:: Do tawakkal on Allah or be a mushrik ::
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Freedomstands,
You are basically right except for one thing. Allah is not an entity at all and not even a noun but could be regarded as an adverb perhaps.
It is the Rabb (Sustaining Foundation) that executes every initiative that you take, and could prevent it should that Rabb also will, because that Rabb is like the electricity provider to your circuit and can control it.
But there are two sides of the coin. One side is the connection and reality with the Rabb and the other side is a projected reality called something like "contradiction" by the Rabb. This "projected reality" was made to test that species of Adam to create some sort of super-race as far as it seems. Those who can grow into perfect beings fit enough to be rulers. The purpose you have to ask the Rabb for. But as far as I am concerned it is simply to filter out the garbage and expose the defect products.
Be well
Oh yeah, I agree with that, I don't really imagine God as a person or a being really in the sense that we know when we refer to each other as persons or beings. I generally hesitate to ever refer to God in that way, but for the sake of people who do imagine God in such a way, I like to say there is only one person ultimately, and that we're always dealing with the same one. That is why I also imagine it is pointless to run away from people or exchange some people for another, since if its some issue we might have to learn with or is used to test or filter us we might face it again and again no matter who it is. Even when I hear people speak, to me I pay careful attention actually because I'm trying to hear what is being said to me from God, what hints there might be, even in everything I see.
Even the mainstream version calls the humans viceroys and indicates a filtering process is going on where people vie one with another in goodness and in being the most noble of all, that the humans left are going to be the rulers of the Earth whereas the rest exist in hell. Whatever the case is though, I try to behave in the most gracious and beneficent manner, like a good king, which I mentioned in some other posts to be noble and dignified and gracious and gift bearing and whatever else.
Now I have to clean my little Kingdom of an apartment a bit, my domain, where I let giant spiders wander freely.
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Salam,
I always get an alarm bell when I smell a whiff of pantheism, which is in fact shirk, and forbidden by Allah and that is this statement
So All in God and God in All.
but this statement seem to be OK in my view
All for One and One for All.
We are spirits from God, but we certainly are not in Him, and even less so, Him in us, but he is closer to us than the intersection of our jugular vein and our heart (habl alwarid in Arabic)
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Salam,
I always get an alarm bell when I smell a whiff of pantheism, which is in fact shirk, and forbidden by Allah and that is this statement
So All in God and God in All.
but this statement seem to be OK in my view
All for One and One for All.
We are spirits from God, but we certainly are not in Him, and even less so, Him in us, but he is closer to us than the intersection of our jugular vein and our heart (habl alwarid in Arabic)
Yeah, the way people usually talk about pantheism is totally shirk for the most part, which is why I tend to prefer panentheism (pan-en-theism) though all the ways the people talk about each thing is twisted anyway so you'll not find that great of stuff anywhere.
pan en theism is the one where everything is encompassed by God or within God, and pantheism is the one where everything is God, which in my case I only mean that God is controlling absolutely everything and we exist within and dependent upon God, not that a rock is encompassing God or is God or anything like that.
Ah, screw it though. Really throwing people into a pool of acid would be a better description of my understanding.
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When one has limited understanding of something, the wiser course is to remain silent
One does not always feel obligated to fill gaps laugh
Are you suggesting I have a limited understanding of Allah and the terms pantheism, panentheism, monism, monotheism, henotheism, or any particular combination of those words and concepts?
I think Allah is easy enough to understand as a concept. Allah is like nothing, not made of any information, so can not be experienced in any form (only information can be experienced), and Allah is what generates information (whatever at all is experienced).
What do you think of this? http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607171.msg362129#msg362129
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Peace
To be honest, I have always steered clear of defining the essence of Allah, as I don't want to speak about that which I can't understand.
The problem with me is that I think it is kind of important to know what it is that we are worshiping, otherwise there are many people who just take a word or a name and believe in it but with no clear idea of what they are directing their worship to. I really think the concept is an important thing to grasp, but it might not be important.
I feel one shouldn't do anything unless they understand why they are doing it and all about it. That is why I would recommend to people who are confused regarding religion to abstain until they properly understand what it is they are doing and why. If they don't even know what they are doing, their intentions might be skewed, not sure how much it counts if a person is just blindly doing things (not suggesting you're blindly doing things, I'm just saying in general).
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Peace @FreedomStands
Allah makes Himself known to us through His Attributes, which are Meaningful and Represent His Qualities.
