Ambition and the Quran
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Peace,
I was not talking about stone age, but I was talking about at any time in history when such action is required.
where there are law and order, and complex system of life . . . .
And you say that there is law and order. I cannot see that when I read the news. How complicated? It is not more complicated than how we make it. Underneath our fancy stuff and complications it is the same barbarians as in the past.
We are discussing about "Ambition and the Quran", the scale of success and True Believers in the Quran . . .
I am not sure why you mix that up with "True Believers" and then in the context of the recitation.
Your True Believer has nothing to do with possessions. Nothing indicates that you need to possess grand wealth to buy your faith and rank in God's domain. And it is your willingness to spend of what you have that determines your faith and it is harder for the poor man to give away money than the rich man. And the education about God is not done through some institution and you can clearly see that the institutions (so-called Islamic universities) know but very little.
If you have faith in The Master you will get your "ambition".
928 O you who have faith, the associators are impure, so let them not approach the Restricted Temple after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then God will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
5348 And He is the One who makes you rich or poor.
599 And those who provided them with shelter, and were believers before them; they love those who immigrated to them, and they find no hesitation in their hearts in helping them, and they readily give them priority over themselves, even when they themselves need what they give away. Indeed, those who overcome their desires are the successful ones.
657 The rich shall provide support in accordance with his means, and the poor shall provide according to the means that God bestowed upon him. God does not burden any soul more than He has given it. God will provide ease after difficulty.
I suppose you base your arrogance on these two passages
1675 God puts forth the example of a slave who is owned and cannot achieve anything, against one whom We have provided a good provision which he spends of it secretly and openly. Are they the same? Praise be to God, but most of them do not know.
1676 And God puts forth the example of two men, one of them is mute and he cannot achieve anything, and he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he points him, he does not come with any good. Is he the same as one who orders good and he is upon a straight path?
1832 And give them the example of two men We made for one of them two gardens of grapes, and We surrounded them with palm trees, and We made crops in their midst.
1833 Each of the two gardens brought forth its produce, and none failed in the least. And We caused a river to gush through them.
1834 And he had fruit, so he said to his friend while discussing with him ?I am better off than you financially, and of great influence.?
1835 And he went back into his garden while he had wronged himself. He said ?I do not think that this will ever perish.?
1836 ?And I do not think that the Hour is coming. And if I am indeed returned to my Lord, then I will surely find even better things for me.?
1837 His friend said to him while discussing with him ?Have you disbelieved in the One who has created you from dust, then from a seed, then He evolved you into a man??
1838 ?But He is God, my Lord, and I do not set up any partners at all with my Lord.?
1839 ?And if you enter your garden, you should say ?This is what God has given, there is no power except by God.? You see me as being less than you in wealth and in children??
1840 ?Perhaps my Lord will give me better than your garden, and He will send upon it a tornado from the sky, so it becomes completely barren.?
1841 ?Or that its water becomes deep under-ground, so you will not be capable of seeking it.?
1842 So his fruits were ruined, and he began turning his hands at that which he had spent on it while it remained destroyed upon its branches. And he said ?I wish I had not set up any partner with my Lord!?
1843 And he had no group which could help against God, and he would not have had victory.
1844 Such is the true authority of God. He is best to reward, and best to end.What do you think is the moral lesson of this narrative?
2247 And their prophet said to them ?God has sent Saul to you as a king.? They said ?How can he have the kingship when we are more deserving than him, and he has not been given an abundance of wealth?? He said ?God has chosen him over you and increased him in knowledge and physical stature.? God grants His sovereignty to whom He chooses; and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
Does wealth matter all that much?
Did not Ebless say "I am better than he?" And he probably is better but the lesson is not that. The lesson is about arrogance.
Here is the passage that you base your arrogance on
7179 And We have given to Hell many of the Jinn and mankind; they had hearts with which they did not understand, and they had eyes with which they did not see, and they had ears with which they did not hear. They are like livestock; no, they are even more astray. These are the unaware ones.
These are those who do not understand about God and I am puzzled how you connect that to poor people.
