The current quranic text might contain some falsehoods!

truthseeker11

Peace be upon all of you,

CAUTION AND FAIR WARNING Only the extremely open minded should read on. The contents might sound blasphemous and/or shocking to some!

I haven't posted in this forum for about 5 years now but my quest for the truth has never ended and is ongoing. My search for the truth has led me on an amazing journey and I have discovered some amazing truths. For example, now I know that mermaids exist, and they have coexisted with us for thousands of years! I have a fairly good idea what our origin and role in the universe is, who the "jinn" are, why we and the jinn were created, what will actually happen when we die, what "heaven" actually is, what will happen on "day of judgment" and what its approximate time is, and where all the creation is heading towards. I also have a fairly good idea who the various aliens are, what their agenda is, and what UFO's and USO's are!

In this post I wanted to share some of my discoveries with you. I do not wish to indulge in any discussion or debate but I will try my best to answer any questions you might have. Just to clarify, whenever I use the words "the quran" in this post, I mean " the current quranic text", and not the original al-quran that was channeled to Muhammad, the prophet and messenger.

At one time I used to believe in the truthfulness and divine origin of the entire quran but I am not so sure now. In the past I used quranic verses as evidence and as one hundred percent words of the Infinite Creator in my discussions. I used to be an ardent proponent of its complete truthfulness and completeness and that it did not contain any falsehood at all but now I am starting to have doubts. Some things in it never made any sense to me and now I realize it could be because they were not the truth to start with! My current view is that most/majority of the quran is of divine origin and is the truth, but some part of it contains falsehood.

The quran itself encourages everyone to verify everything using their minds and reason.

1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and heart, all these you are responsible for.

This might be circular reasoning, but I believe this process works because it appeals to our built in compass. Using this process of verification, I have come to the conclusion that some verses of the quran might contain falsehood. Of course, I am open minded and I might be wrong, and I am willing to revise my understanding if faced with evidence to the contrary.

I have fallen victim to the logical fallacy of circular reasoning for most of my life! I would urge you to please see the following link

http//www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/67-circular-reasoning

Most of my findings come from external evidences outside of the quran. That is the only way to verify, otherwise if the evidence comes from the book itself, it would be circular reasoning. As per the quran

4153 We will show them our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your lord is witness over all things?

Before proceeding further, let me clarify what my current views and beliefs are. I KNOW that there is one Infinite Creator, an infinitely intelligent energy, which is omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal, all knowing, all loving, and creator of everything. Praise and many thanks to the one Infinite Creator in all its glory )

One question for everyone to ponder would be where does this one Infinite Creator end and anything else begin? Even quantum physics is theorizing that all matter is eventually made of quantum states of strings of energy. Matter and energy has been shown to be interconvertible. The next question would be, if that is the nature of creation, why did the one Infinite Creator create the creation?!

I also have the view that most of the current quranic text is divinely inspired from this one Infinite Creator, but unfortunately some of it is mixed with falsehood, and there could be additions to and deletions from the original text.

The two signs that are used as evidence to the quran being fully protected are as follows

159 Indeed it is we who have sent down the reminder (al-zikr), and indeed it is we who will preserve it.

4141 Those who have rejected the reminder (al-zikr) when it came to them; and it is an honorable book.
4142 No falsehood could enter it, presently or afterwards; a revelation from one most wise, praiseworthy.

Readers should note that these signs are talking about "al-zikr"/ the reminder and not the quran. Al-zikr is the truth and is divinely protected. Using one's mind and reason, one can easily discern which portion of the quran is "al-zikr" because it can be verified by an outside source and has no discrepancies in it.

One sign that indicates the quran being of divine origin in its entirety is as follows

482 Do they not reflect on the qur'an? If it was from any other than the god they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

This could have been true of the original quran that was channeled to Muhammad by Gabriel, and this sign would be applicable to that original quran. I have found at least three discrepancies in the current quranic text and there could be more because of all the mutashaabihaat that no one can conveniently understand. I will mention some of the discrepancies I have found below, and I have been unable to resolve those discrepancies even after years of study and research.

I think that when the quran was being channeled to Muhammad, most of the channeling was done by Gabriel which contains the truth, but some channeling was done by negative entities who disguised themselves as Gabriel, thereby causing some mixing with falsehood. In addition to that, some of the additions and deletions came later on after the death of Muhammad.

I will now list some of the thought processes, questions, and discrepancies that led to my current views about the current quranic text

Why did the one Infinite Creator create mankind in the first place knowing that a majority of them will go to hell for eternity due to that act of creation? Is the one Infinite Creator sadistic?
Is the one Infinite Creator a jealous Creator?

He allegedly says in the current quranic text that he will never forgive anyone who sets up partners with him

448 The god does not forgive that partners be set up with him, and he forgives other than that for whom he pleases. Whoever sets up partners with the god has indeed invented a great sin.
4116 The god does not forgive that partners be set up with him, and he forgives other than that for whom he pleases. Whoever sets up partners with the god has indeed strayed a far straying.

Strangely, this idea occurs only twice in the entire quran and both times in chapter 4!

The entire mankind is less than a quark's size in front of the one Infinite Creator. How can the entire mankind harm the one Infinite Creator by setting up partners with him that this is an unforgivable action? I can understand if there was another god and the god of the quran was jealous, then these statements might make sense.

Discrepancy alert How can the one Infinite Creator be the merciful when he will punish the MAJORITY/MOST of mankind in fire for eternity for setting up partners with him?

The Infinite Creator is the merciful and the forgiving. Countless signs including

13 The almighty, the merciful.
3129 And to the god is what is in the heavens and in the earth, he forgives whom he pleases, and he punishes whom he pleases; and the god is forgiving, merciful.

BUT he NEVER forgives those who set up partners

448 The god does not forgive that partners be set up with him, and he forgives other than that for whom he pleases. Whoever sets up partners with the god has indeed invented a great sin.
4116 The god does not forgive that partners be set up with him, and he forgives other than that for whom he pleases. Whoever sets up partners with the god has indeed strayed a far straying.

12106 And MOST of them will not believe in the god except while setting up partners.

So MAJORITY/MOST of mankind will set up partners and they will be put in the fire

572 Rejecters indeed are those who have said "the god is the messiah, son of Mary." And the messiah said "O children of israel, serve the god, my lord and your lord. Whoever sets up partners with the god, then the god will restrict the paradise from him, and his destiny will be the fire; and the wicked will have no supporters."

Is this a merciful and forgiving Creator who does not forgive the majority and punishes the majority?

Discrepancy alert Is the Creator needy? Does he need someone to serve him?

