Quran - The reading?
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peace All,
Neither method is perfect. My preference would be to provide the best translation of a term in English (considering this is my primary language of communication), e.g. al quran ~ the reading.
Wakas
As'Salaam Alaikum,
This has been a most enjoyable thread to follow. After the initial 'heat' of some of the comments cooled I found it extremely informative. I find myself in total agreement with Wakas.
English is my primary language, the only one I speak fluently. I often refer to a Qur'anic dictionary to further my understanding of a particular ayatun, and to verify the accuracy of different english translations.
As a result of my study I would have to go along with the translation of Qur'an as reading or great reading. This is not solely based upon the translation of the word itself, but also along with the first command of Allah, "Iqra", as well as my understanding that there are ayatun throughout the system and order of Allah that must be read. In my Qur'anic dictionary Qara'a means to read, recite with or without having script, thus it supports the various ayatun that refer to the 'signs' of Allah throughout the universe for those with understanding. This would also safeguard us from getting to bogged down in the interpretation of words, allowing us to observe Allah's laws in nature itself and throughout creation.
This is just my humble opinion and understanding.
Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Salaamun alaikum guys,
To me, the concern is that we may fall into the same pitfall as the Christians who need to make great efforts in order to find the original text of the OT and NT (Ask Emyr of this forum, he'll tell you).
When we use a word, like 'al-quraan' and we scan its conceptual network, by reading contextual usage, the word will be impregnated with connected concepts and thus help us decode reality and ourselves much more efficiently.
shukran wa salaam.
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Peace All
I got this from quranic teaching on the meaning of The Quran
hope it will be of some help.The Meanings of the word QuranThe root of the word Quran is Q-R-A which leads to the following meanings 1. To put together, to collect together or to draw together; 2. To become pregnant or full of something; 3. To retain the seed of a male in the womb of a female; 4. To read, recite or rehearse; 5. To proclaim
The word Al-Quran has the following meanings
- "The Collection" so called because it collects and comprises verses, and chapters OR commands, prohibitions, instructions, glad tidings, warnings, facts and the like. 2. "The Sententious" so called because of being concise but full of meanings and abounding in aphorisms. 3. "The Seminal" so called because its constitution provides a basis for the further development of man's "self" or "personality". 4. "The Read and Recited and Rehearsed". 5. "The Proclamation".
Putting it all together, Al-Quran is
The Sententious and the Seminal Proclamation that comprises recurrently rehearsed commands, prohibitions, instructions, glad tidings, warnings, facts and the like.
Peace saleem
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Peace brother Saleem, all,
I got this from quranic teaching on the meaning of The Quran
hope it will be of some help.The Meanings of the word QuranThe root of the word Quran is Q-R-A which leads to the following meanings 1. To put together, to collect together or to draw together; 2. To become pregnant or full of something; 3. To retain the seed of a male in the womb of a female; 4. To read, recite or rehearse; 5. To proclaim
The word Al-Quran has the following meanings
- "The Collection" so called because it collects and comprises verses, and chapters OR commands, prohibitions, instructions, glad tidings, warnings, facts and the like. 2. "The Sententious" so called because of being concise but full of meanings and abounding in aphorisms. 3. "The Seminal" so called because its constitution provides a basis for the further development of man's "self" or "personality". 4. "The Read and Recited and Rehearsed". 5. "The Proclamation".
Putting it all together, Al-Quran is
The Sententious and the Seminal Proclamation that comprises recurrently rehearsed commands, prohibitions, instructions, glad tidings, warnings, facts and the like.
Let me repeat here what I have said elsewhere for the benefit of this discussion.
Dictionaries are useful tools if people know their limitations and know how to use them intelligently and how to verify and cross-check the information in them. I suggest that as a rule people should at least see what meaning from the dictionary fits best in all the verses. For example, one can easily compare the following and see which is correct and which is not logical
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And when the compilation is compiled listen to it and pay attention...
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And when the reading is read listen to it and pay attention...
Clearly, in the context of "listening and paying attention" reading is logical while compilation or collection doesn't make any sense.
"Sententious" and "Seminal" are secondary derived conclusions and are not meanings. In other words, one must READ it first to see if it is useful, sententious, seminal, etc.
