SALAM : NEVER SAY
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Peace drfazl,
You asked
This is a question for you to answer. If we never look for such SIGNS from ALLAH in a person before we say 'salam' to him in return, it indeed is not keeping up our FAITH.I understand your point completely and I agree. But what I do not agree with is in not giving folks the benefit of the doubt, especially when people approach with peace.
What i do not understand is, 'who are we to give the benefit whether doubtful or not?' If at all peace comes it is from Allah alone. Allah listens to one's heart and knows the hidden secrets of us. If our hearts are truthful with fear for Allah His reward as perfect recompense is " Peace!" Again who are we to give peace except that we pray for the same. I am only discussing; not to interfere with anyone's right.
Your understanding of "those who have faith" is indeed comprehensive, and that is your right. But it is my right to not hold everyone to the same golden standard. In my intial contact with a person, I greet with peace. And more often than not, the gesture is returned. Usually, this groundwork remains as we evolve in our relationships. We may disagree, but we remain peaceful and respectful, because that is my intention, and the intention of those whom I interact with.
It is not my intention to interfere with any one's right to stick to his community's 'golden standards'. And I prefer no comments on it. What we have here is discussion, not forcing a change in the ways of each other. If one wishes to change ways it is his personal change in standards.
2284 To God belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. Whether you declare your innermost thoughts, or keep them hidden, GOD holds you responsible for them...
Here we see the power and importance of intention, even though you call it a process of the mind, as if this is a simple or bad thing. It is not bad nor simple. Intention is what seperates the good from the bad.
Allah says this
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And Allah's are the best names, therefore call on Him thereby, and leave alone those who violate the sanctity of His names; they shall be recompensed for what they did.Salam is one of Allah's names is what I wanted to rehearse. Never Say SALAAM was for those who might have forgotten or who might have over looked an ayat that strongly warns agaisnt using His Names unjustfiedly. If you say you saying 'Peace!' is not invoking His Name since it is the standard worldly practice, you know what you mean by it better than me.
I will reiterate for the sake of clarity
My intention in greeting with "peace be upon you" is not to grant peace. It is not to insult Allah. It is not to invoke the magic of Allah onto someone. It is only a warm gesture. It is a reminder to myself and to those whom I speak with to remain peaceful.
What is wrong with that?
"Not to grant Peace!" Well said. We are speaking the same point in different languages, for a very long time now!
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
idolfree1 wrote
Peace be upon you Doctor,
I believe in both mind and wisdom, and I follow the instruction to greet with the purposeful greeting of "Peace".Both are not opposites then, right? One form needs the help of another form for confirmation, for anyone who need strengthening his wisdom. If one can get at the wisdom straight, he needs no confirmation from the other form. But you keep refusing to accept me atleast at my level when i denounce knowledge/mind.
If someone can get at widsom directly, that would be great, but how could one be so arrogant as to forget about those who DO need knowledge to get to wisdom? How can one be so arrogant to reject knowledge when the God tells us clearly to seek increse in knowledge?
May be for you it is unacceptable; but you failed to appreciate that it is possible for any one to get at the wisdom without the aid of mind/knowledge who might have been endowed.
No, you are wrong, I do accept that one can get intuition straight from the God. If I did not beleive that then I could not believe in prophets. What I do not accept is your disregard for knowledge.
So there is a clear stand of ability to appreciate/not appreciate; that is it!
Just make sure that YOU are clear of what I appreciate and don't appreciate as it seems you are not clear.
it does not mean i have issued statements against you and that you must immediately pounce upon me, losing your patience that made you feel as if i was impatient. It is a discuusion board. None can issue statements here.
Yes, this is a forum for debate, not arguing. You presented a point that knowledge is basically worthless, I totally disagree and I am debating you on this. You have yet to give a clear reason why you disregard knowledge even though the God has told us to seek increase in knowledge.
Look at what you state here
Quote
No, not a sense of superiority, I am just trying to figure out what causes you to say things that I naver said, this has happens way too many times for me to count. Just like above, you stated about me that I believe in Mind, while you believe in wisdom, and stated that we will meet one day. That is misleading because it leads one to believe that I don't believe in wisdom, only "mind", so I assume it is impatience on your part, why else would you offer a statement as if it is true, when I have said no such thing? I do not think you purposelly do it, so I remind you to be patient so that it does not continue to happen.Hmmmm.
Hmmmm what? I am telling you to please stop making assumptions about me and stating them as truths. Whats the hmmm for?
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Peace be upon you,
The God has told us to say "peace be upon you " to those who have faith and has told us to leave the ignorant with "Peace".
Yes, Peace comes from the God, does that mean we do not say it out our mouths? What then do we recite ANY of this redaing(quran) for? Why did the prophets and messengers SAY anything then? Do words have NO POWER? Perhaps you should abstain from speaking for three days as did Mary and Zacaraiah, THEN you would learn the POWER of words.
The Mind is a thing that PROGRAMMED, that is why the God says that He does not change the condition of a people UNTIL THEY CHANGE what is in thier MINDS.
What do you think would be the result of a scientific test where each day, a person was greeted with the words " Go to hell", and another with "Peace", do you think there will be a noticeable difference?
Ask the advertising agencies if words and pictures mean nothing, ask them why they spend millions for 30 seconds of NOTHING.
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If someone can get at widsom directly, that would be great, but how could one be so arrogant as to forget about those who DO need knowledge to get to wisdom? How can one be so arrogant to reject knowledge when the God tells us clearly to seek increse in knowledge?
idolfree,
We start with what knowledge is? what Wisdom is? Wherefrom the knowledge arise? Wherefrom the Wisdom arise? What is the use of knowledge? What is the reality of Wisdom? we take one question after another.Assuming that you agree and are interested, I start with knowledge.
