Free Will / Free Choice... Is the Creator all knowledgeable?
-
Salaam,
Red Here is the problem.
I understood in a different way.209
And has the story of Musa reached you?
2010
When he saw a fire and said to his family, "Stay here; indeed, I have perceived a fire; perhaps I can bring you a torch or find at the fire some guidance."
2011
And when he came to it, he was called, O Musa
Please note that there is third party who is giving us information about Musa. This is not a direct reported speech.
2012
Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.
2013
And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed
2014
Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so worship Me and establish prayer for My remembrance.
This is the speech of Allah with Musa, referring Himself as "I" never "We".
2015
Indeed, the Hour is coming - I almost conceal it - so that every soul may be recompensed according to that for which it strives.
2016
So do not let one avert you from it who does not believe in it and follows his desire, for you would perish.
2017
And what is that in your right hand, O Musa?
I believe that this was not asked by Allah, because in the following aayaat it is cleared inshaAllah.
2018
He said, "It is my staff; I lean upon it, and I bring down leaves for my sheep and I have therein other uses."
2019
Said, "Throw it down, O Musa."
2020
So he threw it down, and thereupon it was a snake, moving swiftly.
2021
Said, "Seize it and fear not; We will return it to its former condition."
One from "We" said that all not Allah. If you are confused with who are "We" 1964 may help you understand, inshaAllah.
Allah is all Knowledgeable, He does not need to ask Musa.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanPeace mmkhan,
I don't quite understand how you resorted to this conversation being anything to do with anyone other than Allah. Even though the "we" is used at the end, there are many times that "we" has been used just to denote Allah. As you might know, the "we" in Arabic can be used to denote an elevated status, it denotes more "royalty" I.e. makes the subject seem much higher than those spoken about in the context.
Plus, the verse right before it does imply God is talking. Even at the beginning of chapter 20, it says "we sent down the Qur'an....." So God didn't send down the Quran?... I'm sorry but I have to reject this unless there is more evidence. The pointer to chapter 19 doesn't really matter as the context is different. "We" is referred to different entities in the quran, but it is clear that in chapter 20, that entity is Allah...
Peace peace
-
Peace,
I think you presume too much. I know about GTA4 and I have played it until the end. I does not really shine of righteousness though.
What I said was that you have made a choice to do something, but God had decided that you will die tomorrow morning. It means that God had already willed that and it would be like a trigger parameter that was already programmed. And God can have willed that you died exactly on August 14, 2014 at 331am and then you will die exactly at that moment. But like we said, God can adjust every plan in real time to suit your performance. Like games where the difficulty setting is changed depending on how good/bad you play, see? And role playing games are good examples as allegories. I had a thread called the game allegory some time ago where I used this kind of allegorical ideas to explain our faith and by often using Star Wars's the force to be God and the fight between good and evil.
It is very conjectural to talk about this because we do not really know how advanced God's programming is so it is beyond our comprehension. But I would suppose that to God everything "feels" like in real time despite already anticipated every possible move because God is in perfect control and despite not knowing what course of action that you will take then God still has plans for you by the moment a change in the course of action takes place. In the end God has a plan for you no matter if you one moment is the best and faithful servant and the other you turn mischievous so God is never unprepared. Because God is omni-present this is easy for God to do.
But no. I do not think God knows the outcome of this test because it is like in the phrase you took as offensive. But God cannot be fooled because while God has made our egos then God is in control and because a creator has perfect control of time as we know it then he could just freeze his view of the game world and without delay and just make adjustments. That was just allegorically because God can do that without any time span and it was just a show of how much we are within God's grasp. And God certainly reads our minds, all those billions of people at the same time. Is not our Master immensely powerful?
So if you test someone that is because you do not know how someone will perform.
God bless you
Peace mof,
Sorry I assumed. Many people on this site are not acquainted with console games, especially Rockstar's games...
Anyway, I was with you up until you said you don't think God knows the outcome of the test. I'm in disagreement. I think God does know the outcome of the test, or in fact the outcome of every path we take. I also believe God knows about every possible path available and can perhaps prevent a certain path from being taken, however I do not believe God knows which path you will take (but it knows the path you are currently taking). There is no planning necessary based on what path someone takes, as the path can be changed by the person anytime.
However, I do agree on the part that says "you test someone because you don't know how well they perform". In other words, you don't know which one of the outcomes that you know about will they reach...
Peace peace
-
Peace,
So you think God knows aye?
