Looks Like I Planned to Leave Islam .......
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Peace,
There is just one Message. If you believe in it, i.e believe in God while doing good then you are fine. Qur'an is but a reminder and tool to use on the path. This is the problem of the belief of kitab as book, it causes this.
I have a hard time understanding how one can disbelieve in Qur'an as not inspired by God though. It was something I became very sure about a few years ago that it was one of God's marvels even if it would not entirely by 100% pure it is the best scriptural Guide to help one believe and understand the creed is mainly about being mindful of God, purify oneself and do good. It is not much else as much as I could find. It does not teach evil so to say.
I was sad to see you turn away from Qur'an and that you cannot see they are only righteous signs from God, what is relevant of this scripture anyway.
God bless you
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I was sad to see you turn away from Qur'an and that you cannot see they are only righteous signs from God, what is relevant of this scripture anyway.
Peace Man of Faith,
Do not be sad, believe/accept all of the Quran
We know that you may be saddened by what they say. You should know that it is not you that they reject;
it is GOD's revelations that they incorrectly disregard.I am not sad, offended or put-off by Earthdom's admission, on the contrary, what we are witnessing is God's decree,
and God is in control of all things.If their rejection gets to be too much for you, you should know that even if you dug a tunnel through
the earth, or climbed a ladder into the sky, and produced a miracle for them (they still would not believe).
Had GOD willed, He could have guided them, unanimously. Therefore, do not behave like those who do not know.Earthdom, do not be offended by my words, when the time is right for your submission, we will celebrate
and glorify God with his praises.God bless
peace
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Salaam all
I have a hard time understanding how one can disbelieve in Qur'an as not inspired by God though.
The Quran sound plausible to you because it's translation.
Quran's translations have so many inputted words, change real meanings by assumptive methodologies of course,so the Quran will sound relliable.
Monotheist Translation also one of them.But if you ever read Quran in Arabic, you will found many insane Arabic pattern which will make you confused and hard guessing.
Earthdom, do not be offended by my words, when the time is right for your submission, we will celebrate
and glorify God with his praises.I never felt offended , I always be open-minded to everyone.So don't worry )
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Peace Earthdom,
The word "agnostic" may not be the best word to describe you now because agnostic is about knowledge, not belief. Agnostic generally means someone who cannot have true knowledge about the existence of God. That's why I consider myself as an agnostic THEIST because I think God exists but cannot really prove it.
The best word to describe people like is sceptic.
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Agnostc-ignostic is about belief, but too find true belief we need knowledges.
I just believe in God but no religion.
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Belief in God but no religion? Deist? Deists believe that God exists but not religion. They believe God is IMpersonal and doesn't intervene in people's lives.
Or you are simply an irreligious monotheist?
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Or you are simply an irreligious monotheist?
It also possiblity I believe god is Deva Shiva or Devi Quan Im ;D
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Peace Earthdom,
But if you ever read Quran in Arabic, you will found many insane Arabic pattern which will make you confused and hard guessing.
We must still be reminded that it is a book written over a millennium ago. Languages and style change and thus something seem strange later on. I highly doubt that Qur'an is exempt from that. Someone who wrote the intricate story or narrations of Qur'an cannot have been stupid and must have mastered the language at its time, that you find the Arabic patterns insane is likely due to you and other people who try to read it over 1400 years later.
When I read a Swedish book from 500 years ago I also find the language strange and I can barely understand it. So why do you think we have a problem reading Qur'an which is more than double that age?
Also I continue to urge you to reconsider the word kitab in Qur'an to literally mean book and try to read whole of it without applying it to a concrete item.
God bless you
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Yes Man of Faith, langauage will face metamorph as time passed.
I also didn't capable to read older texts from my place, like Book of Sutasoma, it sound like different language.
I believe Quran used Classical Quraish dialect and I even need Classical dictionary such like Lane Lexicon and Lisan ul Arab to undersand it.
But this Classical still contains similiarity with the modern Arabic, mostly.But unfortunately, the problem is Quranic phrases which is not easy to decipher as well as in hadith.
Example Said, " Man of Faith sphaghheti eat 9 a'clock when sleep the wife the last"
Remember it's just an example, it has many more in Quran Arabic text.
And Quranic verses rarely showing the name of Subject, mostly use pronoun like hu,him, she , he, which you always wondering with who the God talking to? who said this sentence? -
Peace,
But we cannot falsify the information because WE have problems to decipher the passages.
God bless you
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After get more deeper discussion about tafseer Quran, play Arabic words with Indonesian and Malaysian Quranites, it seems I start to questioning Quran itself.Many fallacies, allegorical phrases which I see as a nonsense and it's imposibble if this is God's words.