Here is another example
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and when the compilation is compiled on them they don't prostrate/hear and obey
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and when the reading is read on them they don't prostrate/hear and obey
Clearly, "the compilation is compiled on them" is not logical while "the reading is read on them" is logical.
You can look at many other verses such as 1745-47 where like 8421 the meaning of compilation leads to nonsense and 7517 where the synonyms compilation and gathering being together leads to illogical redundancy.
Again, I have said that before but let me advise people here not to accept the dictionaries as perfect. The dictionaries contain many errors and misclassifications.
An example of misclassification is the word quru' in 2228 that is misclassified under Q-R-'A when it should be under Q-R-W. The word quru' is where the wrong meaning of "quran" as "gathering/compilation" seems to have arose out of.
At any rate, translating "quran" as "compilation" is better than not translating it at all. Although for now some people are not aware or don't yet see the logical errors created by such translation, eventually, people will come to see what meaning fits better in all the verses. But if they didn't translate it then there is no chance of ever seeing the error in their understanding.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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salams all,
Nice to see the discussions going on. I am still busy unfortunately, but I wanted to add a few comments of my own.
As far as the recommendation in our discourses, to use the translated English words instead of the original Arabic, I disagree for several reasons.
First and foremost, to me it is a declaration of our ongoing failure to re-establish Arabic, and the ongoing subjugation of our minds to the English language. I do not see any advantage to providing translated words instead of the word Quran or Muslim, etc. When the Jew speaks of his book, he calls it the Torah and everyone understands... the Christian calls it the Bible and everyone understands... they might not know the in-depth entymology, but those who are interested will investigate and learn it. The same goes for the word Quran... the HUGE majority of people know what is being referred to by the term "Quran," and yes there may be some confusion as to our exact interpretation of that word, but that is a weakness due to our dependence on the English language and lack of fluency in CLASSICAL Arabic (modern Arabic is almost as useless as English).
Not only that, but what is the point of having several interpretations of the word Quran, and then each of us calling it based on that, thus referring to it with several different names.. this would be a little confusing. It is so much simpler to just call it the Quran (understanding the our interpretation of the word is different), and then if anyone is interested, have a discussion on the meaning of the word if need be. But the word to use should still be Quran.
And br Ayman, you listed several verses where you are adhering to a strict translation of the verb Qa-ra-a' to mean only the English term "compilation," though I never suggested this. Remember that the lexicons also mention that qa-ra-a' can mean to read and also proclaim. I think we can determine which meanings based on the context. The overall majority of derivations still adhere more closely to the concept of compilation, but from there you get qiraa'atu which is a collection of words/sentences and thence you get the meaning of reading.
wassalam
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Peace be upon you Shuiab,
First and foremost, to me it is a declaration of our ongoing failure to re-establish Arabic, and the ongoing subjugation of our minds to the English language. I do not see any advantage to providing translated words instead of the word Quran or Muslim, etc. When the Jew speaks of his book, he calls it the Torah and everyone understands... the Christian calls it the Bible and everyone understands...
We are not trying to re establish Arabic, we are trying to re establish TRUTH. The TRUTH that we must all live by, that is what is being established. This reading just happens to be sent down in Arabic. That does not mean that the message is only understood in Arabic. This is the same message that has been coming down from the beginning of time. Then there was a group who corrupted it, they TITLED the message corrupted message "Torah", then another group did the same and tiotled thier corrupted form "Bible", with its many parts still missing.
Let us not support the VERY SAME corruption of the message and give a TITLE to that which is above titles. Lets keep a description as a description.
Making descriptions into TITLES is the VERY ENSLAVEMENT of our minds that we are here to FREE.
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Peace brother Shuaib,
Nice to see the discussions going on. I am still busy unfortunately, but I wanted to add a few comments of my own.
Nice to see you back in this important discussion.
First and foremost, to me it is a declaration of our ongoing failure to re-establish Arabic, and the ongoing subjugation of our minds to the English language.
This is an English forum for people who are either bilingual or speak only English. We are to deliver the message as best as we can in the language of the people we are communicating with. I happen to live in the states where everybody speaks English and hence I debate in English but when I visit the middle east I debate in Arabic.