5156 I did not create the jinn and mankind except to serve me.

But the Creator is NOT needy. He is "al-samad", the one who fulfils others needs. (1122)

Why does the one Infinite Creator who is the all knowing, never mentions the Mayans, the Hopi Indians, the Chinese, the East Indians, Atlantians, Lemurians etc. who pre dated the quran and were very advanced, large and influential civilizations, and the messengers sent to them, and their history, and conveniently ignores them, when it is supposed to be a universal message for entire mankind? It has place for hundreds of "mutashaabihaat" verses which no one can fully understand but there was no place for a few verses about them?
Why does it focus only on the Abrahamic line of messengers and descendants of Abraham, and the history of a small part of the world centered around some Middle Eastern and African areas, when it is supposed to be a universal message for the entire mankind? Isn't that discrimination? Had it mentioned other civilizations, which is very easy for the one Infinite Creator to do, people would have been globally receptive to its message.

Proponents say it was sent to Arabs initially so it talks about things Arabs were familiar with at the time, but these proponents don't realize that a lot of verses such as the "mutashaabihaat" were not comprehendible by those same Arabs, so what was the point for including those verses?

Why does it seem to forget or does not acknowledge the fact that the sun remains above the horizon for 2 months or more, north of the Arctic Circle, with practical implications for salaat and sawm/abstinence? The timings of salaat and sawm given by it are impractical for people in those areas. Did the one Infinite Creator have no knowledge of simple astronomy or forgot about people living in those areas in a universal book?
Why does the quran condone killing of humans in the one Infinite Creator's name rather than non lethal ways of dealing with those situations?

95 So when the restricted full-moons have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they uphold the bond, and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. The god is the forgiving, the merciful.
912 And if they break their oaths after making their pledge, and they challenge the authority of your system; then you may kill the leaders of rejection. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease.

Proponents say it was only in self defense. In 95 "when the restricted months have passed" clearly shows they were not being actively physically attacked at the time they initiated their killing. In 912 the mushrikeen just broke the oaths and challenged the authority of the system, there was no active physical attack threatening the mumineen's lives.

Discrepancy alert Mohsanaat are forbidden except "ma malakat aymanukum" (424), then why is this contradicted in case of mothers of orphans (43)?
To my knowledge, brother Ayman was never able to resolve that according to his posts that I have read.
How can congenital deformities be explained? The quran never discusses this important issue. It would have been very easy for the one Infinite Creator to have shed light on this issue.
Why did the one Infinite Creator not clearly and unambiguously tell us how many salaat are the momineen/believers supposed to uphold in a day with unambiguous timings? He could have clearly told us whether there are 2 or 3 or 5 salaat in a day, and their clear timings. It would have been very easy for the one Infinite Creator to do.
Why did the one Infinite Creator not clearly and unambiguously tell us how many days the momineen/believers are supposed to practice sawm/abstinence? He could have clearly told us whether there are 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 or 30 days of sawm/abstinence. It would have been very easy for the one Infinite Creator to do.
Why did the one Infinite Creator not clearly and unambiguously tell us exactly when the restricted time periods start and end? He could have clearly told us that the first restricted time period starts with the shahr ramadaan, and it ends at the next shahr and that there are 3 more restricted time periods following the first one, lasting from one shahr to the next one. It would have been very easy for the one Infinite Creator to do. Then there wouldn't have been arguments/debates among intelligent people lasting more than 10 years with no resolution in sight!

The research that I have undertaken in the last few years has given me answers to all the above troubling questions, as to what the truth actually is and has resolved all those issues for me personally. I have provided some links for those who have the time and willingness to dig for the truth. It all started when I came across a post on this forum in 2010 by Tay

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601288.msg260755#msg260755

Most of the current quranic text is very much in line with the law of one.
I am very grateful for brothers Tay, OPF and Magi's posts from the past which were eye openers for me!

Background reading

http//divinecosmos.com/start-here/books-free-online/23-the-law-of-one-study-guide
http//www.lawofone.info/
http//www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1995/1995_1217.aspx
http//www.wanttoknow.info/secret_societies/hidden_hand_bloodlines
http//areyouseekingthelight.com/
http//www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=6108&highlight=Luciferian
http//www.divinecosmos.com/index.php/start-here/articles/332-law-of-one-and-2012-the-facts
http//www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?pid=33976
http//www.bring4th.org/forums/index.php
http//magazine.biola.edu/article/10-summer/can-dna-prove-the-existence-of-an-intelligent-desi/
http//srionline.org/the-source-of-everything.html
http//www.cosmicharmony.com/LightWorkers/ETWisdom/ETWisdom.htm

Codices of the quran

http//www.inthenameofallah.org/Codices%20of%20the%20Quran.html

Praise and many thanks to the one Infinite Creator in all its glory )

Peace

mmkhan

Salaam,

Your questions are valid on the basis of your understanding of the aayaat quoted. But that is not the case. Many of them are wrongly translated. Hence, there are many many flaws in you wrote, sorry.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

good_logic

Peace Truthseeker.

1- I read with interest what you wrote. Your 10 points can all be answered from Qoran. What you have to do is "truly believe" every word that GOD has sent and believe that GOD never run out of words

Say, "If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply."

2- You must not rely on anything else!

These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?
Woe to every fabricator, guilty.
The one who hears God's revelations recited to him, then insists arrogantly on his way, as if he never heard them. Promise him a painful retribution

3- Read the Book of God as if you never saw it before, read it with your eyes, ears and mind and REFLECT on every word that is being said to you... Take NOTHING for granted and do not allow anyone to make your decisions... For on the day of judgement, you will be standing alone and you will have to answer for your own deeds and your own choices.

4- Be very careful, on whose authority you are making your final understanding as GOD Alone is the explainer

Who are more evil ..., without realizing what they are doing. Consequently, we place shields on their hearts to prevent them from understanding it (the Quran), and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what you do to guide them, they can never ever be guided.

Keep seeking the truth.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Wakas

peace,

In addition to the above replies.

Your number 7 has been discussed on this forum before, see 2185 (those who witness the shahr) and to my knowledge the only plural reference with a salat timing is 2458, i.e. morning and evening.

re 8
For a start, see here.

re 10)
See 4817, 6416.
Interestingly, genetic mutations are necessary aspect of evolution.

re 11)
It is clear. It is a minimum of two daily for the mumineen. Other options contain multiple errors, e.g. see here.

re 12)
I have not studied it in-depth, but rather than a set number, a timing mechanism using easily observable cosmic phenomena is an option, and/or sometimes a set number is not required. For example, when it comes to one undertaking al hajj see here.

re 13)
Bro Ayman's article is a good start. I have not studied it in-depth but it could be due to differences in the northern and southern hemispheres, and/or possibly meant to be ordained by the community/authority.

truthseeker11

Peace be upon you brothers and sisters,

Thank you for your replies. May the infinite creator bless you all.

