:: Do tawakkal on Allah or be a mushrik ::

Zulf

You are attempting to put words in my mouth . . . who say God unable to do this ? confused

What really happen here is God gave us the brain
and God create a system known as the "Sunnatullah",
and the system has its "law of cause and effect"
and you will not find any changes in the Sunnatullah

This is God?s way with those who have passed away before,
and you will not find any change in God?s way
33.62

You will not find any change in God?s way
and you will not find any bypass to God?s way
35.43

God now asks mankind not to be an idiot waiting everything from Allah,
or even using the corrupted understanding of "tawakkal" while praying days/nights and doing nothing else

God asks us to do our best to study the system, to study the sign. .
so that we can benefit ourselves, have lots of money to sadaqah, and benefit humanity . . .

praise is to Allah , Lord of the worlds
1.2

but those who does not understand and living in dreams/nightmares. . .
they will be subjected to the following "Sunnatullah"

And whoever turns away from My remembrance
then he will have a miserable life
20.124

"Miserable life"? Who are these people ? Isn't it the Muslim Ummah ?

No wonder why. . because they been living in the illusion of God, Religion, Hell, Paradise, Sin, Reward, Angels, Iblees, Satan, Ikhlas, Tawakkal and all the Mutasyaabihat context of life . . rather than in the real world, ie. the "Deen" of Islam.

I seriously like your take on things. Very interesting and potent.
Peace

mmkhan

I'm going to give my opinion of the poll question.

Though I believe the either-or statement to be a bit problematic, which I will explain why, I do believe it to be factual.

Yes, to rely on anything besides God is to in some sense deem sole reliance not necessary. However I feel as though one of His names is "Most Forgiving" for a reason. I never forget that when I believe I might be in-error.

It is not possible to reasonably rely practically on Him without also putting forth some effort of your own. God gave us the capacity to think, to act. We can rely on God for sustenance, food, water, etc, but we still must put forth the effort of picking up that food or water and chewing/swallowing it. Using that capacity (or relying on the capacity God gave you) in a way to get yourself closer to Him, in my opinion, is not consistent with placing the title of mushrik.

I also think you have to really evaluate how you interpret reliance on Him. If I'm trying to establish a 501 (c)3 non-profit in the US to advance critical thinking Islamic study, I'm going to need to make projections in order to satisfy donors. I can make those projections, because I'm acknowledging that with the favor of God, this is how I believe things will turn out. Do I know for certain? Absolutely not, only God knows. But I believe God knows we do not live in a world full of believers, and thusly, we must keep Him in-mind when do activities that others may not associate with Him (like making financial projections).

In conclusion, I agree that "do tawakkal" on Allah or you may open yourself to being branded mushrik. But I'd say that first, only God may decide who is or is not that. Secondly, that by being sincere and mindful of your connection to God, you may rely on Him even when you deal with situations/people who do not. Thirdly, in those situations when you are not mindful of your connection to Him, then you may be crossing that mushrik border. If that happens though, I'd believe there are varying degrees of defiance that are recorded with varying weight in your book of deeds. Lastly, again, only God knows.

Salaam,

Thanks for giving your reasons in detail.
I wanted to ask you two questions, please do not take them wrong but try to answer them. No offence intended but trying to understand the point, inshaAllah.

1- I understood from your post that Allah gave us brains and intelligence so we need to think and plan. Allah gave us nail so we need to scratch others in order to use Allah's given ability. Allah gave us strength and a huge body so we need to punch and slap people wherever we find them, in order to use Allah's given ability. Allah gave us legs, so we should not use any vehicle but walk in order to use our ability given by Allah. Allah gave us ability to produce children, so we need to produce them continuously. There are many many more abilities we have given, is that mean we should use all of them or we need to use only few abilities as you mentioned above?

2- Why do you think, no prophet or messenger in alQuraan is called as a non-mushrik except Ibrahim 2135]?

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Existential1

1- I understood from your post that Allah gave us brains and intelligence so we need to think and plan. Allah gave us nail so we need to scratch others in order to use Allah's given ability. Allah gave us strength and a huge body so we need to punch and slap people wherever we find them, in order to use Allah's given ability. Allah gave us legs, so we should not use any vehicle but walk in order to use our ability given by Allah. Allah gave us ability to produce children, so we need to produce them continuously. There are many many more abilities we have given, is that mean we should use all of them or we need to use only few abilities as you mentioned above?

