed by God and which is completely futile. Have your "Islam" and I have my devotion to God instead.
There we have it . . . the disease of your heart.
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I have unraveled the whole "Quran only" . . . it is quite shocking . . . WHO makes up things . . . based on mistakes.
This is why Yuksel took Quran aligned it with Westernism . . . yet got put down by the likes of Ali Sina.
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We can ask ourselves who was "brainy" later. Stick to your shit and stop bothering me here.
Peace out
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Quran quite clearly allows multiple marriage. End of.
Those who try to align their faith with Westernism . . . and make up things . . . well what can you say.
When you talk about Quran verses . . . you derail the argument.
Salaam
the more i read your arguments, the more i am impressed.
hope you are representative of the real spiritual depth of polygamy defensors and that you are not saying that just to make me happy.Peace
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Salaam
the more i read your arguments, the more i am impressed.
hope you are representative of the real spiritual depth of polygamy defensors and that you are not saying that just to make me happy.Peace
Sorry petal - being offensive will not get you out of it. . . you have added nothing to the debate. Simply flinging insults is not an answer . . . the problem is that "Quran only" impressed by Westernism try to find solution to align Islam with Westernism . . . but it doesn't work like that.
If you have anything to add regarding the issue - fine else. . . there is no point answering - is there?
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Really, really,
I am starting to think that those to whom the Qur'an really allows poligamy are the
Chimps
But to even those, it would not be in 4.3. It is a fantastic error of Arabic reading to not differentiate between the in twos, threes , fours, from two, three, and four. And it is also another error of grammar and common sense to not be able to follow in a reading whom the speech is addressed to.
But, I can feel with Chimp. He seems to really BELIEVE, to have blind faith in poligamy of men. If he does not intend to marry that is clever, because very politely he is indicaating to other men that they should also marry the wife he might marry himself, since obvioulsy there are not enough women of marriageable age to go around.
Of course, as commented, any young man can always marry an old women since of those there is no scarcity. But not to forget that they are choosy. So better polish the manners.
Another point to the Chimp. No, 4.3 is not about poligamy, 4.3 is about orphans. It is symptomatic that you say that it is about poligamy when it clearly in the words and the context and the sorrounding ayas are out of concern for the orphans not for the number of wives any deluded male might think that he could manage.
Salaam