Knowledge Whatever we are taught with objective materials is knowledge.
I ignore answering all the rest of your replies from below this point, for, we have to seriously settle some understanding before embarking on discussions.
drfazl
May be for you it is unacceptable; but you failed to appreciate that it is possible for any one to get at the wisdom without the aid of mind/knowledge who might have been endowed.
No, you are wrong, I do accept that one can get intuition straight from the God. If I did not beleive that then I could not believe in prophets. What I do not accept is your disregard for knowledge.
So there is a clear stand of ability to appreciate/not appreciate; that is it!
Just make sure that YOU are clear of what I appreciate and don't appreciate as it seems you are not clear.
it does not mean i have issued statements against you and that you must immediately pounce upon me, losing your patience that made you feel as if i was impatient. It is a discuusion board. None can issue statements here.
Yes, this is a forum for debate, not arguing. You presented a point that knowledge is basically worthless, I totally disagree and I am debating you on this. You have yet to give a clear reason why you disregard knowledge even though the God has told us to seek increase in knowledge.
Look at what you state here
Quote
No, not a sense of superiority, I am just trying to figure out what causes you to say things that I naver said, this has happens way too many times for me to count. Just like above, you stated about me that I believe in Mind, while you believe in wisdom, and stated that we will meet one day. That is misleading because it leads one to believe that I don't believe in wisdom, only "mind", so I assume it is impatience on your part, why else would you offer a statement as if it is true, when I have said no such thing? I do not think you purposelly do it, so I remind you to be patient so that it does not continue to happen.Hmmmm.
Hmmmm what? I am telling you to please stop making assumptions about me and stating them as truths. Whats the hmmm for?
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
Thats fine, I have no problem with taking it one question at a time.
Knowledge Whatever we are taught with objective materials is knowledge.
I understand "knowledge" as that which is KNOWN. In order to KNOW something, you must see/experience it. The word "science" was derived for the process that allows you to KNOW that you KNOW. It comes from "scire" which means "to KNOW".
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As'Salaamu Alaykum
We may utter phrases like... Insha Allah then neglect to act in a manner wherein we take responsibility for our actions in regards to whether something happens or not, why don't we say... "Bismillah", then act accordingly? Does anything happen that is not the will of Allah? If we say "Insha Allah", but do nothing to bring about the circumstances we are seeking to achieve (or hoping might happen) have we used Allah's name in vain?
Al-Qasas 2852-56
Allaeena taynhumu alkitba min qablihi hum bihi yu/minoon(a)
Those to whom We sent the Book before this (Jews and Christians),- they do believe in this (revelation)
Wa-i yutl AAalayhim qloo mann bihi innahu alaqqu min rabbin inn kunn min qablihi muslimeen(a)
And when it is recited to them, they say "We believe therein, for it is the Truth from our Lord indeed we have been Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will) from before this. (Qur'an)
Ol-ika yu/tawna ajrahum marratayni bim abaroo wayadraoona bi(a)lasanati a(l)ssayyi-ata wamimm razaqnhum yunfiqoon(a)
Twice will they be given their reward, for that they have persevered, that they avert Evil with Good, and that they spend out of what We have given them.
Wa-i samiAAoo allaghwa aAAraoo AAanhu waqloo lan aAAmlun walakum aAAmlukum salmun AAalaykum l nabtaghee aljhileen(a)
And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say "To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you we seek not the ignorant."
*They do not seek the ignorant, yet they wish peace upon them anywayInnaka l tahdee man ababta walkinna Allha yahdee man yasho wahuwa aAAlamu bi(a)lmuhtadeen(a)
It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom Hu will and Hu knows best those who receive guidance.
It is my understanding that there is no compulsion in the deen-i-Islam, that includes convincing each other of our individual understandings of Allah (Who, by the way, our intellects can never truly grasp). Sharing our understanding is a beautiful thing, but we cannot become so attached to our personal understanding that we feel a need to convince others, because as the ayat above states... "Allah guides those whom Hu wills". We need to not put so much trust in our intellects, trust the system and order of Allah as it is revealed in our hearts (a much better organ of perception when it has been kept clear).
Hud 1156
Innee tawakkaltu AAal Allhi rabbee warabbikum m min dbbatin ill huwa khiun biniyatih inna rabbee AAal irin mustaqeem(in)
"I put my trust in Allah, My Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but Hu hath grasp of its fore-lock. Verily, it is my Lord that is on a straight Path.
Everywhere! I turn I see the face of Allah. This is my understanding of the "reality" of Allah's Oneness, so everyone I greet... I greet with... "As'Salaamu Alaykum", with all due respect to the opinions stated here... Allah will be the judge of whether or not this is right or wrong.
Ma'Salaam,
Olusanya -
Peace be upon you Olusanya,
Thank you for bringing forth those verses. Good reminder.
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
I understand "knowledge" as that which is KNOWN. In order to KNOW something, you must see/experience it. The word "science" was derived for the process that allows you to KNOW that you KNOW. It comes from "scire" which means "to KNOW".Why do we have to go through a process to know that we already know? How do we know the truth of philosophy and spirituality through physical processes? Ofcourse see/experience is one form of understanding; but sense and execute is totally different form to which the said process is invalid.
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Peace be upon you Doctor,
Ihave nothing urther to say regarding the greeting of PEACE. Regarding seeing and knowledge, this discussion is going on in many other threads, so I desgibned the thread "knowledge vs. wisdom" for those discussions.
I am done here, PEACE to all.