As for His Essence, the 112th Sura of the Quran clearly states that we cannot apprehend Him on this side, so no use, or better not advisable to try, remember the passage of Moses asking Allah to show Himself to Him, how it ended for a poor mountain.
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Salute @theNabster
Allah makes Himself known to us through His Attributes, which are Meaningful and Represent His Qualities.
G-D is known to us through His Signs.
As for His Essence, the 112th Sura of the Quran clearly states that we cannot apprehend Him on this side, so no use, or better not advisable to try, remember the passage of Moses asking Allah to show Himself to Him, how it ended for a poor mountain.
To my knowledge, The Divine is inherently ONE.
Ergo, to me, G-D's "Essence" and Attributes are one and the same.Meaning The Unique/Singular G-D is essentially United in Attributes.
Hence, G-D using both Sing. and Pl. forms for His Absoluteness (in the Quran).This is my current understanding, our Master knows best.
SLM
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Asma'a al husnah,
the Rightful Labels/Names/Attributes.
Lillahi Al Asma'a al husnah...To realize/understand "What is G-D?"
An Adamite ought to know his/her place.~ It's very simple
G-D is Powerful = I'm weak
G-D is Eternal = I'm transient
G-D is Independent = I'm dependent
G-D is Knowledgeable = I'm ignorant
... and the list goes on and on (and on)Signs are of His Creation.
Did I say otherwise!?
SLM
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Peace,
Stop covering your misconceptions with static noise LOL!,
Allah is different from His Signs, Allah has Names/Attributes He likes to be called with, some of them you just cited.
His Signs examples are our languages, skin colour, the Skies, the Stars, the Moon, the Sun, the Oceans, Angels, and many of the things He created, including each and every ayat in the Quran, the Quran, and other Books He revealed, etc.
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Stop covering your misconceptions with static noise ) LOL!,
Allah is different from His Signs, Allah has Names/Attributes He likes to be called with, some of them you just cited.
Where did I ever say that G-D and His Signs are one and the same!?
You're the one who's trying to cover his misconception/s with static noise!
~ How unfortunate ...
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Depending on how you see it Pantheism is not "shirk" since you acknowledge that to exist you have to exist with the Rabb. And the mainstream faith is more "shirk" in that case being a duality.
In how it works you give absolutely no credit at all to yourself because you exist with the Rabb as the ultimate "platform". I have a hard time understanding how one can make that idolatry. What is idolatry anyway? A sectarian invention based on flawed understanding.
Even worship of that Allah is idolatry/shirk because automatically when you do it you made a separation and caused duality to emerge.
Where do you think this energy/light which constitutes your body and the world stems from? The Rabb!
The world/universe keeps its integrity due to the Rabb.
How is that not pantheism?
Your soul exists with the Rabb as a prerequisite and without the Rabb it has no sustainability. Yet the Rabb here is the background platform.
No matter how you twist or turn it you are part of that Rabb. And that Rabb has ultimate control over you because the Rabb is in control of every atom.
I have wondered why this concept is "shirk" for people. Intelligent people who call it that. It is not like you have any real say if that "mainframe" is about to execute a will anyway since it has absolute control. It is only that right now the system is running like an illusion that people believe they have any control because the Rabb is "fooling people" depending on how you see it to be able to sift out the bad people who have no proficiency to be anything on a higher mental level.
Be well
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so don't expect me to be polite in return
That is the absolutely wrong thinking. Think the other way.
This thinking is exactly the reason why people will not succeed the test. Trust me. Or trust me not because that is probably what you are going to do.
Be well
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Peace @FreedomStands
Allah makes Himself known to us through His Attributes, which are Meaningful and Represent His Qualities.
As for His Essence, the 112th Sura of the Quran clearly states that we cannot apprehend Him on this side, so no use, or better not advisable to try, remember the passage of Moses asking Allah to show Himself to Him, how it ended for a poor mountain.
But that is the revelation that I use to reference what Allah is, because when Musa got up he said Subhan, that Allah is like Nothing, total annihilation of everything, like death, there is nothing to see because if anyone sees anything its a creation of Allah (information), and Allah is non-information. non-information can never be comprehended or experienced directly, but the concept at least can be understood. I don't think it is too safe to not have a clear idea of what Allah is because then some people might be saying Allah and imagining some old man in the sky or something.