It may take millions of years but eventually ALL of us will return to the Infinite Creator and the illusion of separateness will disappear, irrespective of whether one is a mumin, or a muslim, or a mushrik. Some paths may be longer, some may be shorter but ALL paths eventually lead to the Infinite Creator. I am of the view that the path of service to others (STO) is the shortest and fastest and the path of service to self (STS) is the longest and most difficult. In the quranic terminology STO is the path of doing good deeds. Hence the most important thing is doing good deeds/actions/service to others, no matter what one's belief/view is.

I think there is no such thing as the Infinite Creator will NEVER forgive. I think he will forgive even the mushrikeen/polytheists/idolaters. Those 2 verses of the quran in chapter 4 are a red herring and contradict numerous other verses in which the Infinite Creator will forgive whomever he pleases. I don't think that a person who serves others all his/hers life and does good deeds all his/hers life but sets up partners with the Infinite Creator will burn in fire forever and will never be forgiven. That does not make any sense whatsoever.

I would like to clarify one thing that I don't believe the word "allah" can be translated to "the god" because the dictionary meaning of "the god" involves an aspect of worship. Allah does not need any worship. Therefore I refer to allah as "the infinite creator" or "the infinite intelligent energy" and not as "the god".

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Brother I join you in that prayer and I hope all of us can be on the STO/good deeds path.

What you have to do is "truly believe" every word that GOD has sent

I completely agree but it truly has to be the infinite creator's word. How do we know that a particular verse of the quran is truly the word of the infinite creator or a falsehood? If I believe that the current quran is the infinite creator's word in its entirety just because it says so, then that would be circular reasoning.

There is another problem also. Let's say, for example, that a book A actually contained the infinite creator's word in its entirety when it was revealed/channeled. Then later on 4 different people copied it and each of their copies contained some differences. Then some person arbitrarily chose one of those copies and declared it to be the original word of the infinite creator in its entirety, and that copy survived. Later on, none of the original book, or its 3 other original copies survived. Scientifically speaking, how can one be sure that the surviving copy is actually the same as the original book in its entirety?

The original book A contained a sentence that "this book is the infinite creator's word". Then later on someone added some falsehood to it while making a copy. The book will still contain the sentence "this book is the infinite creator's word", but that doesn't make the added falsehood the word of the infinite creator.

See my problem? I would love to see the original copy of al-quran written by the messenger's own hands. That would be the ONLY way to resolve this issue. Hopefully one day we might be able to excavate or find the original book.

and believe that GOD never run out of words

Say, "If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out, even if we double the ink supply."

The words of the infinite creator are not necessarily only in one book. They could be found in another book also. The signs of the infinite creator are all around us and within us, in the entire creation.

2- You must not rely on anything else!

These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?
Woe to every fabricator, guilty.
The one who hears God's revelations recited to him, then insists arrogantly on his way, as if he never heard them. Promise him a painful retribution

3- Read the Book of God as if you never saw it before, read it with your eyes, ears and mind and REFLECT on every word that is being said to you... Take NOTHING for granted and do not allow anyone to make your decisions... For on the day of judgement, you will be standing alone and you will have to answer for your own deeds and your own choices.

4- Be very careful, on whose authority you are making your final understanding as GOD Alone is the explainer

Who are more evil ..., without realizing what they are doing. Consequently, we place shields on their hearts to prevent them from understanding it (the Quran), and deafness in their ears. Thus, no matter what you do to guide them, they can never ever be guided.

I am in complete agreement, provided the current quranic text is the word of the infinite creator in its entirety and not a single verse is falsehood. Please see above.

Your number 7 has been discussed on this forum before, see 2185 (those who witness the shahr) and to my knowledge the only plural reference with a salat timing is 2458, i.e. morning and evening.

The shahr is witnessed north of Arctic Circle. Please google "is full moon visible north of Arctic Circle". So one day of abstinence might last 2 months in certain areas! The 2 salat might be 2 months apart in those areas! Does not make any sense.

I believe the original al-quran did address this issue and it might have been deleted in the codex of Zaid.

re 10)
See 4817, 6416.
Interestingly, genetic mutations are necessary aspect of evolution.

I think you misunderstood. Of course there is no burden on them. Does the current quranic text tell us WHY there are congenital deformities? What was the fault of those newborn to have been born with those abnormalities? This is a very important issue and I believe the answer must have been there in the original al-quran and it might have been deleted in Zaid's codex.

I have found a reasonable and satisfying answer to that question elsewhere in my research, but I would like to focus on the current quranic text for now.

re 13)
Bro Ayman's article is a good start. I have not studied it in-depth but it could be due to differences in the northern and southern hemispheres, and/or possibly meant to be ordained by the community/authority.

Then the quran should have clearly addressed the northern and southern hemisphere situation, or whether it can be ordained by community/authority. Does the infinite creator not know simple basic astronomy? I believe that the original al-quran did address it but it might have been deleted from Zaid's codex.

Some other issues are that it is not clear whether polygamy is allowed in general, or only as an exception in case of the mothers of orphans and not allowed in general. Also why are there different classes of allowed/forbidden women for the messenger and the general people. Does not make any sense.

No wonder Ibn-Masud was upset when Zaid's codex was arbitrarily accepted even though it contained many differences.

http//www.answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Jam/chap3.html

But then again that is history for which there is no actual evidence.

Peace and may the infinite creator bless all of you.

GODsubmitter

Thank you @truthseeker11 for your interesting post.

I had, and still have similar doubts as those that you present in your post, and especially disturbing is the link you gave about the codices of the Qur'an!

I went through all of the links you provided, and although interesting, I'm still puzzled how can one be sure that the "channeling" is not just a highly sophisticated subconscious projection of the person doing the channeling? (specially those women hah)

After all, the Bible and the Qur'an stood the test of time, and are still VERY relevant and in use, after so many thousands of years!

On another link that you provided there is that idea of Jehova not being the real One God, the Luciferic group, and Allah not being the same as Jehova and all that stuff, etc etc, it is actually a very old Gnostic idea, developed by many other heretic groups as well.

So I don't know what to say...

"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."
Matthew 2424

There are just too many various materials, and theories, and visions, and visionaries out there, specially on the Internet...

And it is funny, too
http//www.christianpost.com/news/5-false-messiahs-and-why-their-claims-to-be-christ-contradict-the-bible-97059/

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants#Muslim_messiah_claimants

It's just to show how ridiculous it can get when people delude themselves... or?

I wish you Peace beyond understanding.

truthseeker11

GODsubmitter, peace be upon you infinitely as well,

Thank you for taking the time to go through everything.

I'm still puzzled how can one be sure that the "channeling" is not just a highly sophisticated subconscious projection of the person doing the channeling?

Yes it is possible that the "channeling" is just a highly sophisticated subconscious projection of the person doing the channeling. It is also possible that the channeling is from negative beings. If you meditate at dawn and dusk, and attempt to receive the channeling, there is 99% chance that you will be approached by negative STS (service to self) beings, so one has to be extremely careful in meditation. There are hundreds of channeled messages all over the world from many different beings from higher densities allegedly, and almost all of them, including Pleiadian channeling (Billy Meier) and the Cassiopeian channeling, can be immediately rejected by their negative content and by using mind and reason. Extremely few channelings are from 6th density positive STO (service to others) entities. I gave a link on how to differentiate the negative STS channeling from positive STO (service to others) channeling.

4251 And it is not for any human being that the god would speak to him, except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger to inspire whom he wills with his permission. He is most high, wise.

Sounds like "channeling" to me!

The reason Ra's channeling got my attention is because its basic message makes total sense, and is in line with the quran's basic message, and appeals to mind and reason. The basic message is oneness of the infinite creator and service to others (STO), to evolve/ascend into the higher stages of evolution in the shortest/fastest way possible. The quran also singles out oneness of the creator and good deeds as one of the most important requisites to be successful. Ra's message denounces setting up partners with the infinite creator as it is impossible due to the infinite nature of the creator. Modern quantum physics is heading the same way as the law of one by its string theory.

Similarities between law of one and the quran

2115 And to the god belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is the face of the god. The god is encompassing, knowledgeable.
2255 ........ His throne encompasses all of the heavens and the earth and it is easy for him to preserve them .........
4126 And to the god is what is in the heavens and the earth; and the god is encompassing all things.

262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in the god and the last day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.
569 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in the god and the last day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

Ra's channeling also mentions Muhammad and his mission very accurately! Its description of the 4th density and higher states of existence, and the 4th density and higher planets very closely resembles Quran's view of "heaven". The "harvest" is the same as "day of judgment". It also mentions angels and guardians and that we will be questioned and accountable for our deeds after death and will go through a period of "healing" if needed.

Where it differs is it does not portray the infinite creator as a wrathful, jealous, vengeful god who will burn people in hellfire. Actually I couldn't find the concept of "hell" anywhere unless the "healing" phase is the same as "hell". According to Ra, these messages of doom and gloom are from negative STS beings to promote fear and thereby control mankind and manipulate them for their own selfish reasons. The other place where it differs is in the purpose of creation, not to "serve" or "worship" the infinite creator, but so that the infinite creator can "experience" itself. This makes much more sense than a needy creator who needs to create others to serve itself.

Quo's channeling is also very appealing. Quo is actually formed by a super group of the 6th density Ra complex, and 5th and 4th density positive STO beings. Cassiopeians and the Orion constellation beings are mostly 5th density negative STS beings.

Gabriel is supposed to be a 6th density positive STO being belonging to the 6th density positive STO Yahweh complex who channeled the message to the Abrahamic messengers. That is why their followers started worshipping Yahweh (Jehovah) as god even though in the original message Yahweh complex was clear that they are just a creation. I think that is why the quran and the bible mention only the Abrahamic line because Yahweh did not channel to the Atlanteans, South Americans, Indians, or the Chinese etc.

Ra complex channeled the Atlanteans and also Akhenaton, and is supposed to have physically come to Earth a few times and built the Egyptian pyramids using a levitation technology. That is why the Egyptians started worshipping Ra as sun god which made the Ra complex very upset and they left Earth. Ra complex used to be 3rd density beings millions of years ago just like current humans.

Muhammad, Moses, Jesus are all supposed to be 4th density or higher beings belonging to the Yahweh complex who came back to Earth (wanderers) to guide everyone to the STO path and the law of one. Wanderers are those beings of higher densities who used to be 3rd density beings and have already graduated/harvested to the higher densities (heaven?) and came back to Earth voluntarily to guide other 3rd density beings to the same path.

The Ra channeling also gives an account of where some of the humans came to Earth from another planet 75,000 years ago, which seems very similar to the quranic account of being sent down from heaven! It also gives an account of how the entire universe was created.

Very interesting and fascinating reading!

Once again wish you peace and may the infinite creator bless you.

GODsubmitter

Thank you very much for your reply.

And thank you very much for bringing my attention to this Ra material.
It sounds very interesting, and I think I shall read it more carefully.

I am grateful for your concise explanations.

Peace

Wakas

peace,

I did some googling as you suggested and found this
http//curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=777

This doesn't seem to confirm your view. For example it says in the summer the moon is generally not visible. I guess it will depend on what you define "shahr" as and when shahr ramadan is.

The 2 salat might be 2 months apart in those areas! Does not make any sense.

As I said, the only plural address for the regular/timed salat is 2458 which does not explicitly mention the sun, thus objection of yours may also be invalid.

good_logic

Peace Truthseeker.

Thank you for your reply.

Like you I have spent years studying the Qoran and the bible. I now, have no doubt that Qoran( last scripture) / " Dhikr" or the reminder is the word of God. Put another way,The proven, Arabic words of Qoran stand as the only distinguishable, absolute and ultimate truth.

Qoran is described by God to be the last scripture revealed to His final prophet (3340). It is also described by God to be a timeless and universal doctrine; fits all generations, and applies to all eras, and societies until the end of the world (6852, 8127, 3887, 251 and 12104).

A timeless message that fits the needs of all different generations until the end and conforms to all different systems has to be fully detailed, clearly structured, straightforward, easy to study, consistent, without any contradictions, ambiguity or subjectivity, and lasting to be divinely guarded and preserved. That is how God has engineered His book in perfectly chosen language to encompass all these qualities.

While His words, laws, systems and teachings constitute the eternal absolute truth, any man-made doctrines would reflect the imperfections and limitations of man kind. Trapped in time and place, man-made doctrines are short-term and subjective. Those who witness, comprehend and fully appreciate the greatness of the mathematical proofs WOULD REVERENCE all the following divine qualities expressed by God's proven, Arabic words. When they read them, they believe them because they believe in the AUTHOR, and when they talk about them, it is not just lip service, they weigh their significance and comprehend their implications the way it should be

We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

The truth of the matter is that God chose Arabic to be the language of Qoran, and any man-made efforts to translate Qoran will NEVER substitute the divine word of God and should NEVER believed to be any thing but a human effort with flaws and subjectivity.
The truth of the matter is that the only Qoran revealed by God and authenticated by an intricate, built-in mathematical composition is in Arabic language and this indeed is the the ONLY ULTIMATE and FINAL SOURCE of LAWS and GUIDANCE

God has blessed us with the knowledge of the proofs of His authorship of Qoran. Souls would either advance or regress with such knowledge. The ones who advance are those who would take God's proven words both seriously and literally for they value them the way they should be valued. They would fully comprehend and appreciate how God has designed and structured His final scripture in perfect Arabic. They would never underestimate what God says about His Qoran to be divinely preserved, easy to understand, straightforward except for allegories, complete, perfect, infallible, fully detailed, and consistent without any ambiguity or contradictions. They would distinguish the difference between truth and falsehood, divine and man-made. They know how deep, awesome, and glorious it is when God says He establishes the truth with His words. This fact instils reverence, humility, and a sense of
certainty .

Following other than the " proven words of GOD" will only lead to doubt and confusion. I suppose that is how GOD chose to test us?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

truthseeker11

Peace brother Wakas,

I have read your salat=prayer disproved article many times in the past and I applaud you for such a ground breaking article. I need your help in understanding something. Of course I don't believe that salat=prayer and I don't believe that the rejectors are being coerced into praying and giving alms to escape killing. I agree that it is about their upholding the bond/oath and bringing forth betterment according to the quran and if they do that then let them go their way. My question is if they don't uphold the bond/oath and they don't bring forth betterment then the only option is to kill them. Why not a non lethal way of dealing with that problem, for example business sanctions or taxes etc.?

I looked up the various forms of QTL in PRL. Form 3 means to fight but form 1 used in 95 means to kill.

I did some googling as you suggested and found this
http//curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=777

This doesn't seem to confirm your view. For example it says in the summer the moon is generally not visible. I guess it will depend on what you define "shahr" as and when shahr ramadan is.

It does appear to be so that the full moon is not visible during the summer but that is only in areas north of 66.5 degrees. But in areas in North Norway close to 66.5 degrees the full moon is visible in the summer briefly. The sun shines for close to 24 hours in a day and briefly there is night for a few minutes and the full moon is visible then. Please see the following link

http//curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=341

"Places on the Earth north of 66.5 degrees will never see the part of the ecliptic that is in Sagittarius (even though some parts of the constellation that are above the declination of -23.5 degrees may be seen depending on the latitude of the place). Hence, if you are at a latitude of say 80 degrees, the Sun will be above the sky all day during summer and the Moon will never rise during full moon.

However, the Moon's orbit is inclined to the ecliptic by about 5 degrees which is the reason why we do not see a solar eclipse during every new moon. Hence at latitudes close to 66.5 degrees, one might be able to see the Sun and the full moon for a very short time simultaneously if the geometry of the Moon is just right. However, the Sun and the full moon will be on opposite portions of the sky and so nobody will be able to photograph it unless there is an exceptional camera that can take a picture of the entire sky.

In Oslo, you will find a normal moonrise during full moon. The Sun will be up for a very long time and the full moon will rise shortly after sunset. Soon after moonrise, the Moon will set again and then the Sun will again rise. For the very same reason that you have the Sun for almost 24 hours, you will have the full moon in the sky for a very short time only."

So those people will have to abstain for almost 24 hours every day! Doesn't make any sense.

On the other hand if the full moon is not visible during summer north of 66.5 degrees and the sawm/abstinence is dependent on witnessing the full moon, then people living in those areas don't have to abstain. That does not make any sense either. Isn't that discrimination that people north of 66.5 degrees don't have to perform sawm/abstinence? What makes those people special that they don't have to abstain? They are just like any other human beings.

Either way something seems amiss from the current quranic text.

I have not studied it in-depth, but rather than a set number, a timing mechanism using easily observable cosmic phenomena is an option, and/or sometimes a set number is not required.

"Complete the count" clearly means it is a set number.

Sawm for the mumineen is supposed to be for "ayyam madoodaat" according to the quran and they are supposed to complete the count also. If the number of days is not fixed then how can someone complete the count? "Complete the count" means there is an absolute number of days being talked about, but nowhere in the quran that number is given, pertinent to sawm of shahr ramadaan. "Ayyam madoodaat" is ambiguous and open to interpretation and clashes with the absolute number being referred to by "complete the count". Some people here take the verse pertinent to abstaining during al-hajj which indicates 3+7 for a complete count of 10 and apply that to the abstinence of shahr ramadan but they are 2 different things.

2183 O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.
2184 A few number of days; however, if any of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.
2185 Shahr ramadaan, in which the qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the shahr, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. The god wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify the god for what he has guided you, that you may be thankful.

2196 And complete the hajj and the visit for the god. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever among you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a rite. If you are secure, then whoever goes to visit, but decides to continue until the hajj, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the hajj and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not resident at the Restricted Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.

It is clear that 2183-2185 is talking about a different abstinence and 2196 is talking about a different abstinence for a different reason. How can you extrapolate the 2183-185 abstinence of "ayyam madoodaat", which is decreed upon all mumineen, to be of 10 days based on 2196? I think that is intellectual dishonesty and deception. The infinite creator could have easily explained in 2183-2185 what the set number of days of abstinence of shahr ramadan is, just like he clarified the exact number of days in 2196, and that would also have clarified exactly what shahr ramadan is, and what shahr is. Something is amiss there.

As I said, the only plural address for the regular/timed salat is 2458 which does not explicitly mention the sun, thus objection of yours may also be invalid.

I could not understand what you are trying to say. Can you please explain in more detail? That verse has nothing to do with the timing of salat. The timing verses are elsewhere (11114, 177 and they are clearly related to the sun. So north of 66.5 degrees, salat would be 6 months apart, which makes no sense.

It is clear. It is a minimum of two daily for the mumineen. Other options contain multiple errors

I don't think it is clear. According to 1778 it is clear that there are two but according to 11114, the usage of the word "wa/and" can also mean there is at least one more salat in the near part/parts of the night. The "near part/parts of the night" makes it ambiguous. 1778 could be talking about 2 and 11114 could be talking about total 3 or even 4 and combining the two verses it could mean more than two salat.

11114 And uphold the salat at two ends of the day, and the near part/parts of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
1778 Uphold the salat at the declining/rubbing of the sun, until the approach of the night; and the qur'an at dawn; the qur'an at dawn is witnessed.

