Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
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Shalom aleyhim
I confirm first, if both users of this account are both males, no females ever used this account.I disguised as woman to avoid some detection from some scumbags, but don't worry this has nothing to do with this forum and members in here.
The woman I used as profile pict actually my sister not me ).
After get more deeper discussion about tafseer Quran, play Arabic words with Indonesian and Malaysian Quranites, it seems I start to questioning Quran itself.Many fallacies, allegorical phrases which I see as a nonsense and it's imposibble if this is God's words.
Currently I'm in agnostic state like Yuliana and I will post some refutation against Quran in this forum.
If members in here capable against all my refutation and give proper answers, I will back to so called Islam maybe.
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Thanks muslim.
It's just an opening, some time I will create threads for refutation against Quran.
Hope u can answers mine with your premises methodology.
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Peace Earthdom.
Sometimes I also wonder if I was not born into Muslim family, would I ever believe in Qur'an?
What makes Qur'an the revelation from God? I don't think it is code 19.
Why did God make the last Prophet polygamous?
Why isn't there any clear verse that raping is forbidden and rapists punishments.
I am not saying that there absolutely isn't any but it takes more cross-references and linguistic interpretations instead of just clear verses, like "God is One" verse. This makes some people say that Quran doesn't say anything about rape.
I also wonder are some of the Quarnists just try too hard to make islam and Quran look good? I wish not. I wish these nondenominational muslism are sincere people. -
Peace
@Released, I still believe in God, but just doubting if the Quran is His words.I never wanted to became atheist, coz I have many theories against it.
I don't care bout label, people mostly label me as kafir, crazy.@muslims, most of muslims even Quranites in our region including Semenanjung still follow this pattern "I believe Quran is true because it's verses said if the Quran is true"
Interesting fact is the most Quranites from Semenanjung is follower of kod 19 and Kassim Ahmad. I already faced a Bahmanic discussion before rotfl.
@Yuliana, most of people in Asia and Africa still follow their forefather religions and traditions, not choose on their own.This is so why they're lack of development.
I was born muslim, yes I get doctrined for many years, until when I convert from Sunni to Quran-only I feel something wrong in my mind, I still get conflict with my brain, I still think I will go to hell, get adzab because of this.I also wonder are some of the Quarnists just try too hard to make islam and Quran look good?
People will try to make good for their name, institution, if they get attacked-abandoned by some societies.
ex there will not such like anti-polygamy intepretation, if there is no Islamophobes or anti-poligamy activist.
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Why did God make the last prophet poligamous, why there are so many prophets of those mentionned int he Qur'an who are males and so few females.
I have an answer, may be there are others.
In a patriarchal world, males need to be commanded, not women, women need to be taught to be independent, to be their own masters. Men need to be taught to be humble, to be of service, to be pure and be bound by their duties, therefore in the whole of Qur'an there are more injunctions and orders to the men than to the women. Because if you say to the women that they have so many rights, and men are not told to observe those rights, what do you get. Men need examples, lots of examples, men need examples like that of Maryam, a single mother with a child. And women need that example too, to know that God is with them, that even when they are in the middle of publish shame because of a single motherhood, God is with them, God has for them the Most tenderness and care, that they are blessed and if the child does nto have a father God will act as a father for them.
But the patriarchal mind would not sucumb to the clear injonctions of the Qur'an that easily, that is why to the clear words of the Qur'an a whole new Qur'an woven through interpretation has been superimposed. It is amazing and incredible, I keep being surprised at how much has been hidden of the Qur'an at plan sight just through the indoctrination through interpretation and through the own personal and unconscious assumption of the patriarchal mind.
Let us wake up. I know of no text as aseptic in sexual preference as the Qur'an, as unprejudiced and freeluy spoken as the Qur'an.
Women liberation, the most ambitious of all women liberations is int he Qur'an. The vlearest assertion of the female-male comradeship is int he Qur'an.
