Why so much tension on this forum?
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I apologise to be criticising, but even as a person who follows Qur'an only, I feel that there is a disproportionate level of tension, debates and complicated discussion on this forum. The Qur'an does not teach us to obsess over little details day in and day out, we should also be normal people who discuss normal activities in a pleasant way. I know that some people may think, "if you don't like it, just leave", but that is not the point. The forum is great but there should be a general pleasant atmosphere in a community based on Qur'an only, with a balance between discussing serious topics and other human issues such as work, life, hobbies, world, news, family, sport, cooking, creative arts, people's experiences, ideas, etc. I know that there are sections on this forum dedicated to such topics, but all I see when I come on this forum is debates, arguments and tensions about little details, with a very tense, serious and unwelcoming atmosphere.
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I apologise to be criticising, but even as a person who follows Qur'an only, I feel that there is a disproportionate level of tension, debates and complicated discussion on this forum. The Qur'an does not teach us to obsess over little details day in and day out, we should also be normal people who discuss normal activities in a pleasant way. I know that some people may think, "if you don't like it, just leave", but that is not the point. The forum is great but there should be a general pleasant atmosphere in a community based on Qur'an only, with a balance between discussing serious topics and other human issues such as work, life, hobbies, world, news, family, sport, cooking, creative arts, people's experiences, ideas, etc. I know that there are sections on this forum dedicated to such topics, but all I see when I come on this forum is debates, arguments and tensions about little details, with a very tense, serious and unwelcoming atmosphere.
I, I am the cause if it. If I went away . . . lot of it would. Although I am not the cause of all of it.
It is question of basic honesty . . . when people can no longer answer you . . . they resort to petty insults. Hence the tension.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Pardon some of the language, but I doubt that anybody's eyes will bleed out
http//knowyourmeme.com/memes/greater-internet-fuckwad-theory
Some amount of tension is normal, but great amounts are disruptive. Using the ignore feature can be useful to minimize habitual distracters. That, and thinking before posting--"Measure twice and cut once." Sometimes, I find myself deleting posts rather than posting them. But yes, it is human nature to confront like with like--and a snarky comment is going to attract further snarky comments.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Dear fellow human being,
You're 100% in your observation. There is indeed lots and lots of bickering, name-calling, accusations, misunderstanding etc on this forum. There is now and has always been over the years, and it always takes two to tango. We must never single out anyone as a scape goat.
It is indeed ironic, but not too surprising, that there is so much bickering. One would think that people who believe in God would be godly, good and peaceful.. rotfl .. but as we have seen in the world since the dawn of time... this is not the case.
The issue is to understand why this is happening, and this is the same thing as understanding the very nature of the human being. This is the trade mark of the human race... the crown of creation... rotfl
It is interesting to notice that the petty behavior shows up in all settings and groups... religious or not. The reason is that we remain human, whether religious or not. Most people have no clue as to how we, the human beings, function. It is however possible to increase one's understanding on this topic, for those who are interested. Self study, sincerity and prayers to God are required for this.
There is one way to approach peace and that is to learn about the ignorant and disastrous identification with our minds/thought-world that we find ourselves in. We think we are our minds, and we have totally forgotten that there is more to us than the minds. Even religious people who claim to believe in a spiritual self, often does so just in an intellectual manner. The result of this wrong identification with our minds, is that we are totally lost and controlled by the mind, without realizing it. This is why we are not peaceful and our minds respond and react to all sorts of petty issues, in an ever active stance of defence. We are force by the mind to act defensively, returning all the insults and injustice we feel we are subjected to. Ironically, it is just the way in which we perceive the surrounding that dictates how we react to it... so in a way, the reason for our reaction comes from ourselves. The glasses we wear force us to react the way we do. This however, we cannot accept. Instead we blame everything on the outside, the other.
I too, find it very ironic that people who discuss good behavior and the scriptures of God, keep falling prey to such petty and childish behavior. But it is not so surprising after all.... we are all human beings.... stuck in our blind and fearful minds.
