doubt about the verse 33:56 in Quran ?
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Peace Sameer Ameer.
It kind of related to your topic. So my apologies to you.
Anyway, I hope you did not mind me answering brother Mazhar.
I will finish by saying, to some people satan does not exist and has no power even though
Satan will claim the majority
He said, "Since You have honored him over me, if You respite me till the Day of Resurrection, I will possess all his descendants, except a few."
Satan has no power over GOD s servants
"As for My servants, you have no power over them." Your Lord suffices as an advocate.
"Except those among Your worshipers who are devoted absolutely to You alone." He said, "This is a law that is inviolable. "You have no power over My servants. You only have power over the strayers who follow you.
He has no power over those who believe and trust in their Lord. His power is limited to those who choose him as their master, those who choose him as their god.
He said, "I swear by Your majesty, that I will send them all astray. "Except Your worshipers who are devoted absolutely to You alone."
May the Lord save us from " idol worship".
Peace.
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Peace on you too Good Logic,
Please take it as a joke man, i know it was related to the topic. Please keep posting. Thank you for posting and especially for the post reply#2.
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Peace,
Salutations, commemoration, revering a person, acknowledging the service rendered to humanity is never idol worshipping. But when such words are employed for the elevated Messengers of Allah the Exalted, it seems to certain people idol worshipping. Strange psyche!
What Satan advocates is written in Qur'aan. See therein whether he tells you to indulge in idol worshipping?
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Peace,
in 3356,
Even if we take the traditional false meaning for sallimoo as 'salutations'. Allah commands "Say salam". People replies- " You say salam" (Allahumma sallim)If we take the original meaning for sallimoo as 'comply/submit'. Allah commands " Submit to Prophet". People replies - " You submit to Prophet " ! (Allahuma sallim)
What a kufr and insolence is that...
When Allah commands us to "give zakath" or "do fasting", If our reply is "you give zakath" or "you do fasting", what an insolence would that be ?
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In 465, wa yusallimoo thaslima means only submit in submission/comply. The same is used in 3356. How is the meaning becomes into 'salutation' there ?
He said it should have been 'sallimoo alayhi' because in other verses of Quran, when commands to say salam, adds such 'dyothakams' (idk the english word for it), i think dyothakam means the words such as alaykum etc.
Another evidence-
When commanded to 'do salat', Quran models Allah. (ie Allah and angels are doing salat, o believers do salat) but excludes 'sallimoo tasleema' from it. The verse separates 'wa sallimoo tasleema', an extra job after 'do salat'.
If sallimoo tasleema meant 'salam', Quran would never exclude it. Because Quran already says Allah said salam(the greeting without prayer) to other prophets including nabi. So Quran should have say 'Allah do salat and say salam, o believers, you do salat and say salam'. But Quran didnt say it. Quran said 'Allah doing salat, o believers you do salat' and commands an extra job, sallimoo tasleema, comply to prophet , A job that Allah cannot do.
Anyway my main question is how the 'salutation' meaning comes in 3356, when its not in 465 as they uses the same 'sallimoo tasleema' ? And apart from sallimoo alayhi/sallimoo salama, do you have any other objections with the post reply 10 ?
Therefore; Your Sustainer Lord swears, they will not believe in the manner acceptable to Allah the Exalted until and unless they might consider and make you the Messenger judge-authority to decide in matters that have become hardened belief like entrenched tree amongst them the people of Book.
Afterwards; they did not find hesitative embarrassment in their thoughts about what you the Messenger had ruled-decided in accordance with the Grand Qur'aan . And they had paid you obeisance and salutations; respectfully dignifying.This was also an article of their Covenant.
Know the fact Allah the Exalted and His Angels render commendations upon the Distinctly Elevated and Chosen Allegiant .
O those/you, who consciously proclaim to have accepted/become believers, listen!
You are directed to reverently commend and attend to him. And you are required to submit to him salutations showing obeisance in a humble and respectful manner.The verbal noun "Tasleeman" is Form-II. It is Cognate adverb in the sentence.
A cognate adverb is a gerund with a meaning very similar to a mentioned action.
This adverb is used for one of three purposes
to explain the manner in which the action takes place.
to provide the multitude in which the action takes place.
to place emphasis on the action.The verb and the verbal noun are transitive, needing an object. The object is already mentioned by the second person pronoun referring to the Elevated Messenger.
commendations Praise of somebody's abilities; recognition of accomplishment. -
Peace Mazhar.
Let me be direct.
Idol worship cannot be disguised by Nouns, verbs, grammar... Elevating God s creation no matter who or what is idol worship.
Can you please explain what " Salla-llaho alaihi wa sallam" means?
What would you gain/lose by saying or not saying it?
What would the messenger gain/lose by you saying it?
It just does not make sense?