Of course, when one waddles through millions of peages on "modesty" it seems incredible. When we get ready of this "modesty" as a mouthgage, we may get further. What lacks is the resolution to go further. It is not the basis or the instrument to do so. Ther Qur'an provides it.
It is the resolution of the male selfcentric diseased mind (assumed ocnsciously or unconsciously by men and women alike) that puts a gag on the minds and the hearts.
Relinquish our advantages and quest for power (over women at least)?
NEVER! NEVER!
That is the problem, not the Qur'an.
Salaam
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@muslims, most of muslims even Quranites in our region including Semenanjung still follow this pattern "I believe Quran is true because it's verses said if the Quran is true"
Obviously these are denominations, and may also include you... based from the way you see, judge and categorized people..
and they are seeking proof at the wrong place.
you are searching for "truth" and "proof" from illusion (matter, 1 and 0.. proof for those whose faith is equal to the kindergarten) and it is quite funny to see how you have wasted your life
Someone need to grow up, or they are wasting their whole life becoming greatest losers... without realizing it.
Say Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in (their) deeds?
(These are) they whose labor
is lost in this world's life
and they think
that they are well versed in skill of the work of handsThese are they who disbelieve
in the communications of their Lord and His meeting
so their deeds become null
and therefore We will not set up a balance for them
on the day of resurrection.Thus it is that their recompense is hell
because they disbelieved
and held My communications
and My messengers
in mockery
(18103-106)Deaf, dumb and blind
so they will not return
2.18 -
I think the best part of being a Muslim is, you can be a Muslim even if you don't believe in Allah, heaven, paradise etc, at all!
what???
Is it like "you can be a Jew even without believing in God" hahaha? did you copy it from there? rotfl
It's not the same I'm afraid... -
what???
Is it like "you can be a Jew even without believing in God" hahaha? did you copy it from there? rotfl
It's not the same I'm afraid...True, as long you don't believe in God/god (not associate) and living justly according to the rules in the Quran...
You should read and ponder the Quran carefully, rather than looking at numbers rotfl
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Pace Earthdom.
Only God teaches Qoran. That is it. He is the only one who can help!
If you are expecting anyone to answer your questions satisfactorily, then you are wasting your time. Our contribution, if you leave God out of it, will only increase your doubt and confusion.
Besides, you are responsible for yourself only.Who in here would take that responsibility and guide you to their own understanding?
You have to make a decision, GOD or others?
God bless you.
Peace to you.
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Pace good logic
I still believe in god, but just now refute if Quran is His word.
I still pray to God and always ask Him to show who is Him, what is the real revelations you sent down to us?
Peace to you to
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Peace Earthdom,
Qur'an is from God; it is just that its interpretation is distorted with lots of conjecture and lots of guesses. The simplest possible explanation is the true interpretation for most part. As you saw book is not even a concrete item. God does not need concrete items.
Diacritics and such things are just additions, these original scripts had no such markers. They should be used carefully to understand the Message as some fool might have added them or simply an ambitious person but fallible and thus could do mistakes.
The problem is that we have made the physical book Qur'an an idol. You see yourself that there are even differences between preservations of it. It is the substance of the Message God promised to keep forever and not any dead materia.
God bless you
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Qur'an is from God;
The we must have valid proof for how this is from God.
Just consider we're an atheist, know nothing bout religion, Quran, Torah, Veda etc.What methodology we used to proof the Scripture is true.
The analogy is you visit a tribal area who know nothing bout monotheism, then just give them the Quran.I'm sure they will ask many questions like me in my refutation thread.
Diacritics and such things are just additions, these original scripts had no such markers. They should be used carefully to understand the Message as some fool might have added them or simply an ambitious person but fallible and thus could do mistakes.
All semitic (Hebrew-Arab etc) contains consonant words only (YHWH =Yahweh)
Diacritic is used for non-Arabic to made them easy to read Arabi text, but if they already mastering Arabic vocabularies the diacritic/harakat/tashkill is not a must
What is Sabbath?? Using Quran Alone ?? We refers Torah? It cannot because it forbidden in Quran (7750) ;D.