Elsewhere in the quran this methodology is used, when one verse says something and the other verse says something same but adds to it, then it is considered to look at the two verses together about the same subject and add up all the different things to reach a higher total number, rather than trying to interpret and justify that the two verses are saying the same number of things. For example one verse about a believer might give two traits and another verse might give the same traits plus another trait so the total traits of the believer based on those two verses will be three not two rather than trying to justify that the three traits in the second verse are actually two traits.

The infinite creator could have easily told us "there are two salat in a day for the believers" and then 1778 and 11114 could have been interpreted only in one way rather than 2 different possible interpretations of 11114 right now, and it would have been very clear.

Peace upon you all, and may the infinite creator bless you all

truthseeker11

Peace brother good logic,

I agree with you that the proven words in Arabic of the quran must be the words inspired by the infinite creator, and that the current quranic text is complete, IF it can be proved that all the Arabic words in the current quranic text are actually the words inspired by the infinite creator, and nothing is missing. The only practical way I can think of for that proof is to compare the current quranic text with the original copy of the quran written down by the messenger and prophet Muhammad himself. For that we will have to wait until the original copy is excavated or found or another new revelation is inspired by the infinite creator. To prove it from the words of the current quranic text in any way would be the logical fallacy of circular reasoning and not a proof. The proof has to come from outside the current quranic text.

Peace and may the infinite creator bless you

truthseeker11

Peace be upon everyone,

Another thought just came to my mind while I was thinking about full moon not being visible at all during summer for 6 months north of 66.5 degrees in the northern hemisphere. This creates even bigger problems, because then shahr ramadan doesn't exist in that area. How does one determine the restricted shahr north of 66.5 degrees in northern hemisphere? Does wildlife magically cease to exist in that area? Does wildlife not need any protection in that area? How does one determine the time of al-hajj in those areas? This opens up a Pandora's box.

Maybe shahr is not full moon, or maybe shahr ramadan is not the full moon of scorching heat. Shahr cannot be a month either because that also creates problems and inconsistencies within the quran. Is something maybe missing from the current quranic text? The quran is a book for all times and for the whole world. The infinite creator definitely knows about the unique situation north and south of 66.5 degrees in the northern and southern hemispheres and also the different seasons in the two hemispheres at the same time, and would have addressed it in the quran.

Few more things about "the law of one". The social memory complex by the name of Ra proclaims itself as the humble messenger of the law of one. Ra also advises us to praise, thank and glorify the infinite creator as much as we can.

63.5 Ra I am Ra. Continue in love and praise and thanksgiving to the Creator.
80.2 We, of Ra, still walk these steps and praise the One Infinite Creator at each transformation.
99.11 We leave you in hopes that each may find true colors to fly in that great metaphysical quest and urge each to urge each other in love, praise, and thanksgiving.
32.1 This instrument thought upon the Creator in its solitude and in actions with other-self, continually praised and gave thanksgiving to the Creator for the experiences it was having. This in turn allowed this particular entity to radiate to the other-self such energies as became a catalyst for an opening and strengthening of the other-self?s ability to function in a more positively polarized state. Thus we see protection being very simple. Give thanksgiving for each moment..........Open the heart. Always know the light and praise it. This is all the protection necessary.

Peace and may the infinite creator bless everyone. All praise, glory and thanks belongs to the infinite creator.

Wakas

peace ts11,

My question is if they don't uphold the bond/oath and they don't bring forth betterment then the only option is to kill them. Why not a non lethal way of dealing with that problem, for example business sanctions or taxes etc.?

There is a non-lethal way, see 96

And if anyone from the polytheists seeks your protection, then you may protect him so that he may hear the word of The God, then deliver him to his safety/security. This is because they are a people who do not know.

I looked up the various forms of QTL in PRL. Form 3 means to fight but form 1 used in 95 means to kill.

Whilst I agree it could be translated as "kill them", the context (e.g. 96) clearly gives an option of non-killing, hence my preference for translating it as "fight" (which can include killing). Furthermore, with other verses on fighting, it is clear one can take captives (see point 17 here) which likely explains the use of "take/seize them" (khudhhum) in 95.

Thanks for the information regarding the sun/moon. However, can you clarify where this statement of yours is from

So those people will have to abstain for almost 24 hours every day! Doesn't make any sense.

The reason I ask is, in the example given of Oslo, it does not appear to have 24hrs of sun. Perhaps you mean a very long time of sun, e.g. about 19hrs.

We should also bear in mind 2184 which says
A number of days. Whoever of you is ill or travelling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty they may ransom by feeding the needy. Whoever does good voluntarily, it is better for him. If you fast, it is better for you if you knew.

There is variance however on the underlined part, the two most common translations being
"...as for those who are able to do it (but choose not to)..."
"...as for those who find it difficult..."

"Complete the count" clearly means it is a set number.

Yes, but the "set number" may not be the same for everyone, as it depends on when one witnessed the shahr. In your comparison of verses, 2183-185 and 2196, you clearly highlight Quran mentions a specific number of sawm/abstinence in 2196, thus it is capable of stating a specific number if necessary.
Also, when I studied 'al hajj' I realised its duration for the individual undertaking it was self-determined. See

Source
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html

When to end one's HaJJ?
A person undertaking HaJJ can hurry to 2 days but usually it is more than this . The word "ma3doodat" typically indicates a low number, e.g. from 3-10 as it is often used for numbers which can be counted by one's fingers. A maximum of 10 days may also be indicated in 2196 wherein it seems to make equivalent (in terms of giving) one who benefitted/enjoyed in a visit to the HaJJ and one who did HaJJ. The phrase "ten complete" in 2196 is interesting as it is obvious 7+3=10, thus may be a clarifying instruction to reassure the instructed that since there is no fixed number 10 is considered complete.
There is also a theoretical scenario wherein a visitor to the HaJJ enjoyed/benefitted (thus should undergo 3 days abstinence during HaJJ, and 7 upon return) but there is less than 3 days of HaJJ left thus cannot abstain 3 days during it. The guidance provided could indicate that one is to make it up to 10, e.g. if only one day left of HaJJ, abstinence that day, then 9 upon return. Please note that this scenario would be rare as it is unlikely someone would on purpose make such an important trip with so little time to enjoy or benefit from it, unless they were delayed unexpectedly enroute etc.
If the above information is coupled with 2200, 2229 and 2234, it implies the individual determines when their obligation of HaJJ is complete - and that is once they have performed their obligatory act of devotion/servitude, i.e. slaughter an animal to share and feed those in need. That would explain why there is no fixed duration time explicitly stated in AQ. Interestingly most traditional commentators also regard one's personal HaJJ to end after this act.

Thus, I do not necessarily agree it must be a set number, same for everyone. Although, having said that, I haven't conducted my own independent study on the Quranic calendar system, when is sawm etc.

