Person who believes in God but does not practice organized religion
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Salamun Alaikum brother Jafar.
I believe we have reached the end of the discussion here. There were some finer points in your earlier post which I may have initially missed, but then again the way you presented your original arguments had significant shortcomings. Here are my take-aways from the discussion
On Qur?an being preached by Muhammad
Yes, I agree that Muhammad (pbh) could not have possibly referred to sura number X, verse number Y of Al Qur?an during his lifetife; rather it was more like on a given situation he received a particular inspiration and would say ? on this topic I would refer to the inspiration I received today, ??? etc. These inspirations were supposedly meticulously recorded and memorized by his followers and subsequently consolidated in the book named Qur?an. I still hold there is considerable historical evidence to support a belief that all the contents of the book named Qur?an that we have with us today is only a complete collection of all the ?inspirations? that Muhammad received and preached and it is arranged in an order recommended by him. The sura name, number and verse number may be later innovations to facilitate referencing ? but that does not negate that the contents of the book were, in all possibilities, preached by Muhammad.On Holy Book
I agree that human beings have and should have the freedom to believe or not believe any particular book as holy. There was no holy book from the beginning of mankind ? so no holy book can be a part of ?basic requirement? for a successful human life. But this DOES NOT rule out the possibility that the Intelligence and Power which is behind the design and sustenance of the universe, including mankind, may devise a way to communicate with mankind through chosen individuals. And if a person claims to have received such communications in the form of inspirations and there are a group of ?disciples? who study the inspiration ? find it appropriate and consistent with the design of the universe as well as human morality and intelligence ? then there is nothing wrong for the disciples to believe in that person and to believe in the inspirations that he brings as holy. However, I do agree imposing the inspiration on other unwilling people is unacceptable. A vast majority of the people who claim to be followers of Muhammad and claim to be ?Quranist? do idolize Muhammad and do idolize Qur?an to an unacceptable degree.I am emphasizing the term "Believe" because I need to clearly specify the meaning of this term as I intend above. To me "believe" is NOT "to accept a statement without any argument" (like some people believe in ghost), but rather "believe" is "accpting an statement after careful consideration and full satisfaction." (like scientists believe that earth rotates around the sun).
If you do not agree with the above you can summarize in your words ? and then let us move on.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman
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Salamun Alaikum brother Jafar.
I believe we have reached the end of the discussion here. There were some finer points in your earlier post which I may have initially missed, but then again the way you presented your original arguments had significant shortcomings. Here are my take-aways from the discussion
On Qur?an being preached by Muhammad
Yes, I agree that Muhammad (pbh) could not have possibly referred to sura number X, verse number Y of Al Qur?an during his lifetife; rather it was more like on a given situation he received a particular inspiration and would say ? on this topic I would refer to the inspiration I received today, ??? etc. These inspirations were supposedly meticulously recorded and memorized by his followers and subsequently consolidated in the book named Qur?an. I still hold there is considerable historical evidence to support a belief that all the contents of the book named Qur?an that we have with us today is only a complete collection of all the ?inspirations? that Muhammad received and preached and it is arranged in an order recommended by him. The sura name, number and verse number may be later innovations to facilitate referencing ? but that does not negate that the contents of the book were, in all possibilities, preached by Muhammad.On Holy Book
I agree that human beings have and should have the freedom to believe or not believe any particular book as holy. There was no holy book from the beginning of mankind ? so no holy book can be a part of ?basic requirement? for a successful human life. But this DOES NOT rule out the possibility that the Intelligence and Power which is behind the design and sustenance of the universe, including mankind, may devise a way to communicate with mankind through chosen individuals. And if a person claims to have received such communications in the form of inspirations and there are a group of ?disciples? who study the inspiration ? find it appropriate and consistent with the design of the universe as well as human morality and intelligence ? then there is nothing wrong for the disciples to believe in that person and to believe in the inspirations that he brings as holy. However, I do agree imposing the inspiration on other unwilling people is unacceptable. A vast majority of the people who claim to be followers of Muhammad and claim to be ?Quranist? do idolize Muhammad and do idolize Qur?an to an unacceptable degree.I am emphasizing the term "Believe" because I need to clearly specify the meaning of this term as I intend above. To me "believe" is NOT "to accept a statement without any argument" (like some people believe in ghost), but rather "believe" is "accpting an statement after careful consideration and full satisfaction." (like scientists believe that earth rotates around the sun).
If you do not agree with the above you can summarize in your words ? and then let us move on.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman
From my perspective.. the discussion shall never ends..
As with an answer it always brings up some new questions..
The more we know, the more we're aware there's so many things that we do not know..I'm now intrigued on how such 'mentality' exists mainly within those who are 'related' with Judaism..
Who initiated such 'thinking' thus it become widespread?
Why they developed such thinking?
How it's started, developed and evolved?
And when did it started? (Most definitely after the invention of paper and ink)Salam / Peace