Therefore, I believe True Believers are not useless, lazy or weak people (ie. worst than livestock)
How do you relate the verse above to that statement?
This verse reinforces the fact, that whatever is good in this world, is permittable to us, on the only condition, THAT WE DO GOOD (means we attain it in a rigtful way and also use it rightfully)
We get it if we do good.
This is the condition of a True Believer. . .
Indeed, within the heavens and earth are signs for the believers <- scientific knowledge etc
And in the creation of yourselves
and what He disperses of moving creatures
are signs for people who are certain
And the alternation of night and day
and what Allah sends down from the sky of provision
and gives life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and directing of the winds
are signs for a people who reason
These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth
Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?
453-6Those who are stupid, lazy, lack of reasoning skills or not well educated cannot understand the above signs
You attempt to extract an arrogant meaning by simply conjecturing about something. It does not have to do with institutional education but it can be just simple facts that you ponder upon.
Those who are stupid, lazy, lack of reasoning skills or not well educated cannot understand the above signs
Institutional education has nothing to do with it, but I can agree on stupid or lack of reasoning skill.
They did not use their brain and believe in magic and that Allah will send them food from the sky . . .
There is no magic. How do you think here?
Poor people cannot give sadaqah, they live and burden other people
A poor person with modesty does not necessarily have to burden other people as long as they provide enough for themselves, or rather that God provides for them.
Righteous people is right, but not accurate in today's world. . . the poor and and middle income righteous people cannot benefit humanity
And how can these people not benefit humanity. Is bodily work not worth anything?
taken into account the complex social and financial system in today's world etc
Are these your idols?
Please tell me, how do you change the monetary system ?
The fractional reserve banking , and solve the poverty problem in this world ?
Can righteousness alone achieve this , and without jeopardizing life of many people etc ?
And you think if not the 1% of humanity would share there would be any poverty?
Therefore, we don't need "ambition" to become poor or middle income people. . . it is off-topic, ie. this thread.
It takes ambition to come closer to God. And it does not matter if it is a poor, middle income or rich person.
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And you say that there is law and order. I cannot see that when I read the news. How complicated? It is not more complicated than how we make it. Underneath our fancy stuff and complications it is the same barbarians as in the past.
Generally, everything in this world is govern by law and orders. .
They have laws for everything, and they have institutions to implement that law . . . .This is the reality
You can call it barbarians or any names you like , but they are more advanced barbarians
and there are "Sunnatullah" for dealing with this type of societyTherefore, you can confront them "peacefully", without jeopardizing the Ummah or anyone else
or you can confront them through "oppression", "riots", "wars" etc. . . which many would be killedand in which case, they did not used these "mechanism" to control the "system". . .
Thus, you will be the one who uses oppression, and corrupt the earthAnd if you punish
punish with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed
But if you are patient - it is better for those who are patient.
16.126ie. to control the system. . to be successful and oppose them with economy etc,
or to make them indebted to us and take over the system.. . .
I am not sure why you mix that up with "True Believers" and then in the context of the recitation.
The Quran has its legal structure, and it has the "definition provision" to define terms in the Quran . . .
much like any other laws existed today, ie. the "interpretation clause", or "Interpretation Act" to define terms in their legal texts.and when the Quran said. . .
The believers ARE ONLY the ones
(1) who have believed in Allah and His Messenger <- ie. follow the commands
(2) and then doubt not <- ie. not even 0.1%
(3) but strive with <- ie. motivation
(4) their properties <- ie. do you have wealth?
(5) and their lives <- ie. do you have skills?
(6) in the cause of Allah . <- to read the signs, and use your wealth and skills with justiceIt is those who are the truthful.
49.15It means , only those people are the "Believers" , and the understanding of "Believers" shall be subjected to the above "interpretation clause" (verse). Not only that, the "Believers" must have "wealth" and "skills" etc. Only they are the "Believers".
This is confirmed by Allah in the following verse. . .
The bedouins say, "We have believed."