Good, never stop questioning, a revelation starts with a question.
God's revelation can be delivered through any communication channel and it didn't stop 1300 years ago..Currently I'm in agnostic state like Yuliana and I will post some refutation against Quran in this forum.
Waiting for your refutation..
If members in here capable against all my refutation and give proper answers, I will back to so called Islam maybe.
What do you mean by joining and leaving Islam?
And why you feel the need to do as such?Leave the sectarian mindset behind, that's my recommendation to you.
Learn from everything and everyone, God's sign is spread all over the universe.Salam / Peace
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Peace all
But we cannot falsify the information because WE have problems to decipher the passages.
If we couldn't dechiper the passages, how we know that information is true or false.
I will create a thread bout this as long as my refutation solved.
Good, never stop questioning, a revelation starts with a question.
God's revelation can be delivered through any communication channel and it didn't stop 1300 years ago..True
The problem now is who is God-god, what kind of god which I want to worship.What do you mean by joining and leaving Islam?
Just misswrote, I should wrote "leaving Quran" not "leaving Islam".
What kind of mine god in the future I will submit/ to Him/Her/Them -
Peace all
If we couldn't dechiper the passages, how we know that information is true or false.
I will create a thread bout this as long as my refutation solved.
True
The problem now is who is God-god, what kind of god which I want to worship.Just misswrote, I should wrote "leaving Quran" not "leaving Islam".
What kind of mine god in the future I will submit/ to Him/Her/ThemThe God who understand you better than yourselves.
The God whose will/policy/decision/law shall happened in the future as it is in the past.
(Take a glimpse of every event that has happened in your life, all of it is God's will)
The God who continue to give guidance to you and the rest of human being and He/It did not stop 1300 years ago in Arabia. -
Salaam,
Do tell, what will you gain from posting refutations against the Qur'aan? You gain nothing but making yourself feel good about yourself after you leave Islam. You're just trying to validate your own belief, that's all.
You want to stop believing in the Qur'aan? It does not bother me. Just don't go on a "jihad" mode trying to prove people wrong, because it looks like you're just insecure with your current state of belief.
I find it funny because you claim to find the Qur'aanic language to be incomprehensible. Well, guess what? Because you have not learnt the Classical Arabic language and you try to translate it straight to your own language. I have started learning Classical Arabic, and the Qur'aanic phrases is not inconsistent like you claim it is. I can understand some just fine,
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Met malam BornAgain
Do tell, what will you gain from posting refutations against the Qur'aan?
I'm in study sis, study.Gain?? I want some answer to determine my movements afterward.
I dont want to debate, I just want some answers.This is free-minds right?? people from many religious background and perceptions can join this forum.Look some members refute my methodology in my refutation thread.they forget if this is not Quranist forum anymore but free-minds.This is so why my thread turned to be off topic.
I find it funny because you claim to find the Qur'aanic language to be incomprehensible. Well, guess what? Because you have not learnt the Classical Arabic language and you try to translate it straight to your own language. I have started learning Classical Arabic, and the Qur'aanic phrases is not inconsistent like you claim it is. I can understand some just fine,
I'm also using dictionaries like Lane Lexicon and lisan ul Arab.
Translate to mine language in straight way?? C'mon you don't know me.Not inconsistent but difficult to dechiper.
Classical Arab and modern still have same meaning mostly, just different in structure.Classical Arabic fussha (pattern) is more simple rather than modern Arab dialects.
To study many languages, we need three points -Vocabularies
-Pattern and formulas
-Local dialects and pronouncations.We cannot speak to the natives of the langauge if we just rely on vocabularies-dictionaries.
Jika ente ingin berdiskusi dengan saya lebih jauh pake bahasa, silahkan lewat PM, tenang aja ane gak tanya2 masalah pribadi/personal.
Ane juga gak bisa trus-trusan pake inggris, pusing di kepala ;D -
Shalom aleyhim
After get more deeper discussion about tafseer Quran, play Arabic words with Indonesian and Malaysian Quranites, it seems I start to questioning Quran itself.Many fallacies, allegorical phrases which I see as a nonsense and it's imposibble if this is God's words.
Currently I'm in agnostic state like Yuliana and I will post some refutation against Quran in this forum.
If members in here capable against all my refutation and give proper answers, I will back to so called Islam maybe.
Peace be within you, mas Earthdom
Waduuh, mas Earthdom, o ;D banyak-banyak bersabar dan komitmen, dong.. dalam pencarian Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya daripada Yang Maha Esa sahaja. Lelaki yang dilantik sebagai Nabi juga menerima ajaranNya dalam masa yang panjang. P
Sincerity to your own-self, not just to the Lord, is one of the criteria on that Straight Path. It is important that you acknowledge to yourself that you are still lacking the knowledge of His Truth. But that acknowledgement is to the Lord alone, not in a forum. Be confidence that you are being guided whenever you questions the Lord about the religion Islam and the Quran. Always ask for His protection, strength in patience and the wisdom He promises, we truly needed them, if and when you see, acknowledge and accept His Truth alone.
Think and reflect on the keyword, "He promises". He promises many things to all mankind whom He created, not just for those who follow the religion Islam. But what is your promise or covenant in return to Him alone? All of us, mankind, owed the Sovereign Lord, big time.
You have said that the One True God and your salvation is more important to you. Then allow me to ask you this question, who among all the God aloners, the articles and books written by men, the youtubes, and the discussions, debates and arguments in forums; who do you think can truly give you the true guidance, at the same time give you the light of Truth, and the living proof within your self? Who holds the Power and the Authority to all knowledge of the world and the Hereafter?
Allow me to add to your inquisitive mind a few more questions regarding the Lord and the Book of Truth. Who named the final book as Al-Quran/ the Reading, was it the Lord, or those men after the death of the last prophet? Was it the Lord who taught the last prophet to recite the book harmoniously in Arabic only without understanding what's in it, or was it those men who created the religion Islam? Was the Lord and His final Book all about the religion Islam? Was not the first purpose of the final Book, was to be a witness and confirmed the previous two Books only? Was the Lord and the final Book about reforming a religion created by men, or was it about reforming your own self because you are His creation? The direction of our life journey is, "we came from Him and to Him we will return, dust to dust and ashes to ashes". Do you truthfully know who you are from His knowledge of Truth?
This is one of the Gospel from the Lord which He taught the prophet Isa/Imanu-el, written down by Thomas, from the Nag Hammadi finds, think and reflect
18 The disciples said to Imanu-el/Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be." Imanu-el/Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."
Does the Lord needed a religion, or any one else or any associate, to guide you alone on that Straight Path? I cannot make you or any one else, see and believe what I have written because most of His teachings are of the unseen and the Hereafter. His teachings and knowledge of Truth are about our self-development - our awareness of Him, the God-conscious, the mind; our sincerity, patience, our trust and faith in Him only, the heart. He alone holds that Power and Authority to purify and to establish (the zakat and the salat), because He is the Creator of all that can be seen and the unseen.
Peace and may the Lord blesses you with enlightenment. pr
tauhid101 -
Salam, Pak cik tauhid 101, pejabat dari negeri Jiran ;D.Saya masih percaya adanya Tuhan, tapi mempertanyakan keabsahan Quran sebagai firman Dia.Saya akan terus mencari apa sistem yg diwariskan Tuhan kepada kita (entah Islam, Yahudi, Hindu dll).
I will keep pray to God, whathever He is Yang Maha Satu or not.I still became agnostic for a while.
I study Quran intensively for some month, indeed I found some what I to be considered as "fallacy".
It's hard to leave Islam even for a while, because it's my forefather's religion of course and I get dogmatic from it since born.You have said that the One True God and your salvation is more important to you. Then allow me to ask you this question, who among all the God aloners, the articles and books written by men, the youtubes, and the discussions, debates and arguments in forums; who do you think can truly give you the true guidance, at the same time give you the light of Truth, and the living proof within your self? Who holds the Power and the Authority to all knowledge of the world and the Hereafter?
People's opinions is my secundary, my primary is the Scripture of course, because it's from where the religion belong.
I don't belong to any sects or group, what I do now is just to find the truth by self-taught.Who named the final book as Al-Quran/ the Reading, was it the Lord, or those men after the death of the last prophet?
Sorry I could not answer for this.Maybe some of intepretator using their speculation theories to answer this.
18 The disciples said to Imanu-el/Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be." Imanu-el/Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."
Apa bapak ni Kristen?
I also ever read Bible as well as apochripal books like Book of Thomas, Maria Magdalene.
Until now I still believe if Tanakh is more complete rather than Quran when explain anything.God Bless u
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Salam, Pak cik tauhid 101, pejabat dari negeri Jiran ;D.Saya masih percaya adanya Tuhan, tapi mempertanyakan keabsahan Quran sebagai firman Dia.Saya akan terus mencari apa sistem yg diwariskan Tuhan kepada kita (entah Islam, Yahudi, Hindu dll).