Re plural address in 2458
I am saying that this is the only verse, to my knowledge, wherein salat timings are mentioned and it is addressed to the plural believers, as opposed to addressed in the singular. 2458 clearly mentions two specific salat, and the names/terms used clearly indicate a point in time, i.e. "salat al fajr" (salat of dawn/morning), and "salat al isha" (salat of dusk/evening). Note how the sun is not explicitly mentioned, only an indirect implication could be taken. This suggests to me a possible understanding of this verse is simply salat of morning and salat of evening. The sun is not required for that, and can be applied universally.
In my view, the timings given in Quran, in terms of duration of salat, using the sun, are a guideline. We know for a fact, for example, that when it comes to the additional reading during the night, it clearly states the time is variable and is dependent on what one can manage, see 7320.

You said, emphasis mine

I don't think it is clear. According to 1778 it is clear that there are two but according to 11114, the usage of the word "wa/and" can also mean there is at least one more salat in the near part/parts of the night.

Yes, it could mean that, but when cross-referenced it doesn't. This point is discussed in the article I linked to, see points 3 and 13. Did you read it?

IAMOP

Peace

The energy must flow straight to Allah, then it will be freed and return back. When partners are associated, the energy flows to those partners but it does not reach Allah. It will all reach Allah when the Judgement is pronounced then it will be used for Heaven/Hell. Then Hell will burn out in some way and the energy will return to Paradise where we will abide forever.

The rest of your questions can be responded to by your own self-study using Quran Corpus. The error is not in the arabic quran but it IS in the translated quran, wherein which you have your issues.

There is a path through the quran completely free from all violence. This path necessitates the Best of conduct and necessitates that we give each other space to learn. It is not for a muslim to kill a mushrik without giving them the chance to learn and understand what they are doing wrong.

When someone worships Jesus, they give their energy to Jesus and deny their own selves. But the Way of Allah is to give energy to Allah who will multiply it manyfold for you and in turn benefit countless other beings. So when the energy stops at an idol, it goes no further in this Life and on the grand D.O.J. it will all be reassembled and put in its right place. Then some will lose and some will gain. Every suffering you experienced will be transformed into peace, every hurt you gave out - that one depends on the judgement itself. It may be returned to you for you to understand the consequences of your actions or it may be forgiven for you IF there is a way for Allah to actually forgive you. To Allah, things are impossible when they are unjust. So Allah necessarily justly judges and the just retribution of association is unfortunately found in His/Her/Its Infinite Wisdom to be a place called Hell.

Further study of the quran will elaborate on these things I tell you. You will have a lot of cross-referencing to do and you will have to understand that it is Allah's right to give and take Life, as Allah is The Life itself.

peace

Man_of_Faith

The idol is when one makes a separation instead of merges in the same image which is Allah, but if Allah is separate it does not matter if the idol is called Allah or not. It is as having Jesus as idol.

Allah is no image for worship but assimilation and to synchronously do the will of the Sustainer. One must really be one. If you are one and Allah one than it is classical polytheism. No, you should not exist separately but in Allah.

This is a realization that I have come to.

As long as Allah is not treated within the same image as yourself it is Paganism because you have an idol. The image you project separately is that idol. Jesus tried to teach this, but he was misunderstood and they separated him from Allah as part of some trinity contrary to his message.

Same is often done with Muhammad and the "Sunnah" despite that they refuse to call it idolatry but Muhammad is their separate image from Allah. That is wrong.

Salaam

truthseeker11

Peace all,

Sana'a manuscripts are one of the oldest Quranic manuscripts in existence. They were found during renovation of a wall in the attic of Great Mosque of Sana'a, the capital of Yemen in 1972 after damage from heavy rains. Approximately 15,000 manuscripts were found belonging to almost 1000 unique copies of the Quran of which none are complete.

It is said that Prophet Muhammad was associated with the mosque's planning and construction around 630 CE. Many of the archeological finds discovered in the Great Mosque substantiate its construction to the era when the Prophet was alive.

An agreement was made between Yemeni and German governments for restoration and cataloging of these manuscripts. The project was funded by the cultural section of Foreign Ministry of West Germany. The restoration of manuscripts began in 1980 under the supervision of Yemeni Department for Antiquities. Gerd Puin and Hans-Caspar Bothmer were the local directors of the project. Professor Puin is a German scholar and an authority on Qur'anic historical orthography, the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts, and a specialist in Arabic calligraphy. Work continued to the end of 1989, when the project terminated with the end of funding. The manuscripts were stored in the House of Manuscripts, the Dar al-Makhtutat in Sana'a, Yemen. In 1996-1997 the German team which enjoyed exclusive access to the site, began to microfilm as much of the material as they could totalling more than 35,000 images.

The Sana'a palimpsest is one of the most important manuscripts of the collection. It is written on parchment in the Hijazi script and comprises two layers of text. Palimpsest is a manuscript page from which the text has been either scraped or washed off, so that the page can be reused for another document.

The upper text conforms to the standard Uthmanic text (with some minor differences), whereas the lower text contains significant diversions from the standard text. The ordering of some surahs in the lower text is also different from the standard text. A radiocarbon analysis has dated the parchment containing the lower text to before 671 CE with a 99% accuracy, with a 95% probability of being older than 661 CE and 75% probability of being from before 646 CE.

The lower text was erased and written over, but due to the presence of metals in the ink, the lower text has resurfaced, and now appears in a light brown color. It can also be viewed by X-ray fluorescence imaging and ultraviolet imaging.

The Sana'a palimpsest is not complete and comprises of 80 folios which are roughly half of the Quran. An edition of the upper and lower text of 40 folios was published by Behnam Sadeghi (Professor of Islamic Studies at Stanford University) and Mohsen Gourdazi (PhD student at Harvard University) in March 2012. Dr Elisabeth Puin, daughter of professor Puin, published detailed results of the analysis of these folios in 2008-2009. The remaining 40 folios are in the Eastern Library of the Great Mosque in Sana'a and their upper and lower text has not been published yet.

Analysis done at the Accelerator Mass Spectrometry (AMS) Laboratory at the University of Arizona indicated that the Sana'a palimpsest had a 68% (1&#963 probability of belonging to the period between 614 CE to 656 CE. It had a 95% (2&#963 probability of belonging to the period between 578 CE and 669 CE. The carbon dating was applicable to the lower text.

Early Muslim tradition describing the existence of companion codices such as codices of Ibn Masud and Ubayy bin Ka'b, and the types of variants reported in them has now received textual confirmation with the discovery of Sana'a palimpsest.

http//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscript
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/soth.html

Example of diversion from standard text

Several words are missing within a paragraph leading to a different meaning

Sahih International translation ?? (if) they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.