Well God sure knows a lot so that is a matter near conjecture as a topic, but one thing is sure and that is we cannot go around with that image in our minds. It is dangerous because it may invite to not actively take part.
God bless you
-
If we don't have free-wills, we are all doing God's commands now. Simple logic about free-wills.
-
Peace mmkhan,
I don't quite understand how you resorted to this conversation being anything to do with anyone other than Allah. Even though the "we" is used at the end, there are many times that "we" has been used just to denote Allah. As you might know, the "we" in Arabic can be used to denote an elevated status, it denotes more "royalty" I.e. makes the subject seem much higher than those spoken about in the context.
Peace Sushi,
I quoted a quote from your message about Musa, so I just wanted to clarify that Musa was not asked by Allah about his cane.
Red I strongly believe that "we" is never used for Allah in alQuraan/alKitaab. And if you understand this part, then you will know how Allah is all knowledgeable, inshaAllah.Plus, the verse right before it does imply God is talking. Even at the beginning of chapter 20, it says "we sent down the Qur'an....." So God didn't send down the Quran?... I'm sorry but I have to reject this unless there is more evidence.
Yes, the workers who work on behalf of Allah send down alQuraan.
I respect your views. But for example we will take a word "qaala" is used in alQuraan/alKitaab, but used for normal human beings or other creation but not for Allah. There must be some difference to make it out, so here is the difference inshaAllah.23112
http//www.ahadees.com/images/quran/arabic/23_112.gif
Said, "How long did you remain on earth in number of years?"Please note the difference in text of word . Wherever this word is used, it is used for others unlike in the above quoted aayat which is used for Allah.
In some of the copies of alQuraan/alKitaab, the difference of qaala is not clearly shown. If so, you can take a look at the following links.
Link # 1
Link # 2The pointer to chapter 19 doesn't really matter as the context is different. "We" is referred to different entities in the quran, but it is clear that in chapter 20, that entity is Allah...
Peace peace
InshaAllah, I will write down on "We" and "I" with the permission of my Lord, Allah. Then this matter will be clarified, inshaAllah.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
The workers who work on behalf of Allah?
Do you know who are they, brother? Do you mean the angels?
Peace.
Peace,
There are "WE" who were given authority by Allah. And they even rule on angels )
Like in 1761 "And when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam,"..."May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
I think prostrate means that adam was in charge on earth apart from allah always being in charge offcourse. It doesn't mean to physically prostrating. The devil had to prostrate also but refused. If it was physicall than it's commiting shirk in my view. Do some also think that way? For example starts also prostrate according quran that can't be physical.
Peace peace
-
There are "WE" who were given authority by Allah.
But, who are they? confused
And they even rule on angels )
Wow! So cool... D
Like in 1761 "And when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam,"..."
So, do you think that "those" who referred to as "We" (on the verse above) does not include Allah?
Peace.
-
I think prostrate means that adam was in charge on earth apart from allah always being in charge offcourse. It doesn't mean to physically prostrating. The devil had to prostrate also but refused. If it was physicall than it's commiting shirk in my view. Do some also think that way? For example starts also prostrate according quran that can't be physical.
Peace peace
Peace,
Yes I also think physical prostrating to someone other than Allah is shirk.
You can take a look at my thread about it here.May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace Ikrame,
The angels were told to respect Adam and not prostrate to him. And Ibless refused because he looked down on someone that was much inferior in his eyes.
God bless you
-
But, who are they? confused
Salaam,
They are the other creation other than human and jinn.
It is like you decided to construct your house. And you gave it to a contractor and labors work to construct it.
But still you say that I built this house in 2012.
Labors say WE built this house in 2012.And both are correct, this is how I understand it.
Wow! So cool... D
So, do you think that "those" who referred to as "We" (on the verse above) does not include Allah?Peace.
Of-course not, Allah never include anyone in His work but He just order hail alhamduliAllah hail
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace Ikrame,
Just you will probably not find many if any that translates it that way. It is a claim by me based on studies of the original Arabic word sjd independent from use of traditional bias and with a better literal quality use of the word in its occurrences.
God bless you
-
And Ibless refused because he looked down on someone that was much inferior in his eyes.
Lessons learned
- Don't be proud
- Do not see yourselves, your social identity, your country, your religion, your favorite holy book, your favorite football team, your group etc.. as superior to others..