A connection to God goes hand in hand with Peace... and disconnection goes hand in hand with irritation, confusion, blindness and misery. We are all disconnected from God, and our mission in this life is to reconnect, and that takes continuous work. But connecting to God has nothing to do with adopting a certain religious creed or dogma, and certainly not insisting other follow it. Connection to God is something you DO and experience first hand... it's not a theory.
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Peace Zulf,
I agree with you completely and feel I could have avoided engaging in useless debates.
God bless you
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Dear fellow human being,
You're 100% in your observation. There is indeed lots and lots of bickering, name-calling, accusations, misunderstanding etc on this forum. There is now and has always been over the years, and it always takes two to tango. We must never single out anyone as a scape goat.
It is indeed ironic, but not too surprising, that there is so much bickering. One would think that people who believe in God would be godly, good and peaceful.. rotfl .. but as we have seen in the world since the dawn of time... this is not the case.
The issue is to understand why this is happening, and this is the same thing as understanding the very nature of the human being. This is the trade mark of the human race... the crown of creation... rotfl
It is interesting to notice that the petty behavior shows up in all settings and groups... religious or not. The reason is that we remain human, whether religious or not. Most people have no clue as to how we, the human beings, function. It is however possible to increase one's understanding on this topic, for those who are interested. Self study, sincerity and prayers to God are required for this.
There is one way to approach peace and that is to learn about the ignorant and disastrous identification with our minds/thought-world that we find ourselves in. We think we are our minds, and we have totally forgotten that there is more to us than the minds. Even religious people who claim to believe in a spiritual self, often does so just in an intellectual manner. The result of this wrong identification with our minds, is that we are totally lost and controlled by the mind, without realizing it. This is why we are not peaceful and our minds respond and react to all sorts of petty issues, in an ever active stance of defence. We are force by the mind to act defensively, returning all the insults and injustice we feel we are subjected to. Ironically, it is just the way in which we perceive the surrounding that dictates how we react to it... so in a way, the reason for our reaction comes from ourselves. The glasses we wear force us to react the way we do. This however, we cannot accept. Instead we blame everything on the outside, the other.
I too, find it very ironic that people who discuss good behavior and the scriptures of God, keep falling prey to such petty and childish behavior. But it is not so surprising after all.... we are all human beings.... stuck in our blind and fearful minds.
A connection to God goes hand in hand with Peace... and disconnection goes hand in hand with irritation, confusion, blindness and misery. We are all disconnected from God, and our mission in this life is to reconnect, and that takes continuous work. But connecting to God has nothing to do with adopting a certain religious creed or dogma, and certainly not insisting other follow it. Connection to God is something you DO and experience first hand... it's not a theory.
Salaamun alayka bro,
Thank you for your wonderful words.
Salaam,
Bender -
Peace with you all sun
Thanks Zuluf for the statement, that's wonderful ) You took the words from my mouth
According to the statments of you all, this is a good example from the Quran
Surah 14 24-26
"Have you not considered how Allah presents an example, a good word like a good tree, whose root is firmly fixed and its branches in the sky?
It produces its fruit all the time, by permission of its Lord. And Allah presents examples for the people that perhaps they will be reminded.
And the example of a bad word is like a bad tree, uprooted from the surface of the earth, not having any stability."
God teaches us through Quran how to use language and have nice behavior. We may discuss, and we have to, but by mutual esteem and respect.Let's have peace people group, we have only this one life on the earth, why to make it so complicated and hard while God gave us and give us continuously everything we need for our contentment ...... sun sun
God's mercy is infinite. Praise to God the Mercifully. -
Peace Zulf,all.
mY earlier post fits here betterSome arguments are futile,especially when they become a tennis match of throwing faults/insults at each other.Why?
Because it is all irrelevant, Remember FREEDOM OF CHOICE guys.
We are absolutely free to believe or disbelieve in God. It is God's will that we will do freely, seeQoran 1829, 2557, 7319, 7437, 7629 God told us in the Qoran that He knows the future and He knows what everyone of us will do, what they will believe, how they behave and what they commit in this life, because He is God who knows the past, present and future.
