How Do Hadith-rejecters Interpret 8:12
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Remember your Lord inspired the Angels (with the message) "I am with you give firmness to the Believers I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (Surah 812)
According to the understanding of orthodox Hadith-believing Sunni Muslims, this was a true historical event from the Battle of Badr.
According to Hadith history, in the aftermath of the Battle of Badr, the Muslims inspected the dead bodies of the disbelieving warriors and noticed that some of the bodies had burns on their necks, fingertips and toes. Since we Sunni Muslims believe that an army of Angels led by their general Gibraeel (Alaihe salaam) literally participated in the Battle of Badr, therefore this verse was literally fulfilled because those mysterious burn marks were the injuries inflicted by the Angels.
However, since Hadith-rejecters reject the Hadith and the history related by Hadith, so how do they interpret this verse from the Quran. I would be very interested to know.
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Nope.. that's why there are verses Allah ask us to ignore.. follow the straight path
The Deen of Islam concerns with obedience and human unity.
Irrelevant issues will bring tension in the society, and causing division.
O you who have believed
DO NOT ask about things which
if they are shown to you
will distress you <- "distress", factor that cause division in the society
5.101 -
Nope.. that's why there are verses Allah ask us to ignore
Allah tells us to ignore His own words? That hardly makes any sense. On the contrary, the Quran repeatedly appeals to the Believers to ponder over its verses entirely.
You say to ignore some verses of the Quran. The Quran never says that, it says
Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. (Sura 286)
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Allah tells us to ignore His own words? That hardly makes any sense.
The objective of obedience to Allah is to simplify life so that people from different traditions and backgrounds can share the value in Islam...
The society cannot unite if there are so many value conflicts in the society..
therefore, it does make sense...
from many nations, to one single nation..
this is Islam
Mankind was one single nation (2.213)
http//2.bp.blogspot.com/-WPiJfNpIlMY/UqLw0sK1jqI/AAAAAAAAAOA/l81jPOPrsio/s1600/versestofollow.gif
verse 5.101 and...
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/-9yRKTHjKCWA/UqMxPuEvK7I/AAAAAAAAAPk/-AsJiPfPojo/s1600/5-101.gif
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It seems you are someone who has gone even beyond the Quran-only movement and have crafted an entirely new sect which rejects or ignores verses of the Quran which you aren't comfortable with. My only question is where have you derived such a torturous and bizarre principle?
The Quran says it is a Book of guidance for the righteous. Al-Kitab means book (not part of the book), but the entire book from cover to cover.
This is the Book, there is no doubt in it, a Guidance for the Righteous fearers (Sura 23)
According to your position, it should be 'This is the Book, there is some doubt in it and some verses should be ignored, it is not a complete guidance for the righteous'
Now your only answer to this verse is to say that it should be ignored as well! LOL
In such situation all I can say is Qaaloo Salama (hope you know why)
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The answer is from the Quran and May Allah guide me to the straight path ..
The rules in the Quran have priority or sometimes known as Fiqh Awwaliyah...
The understanding of its awwaliyah (priority) and the ability to apply the rules at the right time, right place, right people for justice to the whole society... is "wisdom". Islam is not simply the matter of being right or wrong, but about just and balance as a whole (Sunnatullah).
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The answer is from the Quran and May Allah guide me to the straight path ..
The rules in the Quran have priority or sometimes known as Fiqh Awwaliyah...
The understanding of its awwaliyah (priority) and the ability to apply the rules at the right time, right place, right people for justice to the whole society... is "wisdom". Islam is not simply the matter of being right or wrong, but about just and balance as a whole (Sunnatullah).
Still you haven't quoted a single verse from the Quran to back up your strange and innovated new principle. I venture to say that this new principle you have created for interpreting the Quran (by arbitrarily ignoring so many verses) is comparable to tearing a book to shreds.
The Quran speaks about people like you when it says
(So also on such) as have made Qur'an into shreds (as they please). (Sura 1591)
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Still you haven't quoted a single verse from the Quran to back up your strange and innovated new principle.
I have already mentioned it from the start....
3.7
5.101-105
and also refer to 2.67-71
and 2.111-115
Book from your scholar - Fiqh al-Aulawiyat - Yusuf al-Qardhawiand the verse that are specific to your issue, ie. relating to history...
They will say there were three
the fourth of them being their dogand they will say there were five
the sixth of them being their dogguessing at the unseen
and they will say there were seven
and the eighth of them was their dogSay, , "My Lord is most knowing of their number
None knows them except a fewSo DO NOT argue about them except with an obvious argument <- "DO NOT" ... obey or disobey?
and DO NOT inquire about them among from anyone."
(18.22)and the verse that are specific to what is Islam
He has made plain to you <- Islam in a nutshell
of the Deen
what He enjoined upon Nuh
and that which We have revealed to you
and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim
and Musa
and Isa
that keep to obedience
and be not divided therein
Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. <- sectarianism
(4213)For you is your deen <- sectarianism, cf. 30.31-32
and for me is my deen <- living justly - cf. 3.67-68
(109.6)By the way and things you might consider.. Allah said the Book has no doubt (2.2), but the Quran has many issues that cannot be explained... the mutasyaabihaat. Refer also to (56.77-79)..
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The verses you quoted are from the Quran. But how do we know these verses are ones which should be followed and not ignored?
I mean when you say that some verses should be followed and some ignored, how does an ordinary Muslim determine which verses are to be followed and which are to be ignored? The whole process is arbitrary and whimsical, that is enough proof to dismiss it.
I've quoted several verses already which refuse your whole methodology of ignoring verses of the Quran. The Quran says not to believe in part of the book and reject another part, otherwise you will be disgraced in this world and in the next life. The Quran says not to take it into shreds. The guidance is clear.