I do not see any advantage to providing translated words instead of the word Quran or Muslim, etc. When the Jew speaks of his book, he calls it the Torah and everyone understands...
No they don't understand. The fact is that what is presently named Torah is not the book of laws talked about in the great reading. People, (including you apparently) were deceived by the proper name and they think that it is the same book being talked about in the great reading.
the Christian calls it the Bible and everyone understands...
No they don't, exactly like the Jews.
the HUGE majority of people know what is being referred to by the term "Quran,"
No they don't. 90% of the Sunnis that I have spoken to have not read the great reading. When I debate with Sunni Arabic speakers, 90% of them swear that stoning for adulterers is found in the great reading. They don't know that it is called the reading because it is supposed to be read. Hence, instead of reading it, they hang pages of it on their walls to ward of evil and magic and they leave it on their shelves and in their cars to gather dust.
and yes there may be some confusion as to our exact interpretation of that word, but that is a weakness due to our dependence on the English language and lack of fluency in CLASSICAL Arabic (modern Arabic is almost as useless as English).
From the discussions going on here, there seems to have been a lot of confusion that hopefully got cleared when the wrong meaning was shown to be illogical in the context of the verses.
Not only that, but what is the point of having several interpretations of the word Quran, and then each of us calling it based on that, thus referring to it with several different names.. this would be a little confusing. It is so much simpler to just call it the Quran (understanding the our interpretation of the word is different), and then if anyone is interested, have a discussion on the meaning of the word if need be. But the word to use should still be Quran.
The best meaning will become apparent. People who don't understand the meaning of "quran" are actually more confused than those who translate it. This is evident by talking to the majority of Sunnis.
And br Ayman, you listed several verses where you are adhering to a strict translation of the verb Qa-ra-a' to mean only the English term "compilation," though I never suggested this. Remember that the lexicons also mention that qa-ra-a' can mean to read and also proclaim. I think we can determine which meanings based on the context. The overall majority of derivations still adhere more closely to the concept of compilation, but from there you get qiraa'atu which is a collection of words/sentences and thence you get the meaning of reading.
We have to obey The God. When The God tells us "iqra'a bism rabika", does this mean that we should go collect/compile words and sentences?
The words and sentences are already compiled and what good does compiling them do if they are left to gather dust on someone's shelve?
The command in 961 is clearly to "read" the great reading.
If people knew the meaning of "quran"/reading and don't take it as a meaningless label then the majority of so-called Muslims would have actually read it and wouldn't have relied on their Mullahs to read it for them and wouldn't have been amongst the most illiterate and ignorant people of the world.
Peace,
Ayman
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salam guys
idolfree, i understand where you are coming from, but the point is that the only message that we KNOW to be 100% true is the Quran. Something that is only 99% true is 100% false. That is why I personally feel it is important to go back to an Arabic standard, because of all languages, that is the one we should be the most fluent in and make a living rather than a dead language.
when I visit the middle east I debate in Arabic.
you go to the middle east and debate in Arabic? I'm impressed!
The fact is that what is presently named Torah is not the book of laws talked about in the great reading.
I understand your point, but that's not what I meant. I meant that the jews have a book that they consider holy, and they call it the Torah. Yes it's not the same torah, and in fact it's probably more a hadith of the torah but still, when a jew says "the torah," they all know what he is referring to. Same thing goes for the Christian. It's been this way for centuries and has not caused confusion in intra or inter-religious discussion... on the other hand if they just referred to their books with general terms (such as reading) there clearly confusion could result.
I wrote
the HUGE majority of people know what is being referred to by the term "Quran,"
Ayman wrote
No they don't. 90% of the Sunnis that I have spoken to have not read the great reading. When I debate with Sunni Arabic speakers, 90% of them swear that stoning for adulterers is found in the great reading. They don't know that it is called the reading because it is supposed to be read. Hence, instead of reading it, they hang pages of it on their walls to ward of evil and magic and they leave it on their shelves and in their cars to gather dust.
I understand your point but when I meant was not that the huge majority understood the linguistic meaning of the word Quran... i meant what is being referred to, which is quite simply the book that was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad that we all have in our houses. If you ask someone, "Bring me a Quran," do you think that 90% of sunnis will be clueless? They may not have a clue what's in the book or what the word Quran itself means linguistically, but they know what is being referred to when the word Quran is used.
We have to obey The God. When The God tells us "iqra'a bism rabika", does this mean that we should go collect/compile words and sentences?
Well, again you're sticking too strictly to the English word compile/collect. Like I said before, qara-a also has a meaning of to declare. Note, that the verse doesn't say IQRA-A-HU, BI-ISMI RABB... It says IQRA BI-ISMI RABB... that's a minor point and this is purely my own understanding... but I would think that this verse is a command to declare/promulgate the name/idea of our nourisher (rabb) who has created us.
If people knew the meaning of "quran"/reading and don't take it as a meaningless label then the majority of so-called Muslims would have actually read it and wouldn't have relied on their Mullahs to read it for them and wouldn't have been amongst the most illiterate and ignorant people of the world.
Well I think that's being a bit optimistic. I think most Muslims understand that they ought to read the Quran, that is one of the first things any convert I have met tries to do. I think people dont read it because they just dont want to, are lazy, etc etc etc.
On the other hand, the non-Arabs, particularly the Indian subcontinent. That's the OTHER extreme... where no one understands Arabic, but every single kid has read the Quran by age 10 and usually even younger... and whenever anyone dies groups form to finish reading the entire Quran... etc etc etc. Are these people much better than the ones who don't read it at all?
wassalam
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Peace Shuaib,
On the other hand, the non-Arabs, particularly the Indian subcontinent. That's the OTHER extreme... where no one understands Arabic, but every single kid has read the Quran by age 10 and usually even younger... and whenever anyone dies groups form to finish reading the entire Quran... etc etc etc. Are these people much better than the ones who don't read it at all?
I am gald that you see the problem of not translating terms. Both people are equally clueless. Reading must involve understanding. People will not submit/hear and obey if they can't understand (17107). Hence, translation is a must.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace all,
Every individual knows that any book is meant to be read. Every book distinguishes from the other by its title or name. "The reading" can be referred to just any book and not just the revelation or scripture, hence to read. The Quran, by its title/name, is one such book to be read, distinguished by all others. This is not only an inevitable fact but plain common sense.
Some here are trying hard to denounce the title/name given to GOD's Revelation as Quran, perhaps not knowing well enough that "The Reading" becomes just another title/name that many are addressing as such, only to find out that its now been given an uncertain and meaningless English title.
Perhaps its time that some here should change their own given names/titles to whatever they mean specifically in English and have everyone call them as such, hence twisting and twitching with "meaningful titles" brought about. lol
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Peace Danish, all,
Some here are trying hard to denounce the title/name given to GOD's Revelation as Quran,
Who gave it that name? Is there any verse that says that the name of the great reading is Quran?
perhaps not knowing well enough that "The Reading" becomes just another title/name that many are addressing as such, only to find out that its now been given an uncertain and meaningless English title.
You are right The Reading is just another empty title like Quran. On the other hand, the great honorable reading is a description not a title.
Perhaps its time that some here should change their own given names/titles to whatever they mean specifically in English and have everyone call them as such, hence twisting and twitching with "meaningful titles" brought about. lol
I am sure that Danish, like Ayman has some meaning when translated in English. I am also sure that unlike the great reading that meaning is not a true description of that person but is a meaningless label.
I hope this helps,
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace be upon you Danish,
Which verse says that this writing is called "Quran"? There are many descriptions for this writing, how do you differentiate between them and selct one as the leader? (similar to how people take one messenger and differentiate and make him the greatest messenger).
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Peace Ayman,
Some here are trying hard to denounce the title/name given to GOD's Revelation as Quran,
Who gave it that name? Is there any verse that says that the name of the great reading is Quran?
Honestly and sincerely I do not know WHO gave the Quran its name. The fact remains that GOD's Revelation is called/titled/named as Quran, by its proper designation and identity. Not only the Muslims but the entire world are familiar for what Quran stands for; a NAME/TITLE of a revelation, like Torah and Injeel. Remember, the Torah and Injeel came centuries before the Quran did and were called just that before the advent of "Islam". Are you saying that all pervious revelations must now be called "The Reading" in English? If not, then what names/titles were given to previous scriptures if at all?