God fully knows what kind of decision each one of us is destined to make; He knows which of us are going to Heaven and which are going to Hell. Even before we were born into this world, God knew which souls are good and which souls are evil.However, we are fully free to choose, either God or someone else. Because of this freedom we are responsible for our decision on the day of Judgment. We cannot blame our parents, friends, scholars,or GOD even though He knows the outcome or anyone. We can only blame ourselves.
So argue by what it is best.None of us can change/guide the other. Only GOD can do that.
Because of this kind of freedom God never forces His religion on any body,
Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?
If God was to force people to believe or disbelieve he would not have asked them about their choices and He would never have punished some and rewarded others. God is Most Merciful.The only benefit here is to learn from each other, take what is best and respect each other as per Qoran.
Discus the topics not each other.
Sorry for this off topic.God bless.
Peace.
Modify message -
Hello buddies!
Yes, just make this forum look more interesting!
It's simple! Go to off-topic section and just write in old off-topic threads that are either funny or interesting D ;D
I am also bored of engaging in debates that actually bring me nowhere.
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Peace All,
While I agree with good logic, es and Zulf I must admit that we humans feed on tension, which is not necessarily
a bad thing. If one would notice, the debates that get the most replies are the ones that piss people off,
controversial issues, sectarianism and correct understanding vs incorrect understanding of Quran to name a few.
Topics that do not have various points of view fizzle quickly like "I want to give my point of view about salat but
please no contrary rebuttles please" are gone in no time.The problem as I see it is the lack of humility, and what is the opposite of humility?.....arrogance or the satanic
influence in us. We must know that someone else can be correct! Some folks here at free minds never concede that
someone else is right, that is when the replies or relationships spiral downward which brings us to this thread.You shall not walk proudly on earth ?you cannot bore through the earth, nor can you be as
tall as the mountains.God bless
peace
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Peace All,
You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with
them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best
who are the guided ones.Even if we think that we hold the absolute truth, others should not be expected to share our views unconditionally.
The dogmatic approach is rarely successful.Humility is the antithesis of arrogance and is the only true wisdom by which we prepare our minds for all the
possible changes in life. The humble person realizes that whatever he has comes from God, and is thankful
for it. If you have been blessed with understanding, it is a gift from God and we do not receive our gifts
simultaneously. A manifestation of humility is gratitude. Absence of gratitude is a mark of an ignorant,
narrow minded, arrogant attitude. Only humility paves the way for us to appreciate what God has
done and that we have received blessings from God that others may have not have privilege to at the moment.
And where there is appreciation there is courtesy. When humility is lost arrogance and ingratitude can
take hold of us and instead of communion with others we create distance and tension no matter their faith
or way of life.Kind words and compassion are better than a charity that is followed by insult. GOD is Rich, Clement.
God bless
peace
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Peace,
Another reason for the tension in debate is that the arrogance of some creates a "fighting" atmosphere
which is unpleasant to some, energizing to others while boring many because such exchanges go
nowhere and are not productive, but the arrogant insist on "winning" by demeaning their counterparts in a
non-productive debate just to serve their egos.Sahih International 2/170 And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather,
we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were
they guided?God bless
peace
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I don't really use this forum anymore but I wholeheartedly agree with most of hawk99's comments. I didn't agree much with another person on this thread but I am no longer interested in debate so I will talk about this issue generally. In terms of the general issue of responding to things - it depends on the context. I have been talking in the past with some Neo-Pagans who actually hold some Islamic values and one was responding to the 'haters' as they are called to her online content. It made perfect sense for her to handle the matter in that way and explain the things she needed to. The reason it upset her the way this person was behaving and the way she dealt with it has a back story that I knew about but others might not have. It wasn't her simply 'responding and reacting' to stuff. It was an issue of justice, an issue of right and wrong and an issue of morality. She has been good to some of those people in the past as well and they were just out of order. She was right to do what she did and some could say she was 'reacting'. We have to be conscious of whether or not the observer of the action is actually making a fair appraisal of the events of the person they are saying is responding or reacting for example. God is the best Judge of course. Our attitudes, intents and innermost thoughts count.