2- Why do you think, no prophet or messenger in alQuraan is called as a non-mushrik except Ibrahim ?

I believe you just created false equivalences. That being, "Allah granted us the ability, therefore why don't we do x?" My specific example was that relying on God-given abilities to create social "goods" is within the scope of relying on Allah. I'll go through your false equivalences individually
1a. Allah gave us nail so we need to scratch others in order to use Allah's given ability. I do not believe scratching others is creating a social "good", therefor I would say this is not the same as my example and I wouldn't agree with it morally or socially.
1b. Allah gave us strength and a huge body so we need to punch and slap people wherever we find them, in order to use Allah's given ability. Same response as previous.
1c. Allah gave us legs, so we should not use any vehicle but walk in order to use our ability given by Allah. We created vehicles through ingenuity which Allah also gave us. I see nothing wrong with that.
1d. Allah gave us ability to produce children, so we need to produce them continuously. I believe the Quran is the least procreation-oriented of the Abrahamic faiths. I've taken this stance as evidenced by a combination of these verses 3021, 7189, and 1672. Unlike in the NT, procreation isn't an obligation. It's something that God rewards you with in Islam.
1e. There are many many more abilities we have given, is that mean we should use all of them or we need to use only few abilities as you mentioned above? As with most things, case-by-case basis. If you are using God-given abilities while keeping in mind that they are indeed from God, and using them towards the benefit of His creations while not harming others, I don't see the problem.
Why do you think, no prophet or messenger in alQuraan is called as a non-mushrik except Ibrahim ?

I believe the reference to Ibrahim in this case has to do with the fact that he is the first prophet to believe in God as we are attempting to do. And believing as he believed is the truest source of pure submission without any cause to believe other than pure faith. Other prophets had his example to work on. But, the verse also refers specifically to Jews and Christians (people who consider themselves a part of a larger religious community and hold other prophets on similar footing with God). I believe you could insert any prophet in Abraham's place, as the prophets all answer directly to God and hold no other equal to Him. The religious community at-large though, unfortunately, hold those prophets interchangeably with God. Abraham is the human OG(original gangsta for you non-Californians) of our monotheistic belief system, so to speak, so his example is better than the other prophets though I still believe they are worthy of consideration. Using him in 2135 avoids any unnecessary ambiguity as to whether we should attach ourselves to cultures/movements associated with other prophets.

I hope I sufficiently addressed your questions.

I'd like to ask you a follow-up question. Is there a message to be learned in that Ibrahim is the only affirmed non-mushrik and he had no scripture to follow? (While we try to discern a connection to God through scripture)

peace

good_logic

Peace All.

After " Tawakkul on Allah",I was wondering

How does one "do" tawakkal on Allah?

One can only "say" Tawakkal on Allah and proceeds to do whatever they are doing?

Enlighten me!!! There are things you can say and do. then there are things you can only say!!!

I suppose we need to mean what we say?

GOD bless you.

Prace.

noble

I believe the reference to Ibrahim in this case has to do with the fact that he is the first prophet to believe in God as we are attempting to do. And believing as he believed is the truest source of pure submission without any cause to believe other than pure faith. Other prophets had his example to work on. But, the verse also refers specifically to Jews and Christians (people who consider themselves a part of a larger religious community and hold other prophets on similar footing with God). I believe you could insert any prophet in Abraham's place, as the prophets all answer directly to God and hold no other equal to Him. The religious community at-large though, unfortunately, hold those prophets interchangeably with God. Abraham is the human OG(original gangsta for you non-Californians) of our monotheistic belief system, so to speak, so his example is better than the other prophets though I still believe they are worthy of consideration. Using him in 2135 avoids any unnecessary ambiguity as to whether we should attach ourselves to cultures/movements associated with other prophets.

peace

Peace Bro,

even Abraham had to rely on his senses to end up believing in One God, cue his appraisal of the Universe to find God, when he looked at a Star, the Moon, then the Sun, arguing within a monologue that these must be God, then ending up concluding that they could not be because they set, then submitting per se.

In here we see that a development is taking place which is a parable onto what someone asking the right questions, and settling with the correct answers would do.

Armanaziz

Salamun alaikum.