Salam kembali, mas Earthdom
Iya..masih dalam masa Pejabat sekarang ini ;D. Pentingnya kepercayaan terhadap kewujudanNya tidak terus hilang kerna banyak pusing
Mungkin juga ada wujudnya sistem saintifik mahu pun sistem lain, tapi dari pengalaman yang sudah saya lalui lebih dari 20tahun membaca, belajar dan personal research, bagi saya sistem itu satu sahaja yang dinamakanNya Jalan Yang Lurus, seperti termaktub disurah pertama, iaitu antara diri sendiri dengan Tuhan sahaja. Apa yang sudah saya fahami, label2 tiga ugama yang wujud dari kitab2Nya hanya nama yang diberikan oleh golongan bani Israel yang berpecah belah.I will keep pray to God, whathever He is Yang Maha Satu or not.I still became agnostic for a while.
I study Quran intensively for some month, indeed I found some what I to be considered as "fallacy".
It's hard to leave Islam even for a while, because it's my forefather's religion of course and I get dogmatic from it since born.Yes its true that it is very hard to leave the religion which we were born into. It took me nearly 20 years not just to reject Islam, but also Christianity and Judaism. I don't belong to any sect, nor label myself in any way. I'm just one of the Lord's slaves, submitting to Him alone and humbly submissive to His Will, His faithful slave. That is what I will tell people whenever they asked me, hanya seorang hamba Tuhan. I was born into the religion Islam without the knowledge of His Truth.
Yes the name Al-Quran itself does not reflect the contents and purpose of the whole Book, it should had been named Al-Kitab Al-Haqq, the Book of Truth. The main purpose is to confirm and witnessed the previous two Books only. It is not to confirm and witnessed the sayings of men, the hadiths. No matter how much corruptions and distortions had been made to the Gospel, the Torah and the Book of Truth, they are still the Books from the Lord. The Torah does not belong to Moses and the Jews, the Gospel does not belong to Jesus and the Romans and the Greeks, and the Book of Truth does not belong to prophet Ahmad and the Arabs only. The Lord and all His Books are for all mankind because He is the Creator, the Sovereign Lord of all mankind.
Apa bapak ni Kristen?
Kok.. baru satu ayat dari Gospel dan omongan dalam bahasa Inggeris sudah dianggap Kristen? ;D Saya hanya seorang hamba Tuhan Yg Maha Pengasih dan Maha Penyayang. Semoga mas Earthdom kuatkan semangat perjuangan mencari Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya, ya. The Truth and nothing but the Truth only.
Peace and may the Lord blesses you with enlightenment. pr
tauhid101 -
Salam sejahtera tauhid101.
Tiga a/ugama muncul karena alasan historis, agama Yahudi muncul karena adanya Talmud dan diambil dari suku Yehuda.Agama Kristen dibuat oleh Barnabas dan Paulus di Antiokhia.Kalo masalah nama "Islam", sebenarnya saya masih meneliti di dalam Quran terutama frase "Al ladeena 3inda Allahi al Islaaam" in 319.Ayat ni menunjukkan bahwa nama agama yg diotoritikan oleh Quran adalah "Islam".
Yes its true that it is very hard to leave the religion which we were born into. It took me nearly 20 years not just to reject Islam, but also Christianity and Judaism. I don't belong to any sect, nor label myself in any way. I'm just one of the Lord's slaves, submitting to Him alone and humbly submissive to His Will, His faithful slave. That is what I will tell people whenever they asked me, hanya seorang hamba Tuhan. I was born into the religion Islam without the knowledge of His Truth.
Yeah most of Borneo is Muslim.I was born and live in Java but I'm actually a Dayak from Kalimantan, cuma merantau ke Jawa.
For me religion is the ways/efforts to reach the God and salvation, hence it's ways have many kinds ( Islam, Hindhu, Christian etc).
Religion created when a Scripture intepreted, and differences of intepretation will result of sectarianism.
Now I just simply "God seeker", I want to know what kind of God-god yg layak untuk disembah and the way to know it is study many Scriptures.Kok.. baru satu ayat dari Gospel dan omongan dalam bahasa Inggeris sudah dianggap Kristen? P P ;D Saya hanya seorang hamba Tuhan Yg Maha Pengasih dan Maha Penyayang. Semoga mas Earthdom kuatkan semangat perjuangan mencari Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya, ya. The Truth and nothing but the Truth only.
Wkwkwkwk, maklum saya orang awam ;D.
Kalau mau diskusi pake bahasa, lewat PM aja ga papa, I'm always be open minded.Tuhan disanjung.
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