Now that the messenger is dead ?All of us who claim to believe in God should examine whether our beliefs conform to God's commandments and laws or Satan's corrupted religious decrees.
Belief in God dictates that we believe God, readily obey His commandments and believe, accept and trust what is written in God's Scripture.
The majority of humans, however, while professing to believe in God, have given themselves over to Satan.
The majority of those who believe in God do not do so without committing idol worship.
Please be careful brother some people do a lot of things that they think will benefit them, look what God says here
The allegory of those who disbelieve in their Lord their works are like ashes in a violent wind, on a stormy day. They gain nothing from whatever they earn; such is the farthest straying.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace
Only that logic is good which follows the norms and principles of reading a book and understanding the meanings of the text. Without knowing the grammar of language one can draw whatever he likes to understand. That would certainly be satanic style because he presumes at his own about his superiority without so declared by Allah.
Do you know why the verb is in Subjunctive Mood?
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And they had paid you obeisance and salutations; respectfully dignifying.
There is no mentioning of salutations, in this verse 465 in translations like yusuf ali,pickthall,shakir etc and all the other major traditional translations in quran.com. How in the world, salutation comes in this verse ? This verse is talking about accepting the judgement of Prophet.
Accept and submit to the judgement of Prophet and say a salam too ? Isn't this a desperate try to interpret 'salam' in 3356 ?
Why the people is commanding back Allah what he command the people to do ?
Isn't the wise thing is to pray for forgiveness to Allah for what happened and dont repeat it again ?
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But how? Please give your analysis of the words which forces you to understand it like this.
sorry, please correct me if its wrong. But my question is how the 'salutation' comes here ? Not even the major traditional translators have said that the meaning 'saying salam' is in there.
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sorry, please correct me if its wrong. But my question is how the 'salutation' comes here ? Not even the major traditional translators have said that the meaning 'saying salam' is in there.
Peace,
Yes brother, that was patently wrong. Let me prepare a write up for you. I will soon upload it, Allah the Exalted so willing. I will do it because the last sentence of the Ayah is the cornerstone of belief which is acceptable to Allah the Exalted.
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Peace,
Yes brother, that was patently wrong. Let me prepare a write up for you. I will soon upload it, Allah the Exalted so willing. I will do it because the last sentence of the Ayah is the cornerstone of belief which is acceptable to Allah the Exalted.
Peace
Ty, but first please answer these,1)Not even the major traditional translators have said that there's a command of 'saying salam' is in there.(465). How did you find a command to 'say salam' in 465, in extra to comply completly to Prophet.
2)Why the people is commanding back Allah what he command the people to do ?
3)Isnt trying to add a 'say salam' command in 465, is a desperate try to interpret 'say salam' in 3356 ?
- 3356 - Allah and his angels are doing salat(help&support) on prophet. O you believe, you do salat on prophet and comply completly. - What makes you think that this translation is wrong and the traditional meaning is right ?
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Peace
Ty, but first please answer these,1)Not even the major traditional translators have said that there's a command of 'saying salam' is in there.(465). How did you find a command to 'say salam' in 465, in extra to comply completly to Prophet.
2)Why the people is commanding back Allah what he command the people to do ?
3)Isnt trying to add a 'say salam' command in 465, is a desperate try to interpret 'say salam' in 3356 ?
- 3356 - Allah and his angels are doing salat(help&support) on prophet. O you believe, you do salat on prophet and comply completly. - What makes you think that this translation is wrong and the traditional meaning is right ?
The last sentence of the Ayah 465 is erroneously translated in perhaps all the available translations in English and Urdu languages. George Sale and George Rodwel had erroneously translated it respectively ", but shall acquiesce therein with entire submission."; ", and shall submit with entire submission". Afterwards, the translators borrowed the same translation. Erroneousness of the translation and thereby twist in the conceptual perception is evident when we see to which part of the declarative sentence, the conjunctions and conjuncts
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Individual%20Ayaat/004.%20An%20Nisa/65%20d.gifThis graphic representation of dependencies of words is the commendable work undertaken by the Leeds University. I wish Dr. Kais Dukes completes the project soon.
The third person masculine imperfect Verb of Form-II http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.071/1.%20Musallamatun%20Seen%20Laam%20Meem/41.gif is in Subjunctive mood and links back to subjunctive verb http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.032/1.Hakimo%20Ha%20Kaaf%20Meem/19.gif which is preceded by the preposition and particle of intention of the agent until and unless.
This sentence is the crucial element to render one's belief as acceptable to Allah the Exalted. The great significance in determining outcome subject to adherence to this course of action can be gauged by the fact that the Sustainer Lord of Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam has stated it swearing.