When we say tawakkul on Allah it can mean at least two things

It can mean

My parents and teachers have told me from my childhood that there is a deity who created us all and taking care of us all. The name of the deity is Allah. When I grew up a bit I read this book called Qur?an which is supposedly from the same deity ? Allah. The book tells me to rely (have tawakkul) on Allah ? so I have tawakkul on Allah for everything and I, for example, ?
a. Do not go to doctors for treatment.
b. Do not strive to have a decent living
c. Do not use my brain to think about the life and the world.
I have this firm belief that if I have twakkul on Allah, my diseases will auto cure, Allah will provide my livelihood and Allah will spare me from using my own brain and being misguided.

If above is the nature of our tawakkul ? such tawakkul is not on the deity (named Allah) ? such tawakkul is actually upon the parents OR teachers OR books who taught us about the deity. Rather than saving from shirk ? this is a more convenient way of getting into shirk.

However if it means

Based on my understanding and study I have come to the conclusion that the One who gave me the life and is coninually sustaining me (hereafter refered to as God or Allah) ? must have given me all my requisite abilities to serve my intended purpose in this life of the world. So, if I strive with all my ability, intelligence and smartness to live the best possible life that Allah has intended for me - being fair and equitable to all other creations of Allah - utilizing the resources Allah has made available for me in responsible way? I have nothing to fear anyone, nor should I have any reason to grieve.

If above is the nature of tawakkul ? such tawakkul on Allah can be expected to save us from associating partners with Him.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

noble

Peace @Armanaziz

I agree with you and acknowledge you for what you wrote.

In Arabic the clerics make a distinction between your 1. which is tawaakul and 2. which is tawakkul.

.vs

unknownuser

@ Armanaziz

Brilliantly put. As one of the stories my elders used to relate to me when I was young (just for teaching a lesson). Not sure where it originates from but nevertheless has a valuable lesson.

There was a person on a ship drowning at sea. The person prayed to God to be saved. Just when half the ship had gone down, a boat with a person on it appeared. The boat operator yelled for the person on the ship going down to jump onto the boat. The person refused saying "Allah will save me" but he drowned with the ship.

So the lesson here is that the person refused help that was sent by God and thus was ungrateful and so was not helped!

mmkhan

@ Armanaziz

Brilliantly put. As one of the stories my elders used to relate to me when I was young (just for teaching a lesson). Not sure where it originates from but nevertheless has a valuable lesson.

There was a person on a ship drowning at sea. The person prayed to God to be saved. Just when half the ship had gone down, a boat with a person on it appeared. The boat operator yelled for the person on the ship going down to jump onto the boat. The person refused saying "Allah will save me" but he drowned with the ship.

So the lesson here is that the person refused help that was sent by God and thus was ungrateful and so was not helped!

Peace,

Your story does not go with the topic. Because the person in the ship relies on Allah and Allah send a boat to save him. Why do you think the boat came otherwise?

As per 2168 why do you think Ibrahim didn't use his Allah's given abilities and walk into the fire? Like he was given legs to run away, he was given intelligence to hide, he was given voice to shout and call for help, etc?

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

noble

Peace,

Your story does not go with the topic. Because the person in the ship relies on Allah and Allah send a boat to save him. Why do you think the boat came otherwise?

As per 2168 why do you think Ibrahim didn't use his Allah's given abilities and walk into the fire? Like he was given legs to run away, he was given intelligence to hide, he was given voice to shout and call for help, etc?

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

OK mmkhan, peace first...

then, next time if you are in the middle of a fire, stay still and rely on Allah to save you...

comparing miracles Allah performed as a Sign for Prophets and Messengers to influence communities towards Belief, to general causality is very unwise, and uneducated.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr

unknownuser

Salaam,

I know you dont find it relevant because you did not understand the story at all.

As for prophet Ibraheem (pbuh), he was especially chosen by God, as were other prophets. Prophet Isaa (pbuh) by God's permission cured the blind. If you think God will grant prophetic miracles to you...then peace, i have nothing more to say.

God does as He so pleases but He breaks not His word. The Quran is with us already, all the signs and miracles and why miracles were not given to the last prophet is clear to those of us who believe and understand.

Those miracles had God's will and other reasons, not purely because they were righteous but because the miracles were meant as proof of prophet/messengerhood.

FreedomStands

Salaam,

I know you dont find it relevant because you did not understand the story at all.

As for prophet Ibraheem (pbuh), he was especially chosen by God, as were other prophets. Prophet Isaa (pbuh) by God's permission cured the blind. If you think God will grant prophetic miracles to you...then peace, i have nothing more to say.

God does as He so pleases but He breaks not His word. The Quran is with us already, all the signs and miracles and why miracles were not given to the last prophet is clear to those of us who believe and understand.

Those miracles had God's will and other reasons, not purely because they were righteous but because the miracles were meant as proof of prophet/messengerhood.

Good answer!

mmkhan

Salaam,

I know you dont find it relevant because you did not understand the story at all.

As for prophet Ibraheem (pbuh), he was especially chosen by God, as were other prophets. Prophet Isaa (pbuh) by God's permission cured the blind. If you think God will grant prophetic miracles to you...then peace, i have nothing more to say.

God does as He so pleases but He breaks not His word. The Quran is with us already, all the signs and miracles and why miracles were not given to the last prophet is clear to those of us who believe and understand.

Those miracles had God's will and other reasons, not purely because they were righteous but because the miracles were meant as proof of prophet/messengerhood.

Peace,

I noticed that you people are making messengers and prophets special. I know they are special but they are special because of their deeds and reached the positions of messengers and prophets. If you get closer and closer to Allah and try to get rid of even a tiny bad deed from your life, then there is no wonder that you will be among them, inshaAllah.

Please take a look at this and this. And if you still disagree then please take a look at this.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

FreedomStands

Peace,

I noticed that you people are making messengers and prophets special. I know they are special but they are special because of their deeds and reached the positions of messengers and prophets. If you get closer and closer to Allah and try to get rid of even a tiny bad deed from your life, then there is no wonder that you will be among them, inshaAllah.

Please take a look at this and this. And if you still disagree then please take a look at this.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Oh is that what happened? Isn't it that they weren't special at all, except that Allah chose them out of the people and made them special therefor?

mmkhan

Oh is that what happened? Isn't it that they weren't special at all, except that Allah chose them out of the people and made them special therefor?

Peace brother,

Why you make partitions? A section of messengers and a section of prophets, then a believers, then comes kafir? Why bro?

We all are created same be it a rasool or a nabi. As we can upgrade our level from a normal insaan to a muttaqi and a believer. Further levels include rasool, nabi and imaam. Why you wanted to keep yourself backward in the sight of Allah?

Yes they have chosen but why? They have been chosen because of their work towards their Lord. Because they keep on adding good deeds into their lives. Is it that hard to understand?

Please tell me what you understand by 4913? Specially the highlighted part.

What does this mean to you?

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

FreedomStands

Peace brother,

Why you make partitions? A section of messengers and a section of prophets, then a believers, then comes kafir? Why bro?

We all are created same be it a rasool or a nabi. As we can upgrade our level from a normal insaan to a muttaqi and a believer. Further levels include rasool, nabi and imaam. Why you wanted to keep yourself backward in the sight of Allah?

Yes they have chosen but why? They have been chosen because of their work towards their Lord. Because they keep on adding good deeds into their lives. Is it that hard to understand?

Please tell me what you understand by 4913? Specially the highlighted part.

What does this mean to you?

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Sorry, but where did I make these partitions in the above quoted? I thought I said they weren't special but were chosen and made special (in the sense that not every single human being is chosen to give revelations from Allah and called Prophets and stuff).

I think it works just a little differently. Allah chooses the person first, then they do the good stuff. The Qur'an says that none of them would have done it had not Allah chosen it for them, and that none can even will it unless Allah wills it first.

unknownuser

Salaam,

No. There is no set criteria to be chosen as a prophet or messenger or both. It is only that God does as God wills. There is no way anyone can say why God does as He pleases, unless it is divinely inspired to someone chosen by God in the first place.

God chose prophet Isaa (pbuh) and he spoke from the craddle (where are the deeds?). Prophet Musa (pbuh)'s mother was inspired that God will make him of the messengers (again, where are the deeds?).

After God chose them, they were still capable of making mistakes and giving into temptation (which would incur the wrath of God), but having been chosen by God and guided specially to achieve a certain purpose, they were able to avoid ill-deeds and thus were among the upright and righteous.