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Here's a possible explanation
The term "mlk" is incorrectly thought to indicate one single particle type of being or creature. This is actually not so, because the word is a description of something, not a noun.
Take, for example, the word "jinn". It means "that which is unseen / hidden / occult". This is a description that could fit many things/beings.
A patch of land that is covered by trees is called "jannah" because the ground is hidden with the folliage.
The Arabic word for embryo is called "janeen", because it is hidden in the mother's womb, and hence unseen.
A crazy person is refrred to as "majnoun", because his mind has been made absent by certain influences.
A unsociable person who lives alone, far from civilized areas, and is rarely seen, is referred to as "jinni". This is very well known in popular folklore, where gypsies for instance, who dress in strange ways and behave weirdly are described as being "jinn" by the local populace. But the truth is they are human beings.
Very crafty people, who hold secrets or exhibit abilities that common people don't have, are also referred to as "jinn". This is why the Arabs of the old days, when they looked upon magnificent structurs or works of masonry that they could not reproduce, often claimed that they were bult by "jinn".As you can see, many words in the Quran are actually descriptive terms that have been mistaken as particular names.
Try appplying this to the word "mlk". Why is a king referred to as being "malik" in Arabic? Is there a difference between "malak" (which you falsely translate as "angel" and "malik" (king)? It is the SAME word .
Where you place the dialectic mark in is irrelevent to the meaning, here.
The king is called "malik" because he owns or controls something. There are "mala'ika"" (plural) that control weather, others that control thoughts and insipre people to perform certain actions, or withhold form doing certain actions. And there are also forces (human soldiers) that are so firm in their belief, that they own/control the battle field.
The word is a desription. It's not a particular name of something.
Going back to the subject of , it becomes very obvious that the "mala'ika" being mentioned here are certain soldiers from among Muhammad's (P) followers who were so steadfast in their faith, and fully prepared to fight for the cause of Allah, that they simply OWNED the battle field and mopped the floor with the disbelievers - so to speak.
According to the understanding of orthodox Hadith-believing Sunni Muslims, this was a true historical event from the Battle of Badr.
I have no problem with this. So let it be the battle of Badr. But if you are thinking of "supernatural" beings with wings and halos of light over their heads, then that's your own business. There are those who believe that the passage is speaking of strong, steadfast HUMAN warriors. And those who believe so are no less faithful and believeing in Allah than you are.
Peace...
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Peace Israfeel.
Regarding your question. Here is what I think abut it.
Angels are GOD s invisible soldiers.They carry out all HIS commands.Watching over humans, supporting the believers....
peculation how they do it is only a guess.
One thing for sure, God Is Doing Everything*
817
It was not you who killed them; God is the One who killed them. It was not you who threw when you threw; God is the One who threw. But He thus gives the believers a chance to earn a lot of credit. God is Hearer, Omniscient.Does this mean GOD came down among the fighters and killed the enemy? Of course not.
Same with your story about the angels fighting with the believers. We can at best speculate because we not understand the abstract and the spiritual.Peace to you.
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For Pazuzu
You have explained your interpretation that Al Malaikah does not refer to angels as I understand them, but special human warriors. However, let me refocus my question on the part of the verse which speaks about striking the necks and fingertips. What is the significance of this? Specifically, what is the significance of mentioning striking of fingertips?
Ordinarily in warfare you don't target someone's fingertips. Therefore I would like to know how you and others who share your ideology/views on the Quran interpret the significance of that if you don't believe in the concept of Angels as believed by us orthodox Sunni Muslims?
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The verses you quoted are from the Quran. But how do we know these verses are ones which should be followed and not ignored?
Firstly, by the requirement of further explanation and which does not related to obedience and human unity.
Secondly and by more advanced methodology.. free yourself from Shirk... refer here, and here is the standard required by Allah.
Reason... here is the formula, a step by step process.. must go through all this process to acquire "wisdom" from Allah. To learn how to balance life and the society.
It is He who has sent among the unlettered
a Messenger from themselves- reciting to them His verses and <- most people stopped here, reciting the verse until death..others, don't recite at all.
- purifying them and <- refer here, the standard required by Allah
- teaching them the Book <- teach ourself, exemplary leadership
- and wisdom <- the Sunnatullah
although they were before in clear error
(622)
He grants wisdom to whom He pleases
and whoever is granted wisdom
he indeed is given a great good
and none but men of understanding mind
(2269) -
Do you read verse 3.7 ?
key point -> "seeking an interpretation"
There are actually two established readings for the Surah 37, with the difference over the place for a pause.
You are obviously aware of the well known reading of 37, but let me show you the other reading also, the translation of it is as follows
But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge
Meaning, that Allah and those who are grounded in knowledge know the meaning of the Mutashabbihaat (the allegorical verses of the Quran).
Of course, those who are ignorant and have no knowledge do not understand those verses, and it is those people who try to interpret them in the wrong way who are astray and whose hearts are diseased.
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Yes.. I'm aware of that.. . verse 3.7 said
no one knows its interpretation
But those firm in knowledge say,
"We believe in it. All is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.It is clearly said "no one knows its interpretation"...
means, no one.. including those who are "firmly grounded in knowledge"
secondly, the subject matter is relating to the "reminder".. and there are double negative elements..
those firm in knowledge ... And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
therefore... it means ONLY those who are "firmly grounded in knowledge" will obey and take heed of Allah's reminder.. ie. they believe but ignore the mutasyaabihaat
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Yes.. I'm aware of that.. . verse 3.7 said
no one knows its interpretation
But those firm in knowledge say,
"We believe in it. All is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.No one knows its interpretation EXCEPT Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge.