Abba or Allah
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Peace Jafar
The "Lords Prayer" is NOT an Islamic prayer or "The prayer of a religion / tradition named Islam" due to
- It was not authored by Muhammad
- It was not authorized to be one by the authority of Islamic cleric. (which can be either Salafis Imam or Shiite Imam which are fighting for the sole authority of the Truest Islam religion as we speak now)
Don?t really get you?
Are you among this choir or not.
If not Then why do you bring their views.Anyway you know as well as I do, that there are not such autority here on earth to tell us what Islamic or not.
My view is only my own, and I should only be judged by God.Still looking for the possibillity that the word could have been changed
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Peace NielsJacob,
I think it is an error in translation and perhaps a deliberate error to suit the belief as Jesus as son of God.
"The Lord's Prayer" is a very righteous prayer where you ask God's help and that God's will be done. I usually say these phrases to God in my Communion. If you just change Father into Lord the prayer is fine to use when you want to call upon your Master.
There is nothing called "unislamic" or such. The only unislamic is when you call upon other lords than The Lord and commit evil and immoral deeds.
God bless you
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The term "God Father" only exist in Greek New Testament, I never found it in Tanakh/Old Testament.Hope I'm not wrong.
Peace
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Peace Earthdom,
You are right. God as Father does not occur even once in the Old Testament. However, the word son of man occurs (perhaps carries the same meaning as Children of Adam), but not son of God as far as I recall. I have read the Bible numerous times with several different translations.
I have thought that the Gospels are mistranslated from some original source which was not Ancient Greek. It is also clear that the current translations seem to contradict itself on the verses giving Jesus a status as divinity while some other seem to regard Jesus as a simple servant of God following His will although in a very reverent and pious way.
Either mistranslation or words inputed later if you ask me.
God bless you
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I have thought that the Gospels are mistranslated from some original source which was not Ancient Greek.
I also think about that.Jesus came from Semitic blood, then how the Gospels written in Greek, or maybe during Roman Empire the Greek used as lingua franca?
I ever watch a documentary, if the original language of New Testame is in Aramaic, Hebrew and some verses actually didn't exist in original text like term "Father, Son Holy Spirit" and Mark 18-19.
There are also some contradictions between New Testament translations.In a translation this verses exist but in other translations they arent.
I'm curious who is actually Luke and Mark, because looks like they're European not a Semitic.
Matthew and John are the writers of four Gospels who have Semitic origins.Peace
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Peace,
John is one of the better representations of the Message after own observation. But it also contains strange wordings which contradict the context. But I would say like in the previous post that they are either mistranslations or added later.
I always loved reading the Gospel but the verses about son made me confused since I did not accept the "holy trinity". Now I see that as something not belonging to the original writings but somehow "slipped in" for some reason. The white guy in a funny hat and his goons are probably the cause of that, perhaps in the early 100s, like the year 325 AD.
God bless you
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Abba or Father tries to convey the notion that God is creator of All us mankind, and not just someone, or some group, trying to convey universality of one SOURCE of it all, be it mankind or the rest.
Peace
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Peace The_Chimp
Still the word is Abba and not Ab.
But because its have a long historie shouldn?t make it untouchabel for confusion or changes, due to somebodys agenda.
Anyway. We know that Jesus in many ways adresses God as The Father in Heaven. So I agree with you that it proberly hasn?t been changed.
Just looking for the posibility of it. Or any study conserning this issue.
Thanks for reply and links.
Ab and Abba are same words . . . it is mostly Ab - that is most usages of the word are Ab as that is the base/root word. So the Lord's Prayer, in Aramaic would be Abun - the nominative case.
But because its have a long historie shouldn?t make it untouchabel for confusion or changes, due to somebodys agenda.
Unlikely - the word Allah and its history is long and distinct and so is the word word "Ab" - for different reasons hey are very well researched by scholars of history science and language.
Anyway. We know that Jesus in many ways adresses God as The Father in Heaven. So I agree with you that it proberly hasn?t been changed.
The usage of referring to the almighty as "Father" actually is earlier than Jesus. . . . as Jesus was Hebrew - the jews used the word Avinu to refer to him . . . however they also use "El" and both are distinct.
Here is another compelling read.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father
Just looking for the posibility of it. Or any study conserning this issue.
No worries. I think you need a specialist language forum.
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Peace NielsJacob,
I think it is an error in translation and perhaps a deliberate error to suit the belief as Jesus as son of God.
"The Lord's Prayer" is a very righteous prayer where you ask God's help and that God's will be done. I usually say these phrases to God in my Communion. If you just change Father into Lord the prayer is fine to use when you want to call upon your Master.
There is nothing called "unislamic" or such. The only unislamic is when you call upon other lords than The Lord and commit evil and immoral deeds.
God bless you
Sorry - but you need evidence . . . and not notions that you make up in your head.
Jesus was a Jew. It is they who referred to the almighty as "Avinu" - not in a literal but metaphorical sense.
Here is a good article
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism
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Peace Man of faith
There is nothing called "unislamic" or such. The only unislamic is when you call upon other lords than The Lord and commit evil and immoral deeds.
You are right I regret that I called something like that.
"The Lord's Prayer" is a very righteous prayer where you ask God's help and that God's will be done. I usually say these phrases to God in my Communion. If you just change Father into Lord the prayer is fine to use when you want to call upon your Master.
Also here I?m on your side. Just its hard for me to change anything in this prayer. Its like its in my venes.
Anyway this prayer was my core belief, before I read the Holy Quran. I couldn?t get like you I think that the Christians had to accept Jesus as God. And part of the Trinity.
My background is somehow Christian, but I have never seen Jesus as God. Maybe because of this "Lords Prayer".I think it is an error in translation and perhaps a deliberate error to suit the belief as Jesus as son of God.
Many places in NT its like that. But in this case I think we need proof before we can conclude so.
God bless you too
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Peace The _ Chimp
The usage of referring to the almighty as "Father" actually is earlier than Jesus. . . . as Jesus was Hebrew - the jews used the word Avinu to refer to him . . . however they also use "El" and both are distinct.
Here is another compelling read.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_the_Father
In somehow you are right.
But the usage is not so common as you think.
Its only used ones in OT, refering to you own link.
The only place we find it is in Isaiah 6316.But yes only one is also enough.
Maybe this make Father accepted in prayer since Jesus according to HQ confirmed the OT.
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the TorahBut we dont have any authenticating of NT, so we can?t trust it like that.
So maybe we for now could call "The Lords Prayer" for Rightious and Islamic. Only the title gives me creeps (I wont use the word unislamic again)
God bless
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Evidence of what, the chimp?
Peace out
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Peace The _ ChimpIn somehow you are right.
But the usage is not so common as you think.
Its only used ones in OT, refering to you own link.
The only place we find it is in Isaiah 6316.But yes only one is also enough.
Maybe this make Father accepted in prayer since Jesus according to HQ confirmed the OT.
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the TorahBut we dont have any authenticating of NT, so we can?t trust it like that.
So maybe we for now could call "The Lords Prayer" for Rightious and Islamic. Only the title gives me creeps (I wont use the word unislamic again)
God bless
I am sorry - but I didn't understand your post that much - the English.
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Thus I said I think because I do not know. It ought to be some kind of error since Jesus is not the son of God.
Peace out
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Thus I said I think because I do not know. It ought to be some kind of error since Jesus is not the son of God.
Peace out
Saying "I think" does not excuses you at all . . . neither is it a synonymous for "I do not know". "I think" tells you a person has to come to his opinion with some reasoning behind it.
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Peace The_Chimp
Sorry )
Summery
Father is only used ones in Torah.
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Saying "I think" does not excuses you at all . . . neither is it a synonymous for "I do not know". "I think" tells you a person has to come to his opinion with some reasoning behind it.
Well, the reason I think is because as I think you know is that Jesus is not the son of God so some error must be in there. Thus why "I think" there is an error in the before-mentioned. Is that something you have to argue this much about?
Peace out
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Well, the reason I think is because as I think you know is that Jesus is not the son of God so some error must be in there. Thus why "I think" there is an error in the before-mentioned. Is that something you have to argue this much about?
Peace out
Look - I have helped you . . . do you know what the word "arrogant" means?
"having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities."
You know full well the limit of your abilities . . . yet the amount you pretend and then are pulled up short. So when you were accusing me . . . it was really projecting.
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Look - I have helped you . . . do you know what the word "arrogant" means?
"having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities."
You know full well the limit of your abilities . . . yet the amount you pretend and then are pulled up short. So when you were accusing me . . . it was really projecting.
It is interesting that such things are usually mirrored in the one who said it.
Peace out