Likewise, is there any verse that says that the name or title of Quran is now changed to mean "The Great Reading".
perhaps not knowing well enough that "The Reading" becomes just another title/name that many are addressing as such, only to find out that its now been given an uncertain and meaningless English title.
You are right The Reading is just another empty title like Quran. On the other hand, the great honorable reading is a description not a title.
There's no such thing as empty title. Every book on earth has a title without being empty. Can you name a book that has no title?
Perhaps its time that some here should change their own given names/titles to whatever they mean specifically in English and have everyone call them as such, hence twisting and twitching with "meaningful titles" brought about. lol
I am sure that Danish, like Ayman has some meaning when translated in English. I am also sure that unlike the great reading that meaning is not a true description of that person but is a meaningless label.
Whatever the meanings, the fact remains that my name/title given is Danish, the same applies to you and everyone and everything on earth, including GOD's revelation - Quran. A simple common sense and no need for anyone to beat around the bush to twist its name to something else not properly understood and supported. I might as well give the Quran other meanings for what it stands out to be, such as, "The Message", "The Revelation", "Final Scripture", "GOD's Book", "The One and Only", etc., etc. Whatever the case may be, the name and title given remains the Quran.
This debate is simply getting too wacky and senseless.
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Peace Kyle,
Peace be upon you Danish,
Which verse says that this writing is called "Quran"? There are many descriptions for this writing, how do you differentiate between them and selct one as the leader? (similar to how people take one messenger and differentiate and make him the greatest messenger).
None. Likewise, which verse says that this writing is called "The Reading"? There may be many descriptions and meanings to this writing or any other name/title for that matter, the fact remains and will remain that this writing is given an identity, a name, a title, called Quran. The same scenario applies to your own and others names.
For what I have witnessed in your posts, is that every Arabic proper name (a proper noun) is now changed, twisted and given an English common name/title. How convenient? Might as well change all proper Arabic names to English meanings and start addressing them as such. This includes all names/titles of previous scriptures, all Muslim names, all books having Arabic or Muslim titles, and so forth. Perhaps the Arabic proper nouns (names and titles) have no significance but English ones does. Besides, as you had previously pointed out that you don't possess enough knowledge in Arabic language and linguistics, which speaks volumes.
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peace be upon all,
I agree with Ayman and Idolfree, in the light of these signs (ayat) the word "quran" is not just some title but other books can be a "quran" as well
619, 7204, 123, 1741, 1789, 1854, 2530, 2776, 3058, 3927, 4331, all say "this quran" meaning there are other readings
1015 the disbelievers say "bring a quran other than this" if the word Quran was a unique title to The God's book then why would they say "a quran", obviously to the Arabs the word quran held a meaning and should be translated
122, 20113, 427 says the God's book is an Arabic quran, implying there are qurans in other languages and even in the language itself
1331, 17106, 3669, 3928, 413, 4144, 433, 5677 "a quran" is used, clearly this is not a title ascribed to one book
151 "a clear quran", that means there are "unclear qurans" as well
1587 the words "the great reading", so much for all of your condemnations of Ayman using this phrase
1788 says human and jinns "cannot produce a quran like this" therefore we can produce a "quran" or reading as well but not like The God's
8521 "a glorius quran"
721 "a wonderful quran"obviously "quran" is not a title but can be applied to other things that carry the meaning of "quran" itself which is reading and not compilation which would be clearly illogical in the context of the ayat (signs)
in response to those that say "al" coming before "quran" proves that its title is The Quran my response is-does 2185 mean the title of The God's book is Al Firqan? there are many others like that, thats just one example among dozens
another argument is that the repition of The God's book being called "Al-Quran" should signify that the name is "Al-Quran", in response to this I say then by your logic "Al-Kitab" should be the name
after all this analysis I see no other reason why some people in this thread stick to the name "Al-Quran" as the title of The God's book other then the fact that they can't let go of their traditional ways, to those I speak of keep these signs (ayat) in mind
He said ?An affliction and wrath shall befall you from your Lord. Do you argue with me over names which you and your fathers have created with no authority being sent down by God? Wait then, and I will wait with you.? (771)
"What you serve besides God is nothing but names which you have created you and your fathers, God did not send down any authority for such. The judgment is for none but God. He ordered that none be served but He. That is the true system, but most of mankind do not know.? (1240)
Have you considered Allaat and Al-`Uzzah? And Manaat, the third one? Do you have the males, while He has the females? What a strange distribution! These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. God never authorized such. They only follow conjecture, and personal desire, while the guidance has come to them from their Lord. Or shall the human being have what he wishes? To God belongs the Hereafter, and the world. And there are many Angels in heaven, who have no power to intercede, except after God gives permission for whom He wishes and is satisfied with him. Those who disbelieve in the Hereafter have given the Angels feminine names. While they had no knowledge about this; they only followed conjecture. And conjecture is no substitute for the truth. (5319-28 )
peace and God knows best
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salam idris,
i just wanted to respond to the verses you posted.