Say, "You have not believed; <- according to Allah, they are not "Believers", but "Submitters"
but say, 'We have submitted,'
for faith has not yet entered your hearts.
And if you obey Allah and His Messenger,
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything.
Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
49.14Therefore , if Allah says "You have not believed"
It means , "You have not believed"
It does not mean "You have believed". . .
If you have faith in The Master you will get your "ambition".
Correction, if you have faith in what your Master "have commanded". . .ie. to see the signs and use it wisely, with balance and justice.
How could you have faith in Allah alone , and without going a step further to link the word "Allah" with "His commands" ?
Have you see Allah ?
Touch Allah ?
Hear Allah ?What kind of "Deen" is this ? (system of life, practical life)
To live miserably with things cannot be proven with facts ?This what I mean as to live in the "Mutasyaabihat Context of Life"
They live in illusion and abuse their sense perception and reality (signs)
They have heart which they cannot understand
They have eyes which they cannot see
They have ears which they cannot hear
They are like livestock, and worst. . . . they are burden to others, ie. their government etc.It is He who sent down the Book to you from Him
ayats containing clear judgements
they are the core of the Bookand others which are open to interpretation (eg. Allah, Hell, Paradise, Angels etc)
Those with deviation in their hearts
follow what is open to interpretation in it
desiring conflict
seeking its inner meaningNo one knows its inner meaning <- Allah says "no one knows", it means "no one knows"
but AllahThose firmly rooted in knowledge say
?We have iman in it.
All of it is from our Lord.?
But only people of intelligence pay heed.
3.7Therefore, the Deen is about our "practical way of life", not on matters that cannot be proven with facts . . . and this is the Deen of Islam, our life. . . now, not previous or future.
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Your correction is wrong. It is the faith in The Master that determines the need to have faith in what is decreed. If you had no faith at all then you would not think there is a reason to adhere to any moral laws and you could do anything to acquire wealth and power, and you could be arrogant because nothing has told you to be otherwise.
If you do exclusively good that must be because you have some innate feeling that it is our actions matter somehow.
And to do good does not necessarily have to involve monetary funds, but can be simply helping a weak old woman across the street. And no money is needed to help an elder in his final years. And you can save a brother against aggressive evildoers without money. And you can do cpr on a man or woman whose heart has stopped without money. You can dive into violent waters to save a child that is drowning without money. That is good ambition.
But to sit here and preach that poor and uneducated people are worthless, and middle income standard people have few ways to contribute, and no "True Believers", is that ambition?
It looks a lot like Ebless and the angels when they were told to show some respect to Adam. "I am stronger, have more possesions and know more than he does".
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And you misrepresent 37. Those with knowledge also understand the allegories. They say that they have faith in it.
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Your correction is wrong. It is the faith in The Master that determines the need to have faith in what is decreed.
It is up to you . . and it is your "Deen" to live in and interpreting things that Allah says "no one knows"
Therefore, who is the Iblees ? To be the one who are smarter than Allah and can interpreting things that Allah said "no one knows"?or the alternative . . you may adhere to the reality and read the signs , and use it with balance and justice . . .
This is our mission
. . .
And to do good does not necessarily have to involve monetary funds, but can be simply helping a weak old woman across the street.
Then it does not relate to benefiting the "society", the "humanity" . . . which is fine, as a "Muslim" or "Reformers", but not the "True Believers".
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And you misrepresent 37. Those with knowledge also understand the allegories. They say that they have faith in it.
Nope. . you are misinterpreted that verse, because if they understand the allegories, then it is inconsistent with the word "no one knows except Allah" (rule of negation, "except". . ie. ONLY Allah knows their meaning), and also take note on the rule of "double negative".
Therefore, the last part of that verse is about only those who are "firmly rooted in knowledge" will take heed on the "reminder" of Allah in that verse. . . Other than that, they are not people of "firmly rooted in knowledge" but are those who have the elements of deviation and diseases in their hearts.
Those firmly rooted in knowledge say ?We have iman in it. All of it is from our Lord.? But only people of intelligence pay heed (to the reminder of Allah in verse 3.7).