-
Peace everyone,
I agree with mmkhan about "we" being other entities. Most likely they are the 6th and 7th density beings who have been given control by the Infinite Creator. We are 3rd density beings who will evolve to the 4th density state of existence (what is referred to as paradise or heaven in the Quran). Then we will continue to evolve until we reach 5th, 6th and then the 7th density states of existence over millions of years and then eventually we will return to the one Infinite Creator.
We are all living in the past of the Infinite Creator (relatively speaking, because the Infinite Creator is not bound by time and space). So everything that is happening now for us has already happened for the Infinite Creator. That is how the Infinite Creator knows everything even though we are choosing it now in our present using the law of free will.
Question to everyone Is the Creator infinite? If yes, then where does the Infinite Creator end and we begin? So are we (creation) separate from the Infinite Creator? If yes then the Creator ends somewhere and the creation begins at that point and the Creator is not infinite. So what is the reality? Think about it. There is only one logical conclusion, and that will clarify the "we" and "I" !!
All praise, glory and thanks belong to the Infinite Creator.
Peace
-
I agree with mmkhan about "we" being other entities. Most likely they are the 6th and 7th density beings who have been given control by the Infinite Creator. We are 3rd density beings who will evolve to the 4th density state of existence (what is referred to as paradise or heaven in the Quran). Then we will continue to evolve until we reach 5th, 6th and then the 7th density states of existence over millions of years and then eventually we will return to the one Infinite Creator.
I heard similar concept from "Theravadaist" with their 7 stage of enlightenment..
Question to everyone Is the Creator infinite?
Yes
The Tao is like a well used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void filled with infinite possibilities.
It is hidden but always present.If yes, then where does the Infinite Creator end and we begin?
He/it has no beginning and no end on all dimension (space, time or others that we're not aware of)
Otherwise he/it's not infinite."Me" (from any perspective, angle and dimension) are within..
This lead to another intriguing question Where is you in you? (or me in me).
When you look at yourself in the mirror- Can you pinpoint where is you in you?
- Do you see "one being"? or millions of it?
As a reference One human body is a country with population of ten to twenty millions of 'micro-sized beings'.
So are we (creation) separate from the Infinite Creator?
Nope
So what is the reality? Think about it.
All 'realities' are projection of things that one received through its senses.
The 'real' you doesn't necessarily need to be within the reality itself.
As long as you're receiving the 'projection' coming from your senses, you will still perceived the reality as you're experiencing it.Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.
Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. -
Jafar bravo handshake
I am becoming a big fan of yours )
We are all part of the Infinite Creator. We are all one. The separateness is just a temporary illusion in our 3rd density state of existence, as the various physical manifestations of the same infinite energy.
The trillions of cells in Jafar's body cannot each claim to be Jafar, but the collection of the trillions of cells can claim to be Jafar. When Jafar eats, the trillions of cells are absorbing nutrients through the membranes and they can say "We" ate, and Jafar can say "I" ate.
Events happening at the micro quantum level are random just like free will but at the macro level it only results in a certain definite event. At the cellular level certain amino acid molecules might be picked at random (free will) to construct a protein and other amino acid molecules might be picked at random (free will) to be metabolized, but the end result is life.
All humans (micro parts of the One) might make different micro decisions using their free will but the macro end result in the long run over millions of years will always be ascension and evolution towards merging back with the One and disappearance of the illusion of separateness. The paths taken using free will might be different, some much longer than others, and some much shorter and faster, but they will all result in a greater diversity of experience and lead to the same destination eventually.
Thus the Infinite Creator experiences itself. The experience is greater and more diverse and the evolution is faster with presence of polarity of good and bad and the presence of free will, than with the absence of free will and thereby existence of good only.
Everyone think and meditate about this.
All praise, glory and thanks belong to the One Infinite Creator.
Peace
-
Peace,
So you think God knows aye?
Well God sure knows a lot so that is a matter near conjecture as a topic, but one thing is sure and that is we cannot go around with that image in our minds. It is dangerous because it mayi invite to not actively take part.
God bless you
Lol, I know God knows what has been predestined, I know God knows what will happen as a result of taking a path. I don't think God knows which path we will take but if God works in real-time (which I expect it does) then every move we make God plans and will be prepared for the next move we take because God knows all moves... If that makes sense. Either way, the main thing as you said isn't to be all like 'oh I'll let God decide my fate" cos it defeats the point in my opinion. You choose the path which will result in a different outcome than another path (or it could result in the same outcome). Either way God knows the outcomes, we don't so we couldn't say if it would be different or not anyway ).
(PS sorry for the late response, I haven't had a chance to rest for a second except now)
peace