619, 7204, 123, 1741, 1789, 1854, 2530, 2776, 3058, 3927, 4331, all say "this quran" meaning there are other readings
That is a very big conjecture on your part. At any rate, at the time the Quran was being revealed, the word Quran was an Arabic word.. this is not a word created solely for the book of Prophet muhammad. Hatha just specifies that it is THIS that is being referred to by the term Quran, NOT whatever else the Arabs used it for in their day and age... this does not in ANY way imply that there are other books of revelation called Quraan.
1015 the disbelievers say "bring a quran other than this" if the word Quran was a unique title to The God's book then why would they say "a quran", obviously to the Arabs the word quran held a meaning and should be translated
To claim that this verse implies there are other Qurans is actually totally unwarranted. Throughout the Quran the disbelievers say things like, well bring a Quran that can do miracles, or bring a Quran but change this or just bring a different Quran... this just means that they are not satisfied with the Quran revealed to the Prophet... it in NO WAY implies that IN REALITY there exist other Qurans that the disbelievers knew about and were asking for.
122, 20113, 427 says the God's book is an Arabic quran, implying there are qurans in other languages and even in the language itself
Again, this claim is unwarranted. The verse is saying that the Quran was revealed in Arabic... and you are taking that statement and inferring that Qurans must exist in other languages??? Perhaps your confusion is because you are basing your understanding purely on the english translation... Yusuf ali words it "We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an," but a closer translation would be "We have sent down the Quran in Arabic." As you can see, these verses actually go AGAINST your point.
1331, 17106, 3669, 3928, 413, 4144, 433, 5677 "a quran" is used, clearly this is not a title ascribed to one book
151 "a clear quran", that means there are "unclear qurans" as well151 "a clear quran", that means there are "unclear qurans" as well
This is a huge jump to a conclusion... you are too concentrated on the word "A" vs "the"... these are purely English concepts that are simulated in Arabic but it is not the same... at any rate, to claim that because in some verses the Quran was not called al-Quran, that therefore there must be other Qurans out there, is a huge inference... and your interpretation is by no means by itself convincing.
1587 the words "the great reading", so much for all of your condemnations of Ayman using this phrase
Actually, funny thing is that the words used are "AL-Quraan AL-atheem," not the great reading. So did you ever stop to think that if you are drawing such big conclusions based on the word AL, what does it mean when the Quran actually DOES use the word AL for Quran as in this case? And I don't think anyone here has condemned anyone for calling the book "al-Quran al-atheem."
1788 says human and jinns "cannot produce a quran like this" therefore we can produce a "quran" or reading as well but not like The God's
Again you fall prey to English translators... this is an unfortunate pattern here.
The actual words used are Qul la-ini ijtamaAAati al-insu waaljinnu AAala an ya/too bimithli hatha alqur-ani la ya/toona bimithlihi, which more closely translates to "If all the jinn and ins came together to produce something similar to THIS AL-Quran, they would not be able to produce something similar to it." That is much closer to the actual wording used. And again, as you can see, this statement in no way implies that Allah has used the term Quran for other books. All it says is if they tried to make something similar to it, they won't be able to.
And any time other books of revelation have been referred to, Quran has not been used for them.
Supplying numerous verses is not helpful if all we do is draw very wide and subjective conclusions.