The point about not being dogmatic that hawk99 mentioned is true. When I talk with those who are not dogmatic because of the way they practice spirituality, the discussions are better and more constructive. Dogmatic and rigid people are in all walks of life though whether theist, atheist, agnostic, spiritual or not.
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Peace supportpeacenotwar,
Nice to see you write again sister. Shame we do not see more of you here.
God bless you
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We have to be conscious of whether or not the observer of the action is actually making a fair appraisal of the events of the person they are saying is responding or reacting for example. God is the best Judge of course. Our attitudes, intents and innermost thoughts count.
Absolutely.
It is so very easy to misunderstand someone else. We do it all the time. Our own inner world, our own glasses, our experiences, make us see things in our very own way... and it is not easy at all to be totally objective. It's a good thing to practice not to judge others. It is wise to conclude that we might not understand the situation at hand as much as we think, and therefore our judgment will not be very accurate with reality.Also, people can have hundred and one reasons for reacting the way they do. Good types of reactions are the ones which result in some sort of overall improved outcome, whether it is someone realizing something beneficial, or something important being pointed out for the sake of e.g. justice. The most dangerous reactions are the auto-pilot ones... the one's we engage in by pure habit and internal conditioning, where reason has no place, and we might even do it when knowing the reaction is detrimental to us and the surrounding.
Peace
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Peace Family and welcome back supportpeacenotwar,
Ignorant which is the opposite of 1. literate. 2. learned.
Synonyms of ignorant
Ignorance is a major contributor to hostile discussion or debate rather it be one or both parties at fault.
All it takes is one side that has no clue and does not recognize the fact that they suffer from a lack
of knowledge about a certain subject along with the inability to draw a positive understanding due to prejudice.Here are some of the tactics used by the ignorant.
Ignorant Name calling
Ignorant Try to shame someone to accept one's position.
Ignorant Straying from the subject in an attempt to appear well rounded
Ignorant Saying "You people" nope will not get a positive response.
Ignorant "You are intellectually inferior to me" therefore you must listen to me!
Ignorant "My religion/deen is better than yours"
Ignorant Not knowing the meaning of concepts and words in a discussion but ignorant of that fact.
You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with
them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best
who are the guided ones.God bless
peace
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You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with
them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best
who are the guided ones.These are such wonderful words from the quran... and I hope the translation is sound and accurate.
We are, as far as I see it, invited to engage in communication with others in a manner which characterized by- humility
- fore thought
- compassion and understanding
- wisdom
- selflessness
By doing it like this, you will be cool headed enough to sense when it is time to stop debating and at what level to put the talk. Debating while serving one's own ego will not bring any real positive outcome. To achieve peace outside, we need to start with peace inside first.
D
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Peace Family and welcome back supportpeacenotwar,
Ignorant which is the opposite of 1. literate. 2. learned.
Synonyms of ignorant
Ignorance is a major contributor to hostile discussion or debate rather it be one or both parties at fault.
All it takes is one side that has no clue and does not recognize the fact that they suffer from a lack
of knowledge about a certain subject along with the inability to draw a positive understanding due to prejudice.Here are some of the tactics used by the ignorant.
Ignorant Name calling
Ignorant Try to shame someone to accept one's position.
Ignorant Straying from the subject in an attempt to appear well rounded
Ignorant Saying "You people" nope will not get a positive response.
Ignorant "You are intellectually inferior to me" therefore you must listen to me!
Ignorant "My religion/deen is better than yours"
Ignorant Not knowing the meaning of concepts and words in a discussion but ignorant of that fact.
You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with
them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best
who are the guided ones.God bless
peace
Ignorant "You are intellectually inferior to me" therefore you must listen to me!
Nah! What I say is . . . "I am intellectually superior than you" hmm
Not guilty of others.