God bless u
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Peace All,
There are many levels of belief from certainty to kufr, there is a place for everyone. Where one sits on the scale
is exactly where God has decided they belong, it is no accident. God's guidance is the greatest
benefit in this life as well as the next. These are the fortunate ones. A person's journey will ultimately be
determined by God. Believers need little proof while non-believers need immense proof. The question is
how do we know that the Quran is from God? We know for sure as we know our children exist!God bless
peace
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Peace Earthdom,
Trust me, an atheist can turn into a Believer all by himself and can also adopt Qur'an. That is what I did. It is the passages that you read of Qur'an that makes you realize it is from God.
We have talked about it before, but you cannot prove Qur'an as much as you can prove God. Well, proving things is very relative anyways. It is what the Qur'an contains, i.e the Message that must either make you believe in it or not believe in it. There is certain things such as code 19, but it takes another step of belief too. Then you must believe that it adds any coherence to it. I am sad to hear that you have lost your trust in Qur'an as the narrations of God and I hope you can understand that you are mistaken soon. When you see us dispute over all kinds of things here on this forum you need to know that it is we that are complicating things and not God who made it complicated. All the bad things are from us.
The Message is probably simpler even at the state we have taken it to right now. Fasting is likely not 30 days as there is not enough proof of that from previous texts recorded in those who followed the Message in the past. We need to remember God did likely not make the Message harder at the advent of Qur'an. It is our ignorance that has turned Islam into a religion full of rules. Our devotion and service to God should come from ourselves. I assure you that you could skip Qur'an and live your life in service of God and be mindful of the Lord and do good and behave well while believing and you would surely still be admitted into Heaven. Thus is the Message of the Lord. Even verses of Qur'an confirms this. You could basically even create your own religion and follow some basic rules and God would accept you if you did not do evil or vice but believed that God was ONE and did good. I promise you; one could even read the Bible and look beyond the obvious perversions and be a good worshiper. I was unitarian Christian before I encountered Islam and Qur'an and I was hence a Muslim before that and I could surely gone to Heaven anyway, at least on the premise of Knowledge.
God bless you
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Dear Man of Faith,
May peace be unto you.
A part of your above post is certainly misleading. You are saying that a person will still be given the abode of paradise even without believing the final message. Your statements are partially true, and not entirely. God may forgive if a person never gets the final message of the Quran in his entire lifetime before facing death, but according to the Quran, it is highly unlikely that God would forgive someone when the final message, the Quran, reaches to him and he studies the message, and yet rejects it in the end.
The rejectors were destroyed when they didn't believe in the message of the messenger
"Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its centre a messenger..." (2859)
This verse below tells us that even an idolator is not a kafir by default when he doesn't know about the message of God
"And if anyone of the idolaters seeks thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of God, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not." (96)
But after studying the message, if the idolater rejects it, then he enters into the state of disbelief, he becomes a kafir, he becomes a rejector.
The winners are those who believe in the messenger when the message reaches them, and the losers are those who rejects it when the message reaches them
"In the end We deliver Our messengers and those who believe Thus is it fitting on Our part that We should deliver those who believe!" (10103)
Unfortunately, if brother Earthdom now does not believe in the final messenger and in his message and dies in this state, I'm afraid to say that he and his likes would be doomed to hell unless of course God forgives, but it is unlikely.
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Salaam Man of Faith and Scribbler.
I'm not arguing bout this anymore.I'm not an atheist, I'm an agnostic.
I still believe in God, whoever He is.What I just do know is a re-evaluation to prove whih one is the God's revelations?
And it has some possibility if I back to using Quran again.Quran contais some beautiful and words of advice, but I don't see Scripture just because of that.
Bible, Veda even Ahadith has also many beautiful verses, but is there any contradictions and fallaay in there to knowing if that's God's word?Now I think Quran has many based on study and experieces/empiric.
Oh yes the title is also misslead, I should change "Looks Like I leave Quran".