As far as the idea of a label or title goes... well we are human beings and we like to name things... that is a fundamental characteristic we have. I don't recall a verse in the Quran that God says "Ismee Allah," My name is Allah. But we CALL him that because that is the most widely used term for him and used the most in the Quran. As for the Quran, it has been referred to by a few other terms but by FAR, it has been referred to as a Quran... so we call it the Quran. There is no harm in using this as a name... but as br Ayman suggests, we should not forget that this name is not a meaningless label, because it ALSO has a meaning.
wassalam
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Peace,
Great points there Shuaib. As mentioned earlier, regardless of what meanings are given to the word Quran (and just like any other words), evidently, the fact remains that this revelation is called Quran.
Like the word 'reading' fits nicely in basically all the verses in the Quran, so does the word 'message', which apparently stands out better than the word 'reading'. In any case, the name or title addressed to HIS Final Revelation IS Quran.
There is no other book called Quran, never has been and perhaps never will be.
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Peace be upon you Shuiab and Danish,
Do you realize that yuo are both afraid to even translate the word "quran"? Even as we discuss it you are afraid to translate, why?
Danish stated
Likewise, which verse says that this writing is called "The Reading"?No one, but who has given it the title "The Reading"? Certainly not me. I ALWAYS use the term "this reading(quran)", LOWER CASE.
It is a description, not a title.
Danish stated
Honestly and sincerely I do not know WHO gave the Quran its name. The fact remains that GOD's Revelation is called/titled/named as Quran, by its proper designation and identityHow can it be a fact when you said you DON'T KNOW? How do you reason?
Shuiab stated
As far as the idea of a label or title goes... well we are human beings and we like to name things... that is a fundamental characteristic we have.Yes, because we are in a world that makes things appear seperate, so we label things with named/descriptions, but the God is ONE and His message is ONE, so it needs no distinction of names, but we come to understand by the MANY descrptions that we merge into ONE.
I don't recall a verse in the Quran that God says "Ismee Allah," My name is Allah. But we CALL him that because that is the most widely used term for him and used the most in the Quran
The Creator has a name?!?!?! Far above names is the God. There are only descriptions of His qualities that we know and strive to bring out of our own being. Allah means "The God". It is the Arabic translation of the Supreme being, just as there are many other words used for other languages. To say that "Allah" is the God's name is blasphemous. Far is He above the things you associate with Him.
As for the Quran, it has been referred to by a few other terms but by FAR, it has been referred to as a Quran... so we call it the Quran.
Faulty logic. Please gather all the verses with the ARABIC WORD "quran" and do the work. TRANSLATE!
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Peace Kyle,
Do you realize that yuo are both afraid to even translate the word "quran"? Even as we discuss it you are afraid to translate, why?
Likewise, do you realize that you are simply afraid of names/titles, specially the word Quran and much of others. Besides, if I was afraid of translating the word Quran, I wouldn't be giving examples of meanings/terms above. Like I said earlier, I prefer the word "message" over "reading" when it comes to applications, and could mean revelation, scripture, reading, etc., so there goes your crooked reasoning to claim otherwise. The fact that Quran is a name/title remains.
Btw, are you afraid of people calling you by your name Kyle?
Danish stated
Likewise, which verse says that this writing is called "The Reading"?No one, but who has given it the title "The Reading"? Certainly not me. I ALWAYS use the term "this reading(quran)", LOWER CASE.
Regardless of what term/s you use, 'this or the reading' is called Quran.
It is a description, not a title.
Wrong. It is a title and given a description.
Danish stated
Honestly and sincerely I do not know WHO gave the Quran its name. The fact remains that GOD's Revelation is called/titled/named as Quran, by its proper designation and identity.How can it be a fact when you said you DON'T KNOW? How do you reason?
Sorry to say but what a foolish question. I don't know who gave you your name Kyle but the fact remains. I don't know who gave the planets their names Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, etc. either, but that's what they are called and the facts remain. Now must I dig in to find out about zillions and zillions of names/titles to each and every thing as to WHO gave them....you must be kidding me! Oh, and by the way, DO YOU KNOW WHO brought about and gave "this reading" the name Quran???
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Peace be upon you Danish,
I leave you with the hope that peace may be upon you.
Good "luck" in your following of titles.