Sana'a manuscript, ?DAM 0 1-27.1?, translation ?? (if) they turn away, Allah will punish them in this world. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.

The finishing letter, ?Alif?, in ?yatawallaw?, ?they turn away?, found in today?s standard text of the Quran is missing in the early manuscript under discussion, as indicated by the empty box with a black frame above. Moreover, in the the verb ?yu?addibhum?, ?he (Allah) will punish them?, found on ?Fol. 16r, Z.13?, is not explained with ?adaban aliman?, ?with a painful punishment?, as in the Standard Text (StT). There one finds ?fi?l-dunya wa-?l-ahirati?, ?in this world and in the Hereafter.? The Sana'a manuscript contains only ?in this world? and therefore fits better with the end of the verse in both versions ?And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper.?

The above from

http//www.answering-islam.org/authors/oskar/palimpsest.html

THUS NO PAINFUL PUNISHMENT IN HEREAFTER IN 974 ACCORDING TO SANA'A PALIMPSEST.

This monumental discovery of a Quran palimpsest could be the smoking gun evidence of possible deliberate human tampering of Quranic verses and casts a doubt over 100% authenticity of the current Arabic text of al-Quran. It strengthens the hypothesis that the current Quranic text might contain some falsehoods and might not be entirely of divine origin. I am eagerly awaiting completion of research on remaining 40 folios of Sana'a palimpsest and all 15000 Sana'a manuscripts, and archeological discovery of the entire first original Arabic text of al-Quran for further evidence and to see the full extent of such tampering.

Since al-zikr is divinely protected/preserved (159), the entire original Arabic text must be present somewhere on this Earth and will be discovered one day. Already the divine protection can be seen in action by the miraculous discovery of Sana'a palimpsest and through modern X-ray fluorescence and ultraviolet imaging technology.

May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.

Samira1234

Hello truthseeker11,

Interesting article from the webpage. But then how are you sure that the manuscripts have not been tampered with as well by any chance? Such as written by laymen who may have disliked the Quran's harsher parts hence intentionally missed out on some words when writing them down? Are Sana'a manuscripts the only oldest existing manuscripts? These are necessary questions if one has to question the authenticity of today's manuscripts.

Peace.

truthseeker11

Peace Samira,

I quoted from 3 articles, not one article.

From your questions, it looks like you didn't pay attention to details and just skimmed the articles

Sana'a manuscripts are the oldest Quran manuscripts discovered so far. Noon referenced an old Quran manuscript in one thread but Sana'a manuscripts are older.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607061.0

The Sana'a parchment fragments are from 1000 unique Quran copies. The lower text was carbon dated to a time when the Prophet was alive with a 75 to 95.5% probability.
Great Mosque of Sana'a was originally constructed while the Prophet was alive and was one of the earliest and most important islamic centers of its time.

Do you think people wrote 1000 bad copies of Qurans in the Prophet's time and were able to store all those bad copies in one of the most important islamic centers?

The upper text was written at a time considerably after the lower text was written. Do you think the bad texts survived 50 plus years without detection in one of the most important islamic centers of its time? Do an experiment. Go place 1000 bad Quran copies in your city's biggest mosque and see how long they go unnoticed.
Sana'a palimpsest actually comprises of text from 4 different Qurans.
a. The lower text.
b. Corrections to the lower text at a later date.
c. The upper text.
d. Corrections to the upper text at a later date.

So the lower text was written first. Then at a later date the lower text was corrected. Then it was washed away and upper text was written. Then at a later date the upper text was corrected. All of this happened in one of the most important islamic centers of its time. One bad copy is possible but 1000 bad Qurans and each containing multiple corrections to text at different dates in one of the most important learning centers of its time? If the "authorized Uthmanic text" had not yet reached the mosque, upon what basis were the corrections of the two different texts made?

THE UPPER FINAL TEXT IS STILL DIFFERENT FROM THE CURRENT STANDARD TEXT! Even though it is closer to the current standard text than the lower text, there are still differences from the current standard text.

Do you think they made 3 corrections and still didn't get it right in one of the most important islamic centers of its time? Why was it not fully corrected when the "authorized Uthmanic version" arrived?

The Great Mosque of Sana'a also contains the pagan cube idol symbolizing Allat in its courtyard. Obviously this was a later innovation after the death of the Prophet. Don't you think the upper text which was written at a later date and closer to the current standard text is more likely a fabrication than the lower text dated with a high probability from the time of the Prophet?

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603432.0

I will quote the following from one of the articles I referenced which you obviously did not read

"B. Was it just a bad copy used by those whom the Uthmanic text had not yet reached?

There are several problems with such an assumption

The palimpsest ?DAM 0 1-27.1? has been proven to actually contain four different Qurans A complete primary and secondary text, and both showing later corrections. Therefore we are not just dealing with one but four ?bad copies? within the first Islamic century. If the Uthmanic text had not yet reached the mosque, upon what basis were the corrections of the two different texts made?
The Great Mosque of Sana?a where the manuscripts were found was built in the 6th year of the Hijrah by one of Muhammad?s companions.11 It was a centre of Islamic learning and as such must have been supplied with Uthman?s text immediately and urgently, since the Qurans found in any mosques have naturally been in use among the Muslims.
Since even the secondary text with the corrections does not resemble the Uthmanic text 100%, the question arises as to why it was not corrected when the ?Authorized Version? arrived? To keep a different Quran in an Islamic centre of learning is a recipe for passing on false teachings."

May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.

truthseeker11

Peace Samira,

One more interesting finding. In the Wikipedia article, they give Arabic text of some verses from the lower text of the Sana'a palimpsest written side by side with the current standard text. I looked up all those verses one by one in a current standard text. Imagine my surprise when I found out that the verses in the lower text of the Sana'a manuscripts made much more sense and seemed to be grammatically more accurate than the current standard text verses! In other words, the words added to or deleted from the original lower text cause the current standard text to make less sense than the original lower text of the Sana'a manuscript. Check them out yourself

http//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscript

You can use the following for meanings of the Arabic words in the Sana'a manuscript that are different from the current standard text and then compare the two translations

http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

Then using your conscience and reasoning, see for yourself from the meanings which text is more likely to be the one with the tampering. To me the truth of the matter was clear as day.

Bear in mind that the list of verses in the Wikipedia article is not complete. Thousands of Sana'a manuscripts have still not been studied and some folios of the Sana'a I palimpsest that have been studied have not been published yet. There could be radical differences present between the Sana'a manuscripts and the current standard text that have not been discovered or published yet.

May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.