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  4. Fight them until they convert?

Fight them until they convert?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • N Offline
    N Offline
    noble
    wrote on last edited by
    #41

    peace,

    Emphasis mine
    I don't get that impression from chapter 9.

    Peace

    Allah knows, we were not there...

    what I believe is that that surah is not a precendent for future rules of engagement, as the jihadists like to imply...

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    • F Offline
      F Offline
      FearGod
      wrote on last edited by
      #42

      Hi all,

      Although the Koran promotes fairness, justice and forgiveness, the following verses really stand out from the rest, and apparently go against the premise of "No compulsion in religion..."

      95 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

      911 But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge.

      839 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.

      929 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

      (from Pickthall)

      How can people who do not believe (and are at war) be expected to establish Salat and Zakat?

      Although other verses on war can be explained by considering the context, the above verses seem to defy explanation.

      I'd be glad if someone could explain them.

      Thanks...

      You have to read the history and how pagans treated Muslims at the start of the message.

      Islam is a way of life which was far different than the way of life that pagans used to live at that era.

      Pagans fought the message of Islam which was a message of peace to save the poor,free slaves,free women,save baby females who were buried alive,elimination of prostitution ..etc.

      So it was a war between good and evil and then the evil has to die for the good ones to be saved.

      The prophet converted that community from ignorance to a powerful Islamic empire at that era when the rest of the world was still in darkness.

      http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvNcU7bHgLs

      http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_ihf_oPvlg

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      • U Offline
        U Offline
        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #43

        Salaam bookish and all.

        It depend for who inteprete that verses.
        Actually that verses was used by some terrorist groups to judge their action, if u want to know.

        To intepret Scripture we must use wisdom thinking, not by hatred/one-sided prespective or pick one verse only and create hasty conclusion.

        All that verses, related well with the rule of war

        2190 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not aggress, God does not love the aggressors

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        • B Offline
          B Offline
          bookish
          wrote on last edited by
          #44

          This is also an uncomfortable verse

          556 O you who believe, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; humble towards the believers, proud/stern/hard/haughty/severe/firm towards the rejecters; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear to be blamed by those who blame. This is the grace of God, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

          None of the words are good words.....

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          • N Offline
            N Offline
            noble
            wrote on last edited by
            #45

            This is also an uncomfortable verse

            556 O you who believe, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; humble towards the believers, proud/stern/hard/haughty/severe/firm towards the rejecters; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear to be blamed by those who blame. This is the grace of God, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

            None of the words are good words.....

            why are None of the words are good words?

            also, it is not O you who believe, it is rather O you who have believed... think about the difference...

            and look at the context in which the verse was revealed...

            finally, being a Believer entails being tested, this is not a beauty conquest based only on looks... it is based on character, resolve, and big responsibility...
            Allah is addressing Believers...

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            • B Offline
              B Offline
              bookish
              wrote on last edited by
              #46

              I happened to go over the surrounding verses. The following verses (which come after the verses we are discussing) do seem to provide a context....

              95 If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

              96 And if any of the polytheists seeks your protection, then you may protect him so that he may hear the words of God, then let him reach his sanctity. This is because they are a people who do not know.

              Somehow the two verses seem to clash with each other...perhaps I'm missing something.

              Also, this

              861 And if they seek peace, then you also seek it, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.

              I guess it does not really mean to say that you keep fighting them until they convert...though the use of Salat and Zakat is interesting.

              But it really is easy ammunition for someone who wants to take them out of context and paint a picture that's not really there...

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              • F Offline
                F Offline
                FearGod
                wrote on last edited by
                #47

                This is also an uncomfortable verse

                556 O you who believe, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; humble towards the believers, proud/stern/hard/haughty/severe/firm towards the rejecters; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear to be blamed by those who blame. This is the grace of God, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

                None of the words are good words.....

                That is what happened with Jews when they turned away from the real message of Islam and they distorted the religion and named it Judaism and we may realize that by Baha'ullah who have changed his own religion to Baha'i faith instead of Islam.

                James 47
                Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

                Romans 103
                For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

                Recently Islam has been distorted and that was foretold by the prophet but still some believers will keep attached to the real teaching of Islam and the prophet called them the strangers because there life will be hard in a time which holding in Islam is like holding an ember.

                ?The person who sticks tightly to my Sunnah, at the time when the rest of my Ummah will be in a state of discord & disunity ? will be like one who is holding on with his bare hands to ember.?

                Watch the video to realize that we are living and observing the approaching of the end of times.

                http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu5py5rUCQk

                http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBQiCpjY49E

                The prophet while sick, asked the people to be gathered for his final speech(sermon) shortly before his death.

                http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Xc1MfX9X8

                In this state of weakness for believers, Allah will send a believers not among Arabs but they will come from the east mainly from Khorasan that no army can win a war against them.

                http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvEPmOOpg4w

                Peace

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