In the above graph there is a typing mistake. http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.071/1.%20Musallamatun%20Seen%20Laam%20Meem/37.gif It is not object of verb but is Cognate Adverb. The source book of syntactic analysis of the above graph states
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Individual%20Ayaat/004.%20An%20Nisa/65.gifA cognate adverb is a gerund/verbal noun with a meaning very similar to a mentioned action.
This adverb is used for one of three purposesto explain the manner in which the action takes place;
to provide the multitude in which the action takes place;
to place emphasis on the action.
Thus, the cognate adverb denotes that the act needs to be done in a very humble and submissive way fully acknowledging the most dignified and elevated stature of the Messenger of Allah the Exalted, Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam
Since this sentence incorporates the cornerstone of belief which is acceptable to Allah the Exalted, we should study it by cross referencing others Ayahs on this subject.
One of the Articles of the Covenant of the Sons of Iesraa'eel-the posterity from the second Son of Iebra'heim alai'his'slaam was
Please read further here
Grammatical analysis of 465
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The last sentence of the Ayah 465 is erroneously translated in perhaps all the available translations in English and Urdu languages.
Shocking.
Anyway thank you Mazher and Good logic for spending time to post in this thread. Peace.
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Shocking.
Anyway thank you Mazher and Good logic for spending time to post in this thread. Peace.
Thanks,
Free minds have also their translation. Many translators are still alive. My sentence has gone on the net. It is open to refutation by evidence by anyone.
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Peace Sabeel Ameer, Mazhar.
Also thank you both for your conversation.
I close by this warning. Clear and deliberate by the Lord to those who think they can elevate GOD s creation to a level they themselves have humbly declined
465
Who is farther astray than those who idolize beside God idols that can never respond to them until the Day of Resurrection, and are totally unaware of their worship?The Idols Disown Their Worshipers*
466
And when the people are summoned (on the Day of Judgment), their idols will become their enemies, and will denounce their idolatry.**466 See also Matthew 721-23 Jesus clearly disowns those who call him ``Lord.''
And
4628
Why then did the idols they set up to bring them closer to God fail to help them? Instead, they abandoned them. Such were the false gods they idolized; such were the innovations they fabricated.GOD bless you both.
Peace. -
Peace Sabeel Ameer, Mazhar.
Also thank you both for your conversation.
I close by this warning. Clear and deliberate by the Lord to those who think they can elevate GOD s creation to a level they themselves have humbly declined
465
Who is farther astray than those who idolize beside God idols that can never respond to them until the Day of Resurrection, and are totally unaware of their worship?The Idols Disown Their Worshipers*
466
And when the people are summoned (on the Day of Judgment), their idols will become their enemies, and will denounce their idolatry.**466 See also Matthew 721-23 Jesus clearly disowns those who call him ``Lord.''
And
4628
Why then did the idols they set up to bring them closer to God fail to help them? Instead, they abandoned them. Such were the false gods they idolized; such were the innovations they fabricated.GOD bless you both.
Peace.Peace,
This is because of a strange logic to equate idols with the Messengers of Allah. Idols are idols. See what these idols are
He said "But indeed brain muddling/fidgeting/ruckus and criminal cognizance has already become eminent-established upon you people by the decree of your Sustainer Lord.
Are you disputing with me regarding these feminine names which you and your forefathers have coined to personalize miscellaneous gods while Allah the Exalted has sent no affirmation-authority for it?
Therefore, wait for the promised thing to happen. I am indeed staying with you people awaiting patiently."Pl also see 1240 and 5323.
And please see whom people call
Are for them such feet with which they walk around?
Or for them are such hands with which they pick and hold things?
Or for them are such eyes with which they visibly perceive?
Or such ears have they created for them statues with which they are capable to listen?
You the Messenger pronounce "You invoke your associates. After having done it taking your time, you people conspire against me. Thereat, you should not let there be a respite for me."Please also reflect for few seconds about it. 6305
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Peace,
I think it has been misunderstood what an idol is. Anyone can be an idol of the Messengers of God. There are definite examples of Jesus and if there was another recitation revealed by God Muhammad could have been mentioned too. Messengers can be idolized.
That happens when we think they are infallible and superior like they are a kind of superman. They are normal humans that were devout servants that made them climb on the ladder like ANYONE can do.
God bless you
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Peace brother Mazhar.
I give you some credit for insisting on your ways. That is fine by me.
You mention verse , now move forward to verse
636
It is the same for them, whether you pray for their forgiveness, or not pray for their forgiveness; God will not forgive them. For God does not guide the wicked people.*636- Millions of people idolize their prophets because they elevate him to a position where they think he can intercede on their behalf .
Instead of concentrating on the message he brought GOD Alone, no partners, no idols!
My advise is to remember GOD Alone, as He is reminding you few verses later
639
O you who believe, do not be distracted by your money and your children from remembering God. Those who do this are the losers.But it is your choice brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
God alone I serve, to Him I will return.
God bless you