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There is no double negative. It is a "wa" after Allah. It includes Allah (God) and those with knowledge. If you have guidance and knowledge and wisdom then the allegorical passages will become clear to you, but for those who no faith will just mutter "what did God mean by this?" And those without faith will not follow the decree.
Anyway that is a dispute over Arabic grammar. It is not the same in every translation. But the translation becomes nonsensical the way you describe it. It means God made similitudes in the narration and then no one understands it. Where is your logic?
"True Believers" are those who have faith (iman) and do good and avoid evil things such as arrogance and oppression. Knowledge you have if you understand something.
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Then it does not relate to benefiting the "society", the "humanity" . . . which is fine, as a "Muslim" or "Reformers", but not the "True Believers".
Altruism (selflessness) benefits society (those living around you). "True Believers" don't fit a certain mold that involves wealth strictly in the financial sense, it can but doesn't only have to. Consider 614 God loves those who fight in His cause as one column; they are like bricks in a wall. As in any structure, it all works together to hold it up, one cause with many different ways to support it. Are we going to argue these are not "True Believers"...only Mr. Altruistic MoneyBucks is? Seriously. -
"True Believers" don't fit a certain mold that involves wealth strictly in the financial sense, it can but doesn't only have to.
True but since this thread is about "ambition", and Allah says "properties" . . .
Therefore True Believers must have "wealth". . .
(3) but strive with <- ie. motivation
(4) their properties <- ie. do you have wealth?
(5) and their lives <- ie. do you have skills?
49.15Those who do not have "wealth" cannot strive with their "properties"
It is better for them to feed themselves and not burdening other people, rather than thinking about something else. . .
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And none will HEED it except those who possess knowledge.
Peace out
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I say strive with themselves and their possessions. You think that only material things are useful matters?
And I told you examples of ambitions that one can undertake without any money at all.
True Believers must have faith and strive in the cause of God in whatever way.
Those who have no properties can contribute with their bodies.
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No. You need to translate the passage correctly.
None will heed (or take it to heart) except those who posses intelligence.
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Your very body is in control or possession of you. You can strive with it, with possessions or not.
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None will heed (or take it to heart) except those who posses intelligence.
I see no merit on your objection . .
First you contest that there are no "double negative", and it is clear. . .
and now you contest on the meaning of "heed" , as it means to "take it to heart"
What difference that is makes ?
It doesn't matter much to me since I can agree with you that it is about to "take it to heart"
but it is related to the "reminder of Allah in verse 3.7", ie. no one knows its interpretation except Allah.
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Your very body is in control or possession of you. You can strive with it, with possessions or not.
So if you want to believe that "body" is a "property" . . it is up to you, it is your opinion.
However, I've never seen people interpreted "body" as "property", including in the Quran or any legal texts etc.
In fact, the verse distinguish between "properties" and "lives" (body).
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No. Those who possess intelligence knows it meaning. They heed (its message) and obey.
Why would God enter allegorical phrases and then let no one understand them whatsoever. Is that not redundant revelation?
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True but since this thread about "ambition", and Allah says "properties" . . .
It depends on people and their circumstances, there are many different circumstances in rl and to brush them all over with a very stringent black and white criteria is for one not realistic and two, takes the verses in a very narrow sense that would contradict other places where we told to do good with what we have in different ways. No one can argue that taking time off to teach illiterate kids is a good act, an altruistic act, it doesn't have to involve money and it would benefit society. if one has the ambition to do good, then there are a million ways of doing so regardless of financial wealth. Properties can be taken as whatever you have in terms of assets. If you don't have financial assets, doesn't necessarily mean you're out of the running. You may have other assets as valuable. God is not unaware of the realities.It is better for them to feed themselves and not burdening other people, rather thanking about something else. . .
Your reasoning here is as bad as that of those who want the poor shipped off to some island and left to fend for themselves since they are a burden on society. It's almost as if we're reading different books here, which we well can be since I see no evidence of such in the quran. It is unrealistic, shortsighted and absurd.