None of the above strived to become messengers and or prophets, except that God chose them with His Majesty's free and unquestionable will.
We make no distinction between the prophets and/or messengers, but we do recognize that they were chosen for reasons absolutely unknown to us.

There are degrees of rank with God, but only God knows what and who they are awarded to. We do however know that disbelievers and wrongdoers/sinners are not part of this.

Striving to be chosen by God by taking certain actions is a sectarian concept, as they profess to know how God selects which is a lie against God. No one knows who or how or why God chooses an x,y,z individual or a group of people. Remember the sectarian concept? that all prophets including Muhammad (pbuh) were perfect in character which led to their being selected as prophets and/or messengers? This is speaking about God without knowledge.

These people were ordinary human beings like us, they were made special when God chose them. As to why God chose them, only God knows.

Armanaziz

As per 2168 why do you think Ibrahim didn't use his Allah's given abilities and walk into the fire? Like he was given legs to run away, he was given intelligence to hide, he was given voice to shout and call for help, etc?

Salam brother.

With due respect ? your conclusion that Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) did not use his ability to try to avoid the fire is an unwarranted conclusion from verse 2168. Somehow you got the impression that the prophet sort of happily jumped into fire ? for which I see no Quranic support. Rather, from the story it is fairly clear that the prophet?s community forced to put him in fire as a punishment. If someone is thrown into fire by his community ? there is very little one can do to help himself.

Yes, the prophet DID NOT apologize to his community or beg for his life / forgiveness to them. That is because he had tawakkal upon Allah that - as long as he didn?t do anything wrong he had nothing to fear, nor to grieve. This is the type 2 tawakkal that I referred in my earlier post.

On a comparative note, when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) anticipated that his life is in danger in Mecca, he did leave Mecca and did hide in a cave on the way to avoid the Meccans. He was trying his best to avoid the capture using his God gifted abilities, and God did help him escape. There is no reason to believe if Prophet Ibrahim had a chance he would not try to flee from his people as well. In fact, he and his nephew Lot did eventually migrate away from the wrongdoing people (Ref 2171).

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Regards,
Arman

FreedomStands

Salaam,

No. There is no set criteria to be chosen as a prophet or messenger or both. It is only that God does as God wills. There is no way anyone can say why God does as He pleases, unless it is divinely inspired to someone chosen by God in the first place.

God chose prophet Isaa (pbuh) and he spoke from the craddle (where are the deeds?). Prophet Musa (pbuh)'s mother was inspired that God will make him of the messengers (again, where are the deeds?).

After God chose them, they were still capable of making mistakes and giving into temptation (which would incur the wrath of God), but having been chosen by God and guided specially to achieve a certain purpose, they were able to avoid ill-deeds and thus were among the upright and righteous.

None of the above strived to become messengers and or prophets, except that God chose them with His Majesty's free and unquestionable will.
We make no distinction between the prophets and/or messengers, but we do recognize that they were chosen for reasons absolutely unknown to us.

There are degrees of rank with God, but only God knows what and who they are awarded to. We do however know that disbelievers and wrongdoers/sinners are not part of this.

Striving to be chosen by God by taking certain actions is a sectarian concept, as they profess to know how God selects which is a lie against God. No one knows who or how or why God chooses an x,y,z individual or a group of people. Remember the sectarian concept? that all prophets including Muhammad (pbuh) were perfect in character which led to their being selected as prophets and/or messengers? This is speaking about God without knowledge.

These people were ordinary human beings like us, they were made special when God chose them. As to why God chose them, only God knows.

This is proper Islam. Finally we see a proper Muslim on this website. Notice the similarity in what was said here to what I say too.

Man_of_Faith

Prophets grow into their role, including Jesus and he was also tested.

That they were prospective prophets may have been decided already before they were born and signs of prophethood displayed to them during their early part of their life, if they are part of a prophecy.

Aaron/Harun was chosen prophet because Moses begged for help, but his brother was surely a good man already before.

Maryam was chosen to be the mother of Jesus due to her abstention from the world and righteous living. She had to live her life first to see that she was the person so it was not predestined.

It may depend a little on whether we believe reincarnation to be a true concept or not. Then it can explain why a young boy or girl is growing to become a prophet. The Rabb then simply knew the soul would be a good choice.

That is ruled out for those who think the future is already written though which I do not think due to that this life would be quite redundant if the Rabb already knew the outcome.